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#1 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 118
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The Void
So just a passing question-if a mortal man was suspended in the void outside Eä how would he perceive it? Darkness? White? Just nothingness?
Thoughts? |
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#2 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,035
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Since the Void was Nothing, I don't know that even the existence of consciousness in any of the Children of Ilúvatar could be possible.
Though Men were not tied to Arda as Elves, the destination of their fea after physical death would be a similar plane, I think, and maybe the opposite of the Void.
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#3 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 118
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What I meant was is say you take a mortal man and teleport him to the Void what would he perceive if anything?
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#4 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,359
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A question of philosophy: if you put something into the Void, is it still a void if it's not void of everything?
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#5 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
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It depends on whether the fea could exist there. And that's just speculation. My opinion would be negative.
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#6 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 118
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Melkor searched the Void for the flame imperishable yet it was still void.
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#7 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
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Yes, and Melkor clearly could retain conscience and awareness there. Yet he was an Ainu, and the ability of a disembodied spirit to remain-self aware can not necessarily also be imparted to a mortal Man.
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#8 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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As usual, we can find interesting information, if not answers, in "Myths Transformed". In part (iii) of 'Notes on motives in the Silmarillion', Professor Tolkien defines the Void as "a conception of the state of Not-being, outside Creation or Eä":
Quote:
I say this as someone who has always imaged Melkor striding about in the darkness looking for something he cannot find. If the Void is 'the state of Not-being', and as we know it is timeless ("the Timeless Void"), then I suspect its existence is more conceptual than physical - separation from Eru and the Flame Imperishable. I also suspect that it might be something arguably metaphysical because the Void is nothingness. There is nothingness (the Void) and there is "thingness" (Eru, the Timeless Halls and Eä).
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#9 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 118
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I always imagined Melkor the same striding around an infinite black nothingness looking for a fire he could not find. It's easier to imagine that than it is to imagine it metaphysically.
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#10 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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Which is kind of the point, right?
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#11 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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It might also be worth pointing out that it's unclear which "Void" Morgoth was cast into at the end of the First Age.
Quote:
Ainuldinalë also implies that the Void has spatial dimensions: Quote:
I really think that to a degree the Void is beyond human comprehension... ![]()
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#12 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Quote:
Men were creatures of Eä. The Void, whether a physical or spiritual realm, would seem to be not of the material universe, as it was a negative of 'the World That Is'. As the mortal cannot comprehend the eternal, the 'real' lacks a capacity to understand the 'unreal'. Lunchtime philosophy 101. ![]()
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#13 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 118
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On a related cosmological note are there other worlds in Ea?
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#14 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Possibly, I would say. Why would Eru be in any way limited in creative power? But if those other world existed, none but their Creator could know.
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#15 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
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That was a good question you asked, Rhun charioteer, about whether there are other worlds in Eä. I agree with you, Inziladun, that only Eru would know...
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#16 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 118
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I always did consider it a fascinating question.
This is a bit of a more idle question-what do the Ainur who didn't descend into Ëa do? Sing to Iluvatar all the time(if time as a concept can be said to exist in the Timeless Halls). |
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#17 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
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Worship their Creator, and sit back to watch the Great Play he'd authored.
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