Jackson the Thief? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inziladun · 06-02-2020, 09:14 AM

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I don't know if this has ever been discussed with PJ, but his LOTR films (the first two, anyway) seem to have borrowed quite a bit from Ralph Bakshi's 1978 movie covering 1 1/2 of the books. Many cameras angles and scene setups look very similar.

A side-by-side comparison.

Estelyn Telcontar · 06-02-2020, 10:34 AM

The scene with the Black Riders attacking the hobbits' room in the Prancing Pony was a very obvious one that I noticed the first time I saw Jackson's film! Definitely a quote...

Morthoron · 06-02-2020, 11:10 AM

Tricksy Jacksonses. We hates it forever!

Thinlómien · 06-05-2020, 03:31 PM

Thanks for linking the video, actually made me feel very nostalgic about both (series of) films!

The Bakshi film is ridiculous at times, but some of the visuals are very powerful.

I would ask though, how do you draw the line between plagiarism, deliberate homage/ intertextual reference, and simply something leaving such an impression on your imagination that you (possibly subconsciously) echo it in your own work?

Personally, I don't hold most of the parallels against Jackson&co (especially as some of these were a bit of a reach - there's a limited way of sensible options how to show say Gandalf arriving on a cart to Bag End), but a few are a bit jarringly similar, such as the hiding from the Black Rider under the roots of the tree. The Bakshi version manages to be much creepier, too!

Boromir88 · 06-08-2020, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Personally, I don't hold most of the parallels against Jackson&co (especially as some of these were a bit of a reach - there's a limited way of sensible options how to show say Gandalf arriving on a cart to Bag End), but a few are a bit jarringly similar, such as the hiding from the Black Rider under the roots of the tree. The Bakshi version manages to be much creepier, too!

I believe there's a special mention in the EE director's commentaries, when Jackson makes specific mention of liking that scene from Bakshi's cartoon.

Huinesoron · 06-09-2020, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I believe there's a special mention in the EE director's commentaries, when Jackson makes specific mention of liking that scene from Bakshi's cartoon.

I think I remember similar mentions (though I don't believe I ever listened to the commentaries), with both the tree root scene and the Riders stabbing the beds scene called out as deliberate homages.

I watched the start of the video, and wasn't all that impressed by the 'similarities' between the introductions. There was one shot (the Ring falling underwater, I think) which could have been a homage, and I guess putting it in as an intro at all could count, but other than that the shots were very different.

hS

06-02-2020, 09:14 AM	#1
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,038	Jackson the Thief? Sorry, couldn't resist. I don't know if this has ever been discussed with PJ, but his LOTR films (the first two, anyway) seem to have borrowed quite a bit from Ralph Bakshi's 1978 movie covering 1 1/2 of the books. Many cameras angles and scene setups look very similar. A side-by-side comparison. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

06-02-2020, 10:34 AM	#2
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	The scene with the Black Riders attacking the hobbits' room in the Prancing Pony was a very obvious one that I noticed the first time I saw Jackson's film! Definitely a quote... __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

06-02-2020, 11:10 AM	#3
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,510	Tricksy Jacksonses. We hates it forever! __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

06-05-2020, 03:31 PM	#4
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Thanks for linking the video, actually made me feel very nostalgic about both (series of) films! The Bakshi film is ridiculous at times, but some of the visuals are very powerful. I would ask though, how do you draw the line between plagiarism, deliberate homage/ intertextual reference, and simply something leaving such an impression on your imagination that you (possibly subconsciously) echo it in your own work? Personally, I don't hold most of the parallels against Jackson&co (especially as some of these were a bit of a reach - there's a limited way of sensible options how to show say Gandalf arriving on a cart to Bag End), but a few are a bit jarringly similar, such as the hiding from the Black Rider under the roots of the tree. The Bakshi version manages to be much creepier, too! __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris