Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
06-25-2002, 02:12 PM | #1 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: England
Posts: 40
|
Celeborn
Why didn't Celeborn go to Elvenhome with Galadriel? And if he did, what did he mean when he said to Aragorn,
"May your doom be other than mine, and your treasure remain with you to the end!"
__________________
"Her name was Nenlauriel, but they called her Rûthwen, because her anger seemed ever constant and ever flowing from her grey eyes." |
06-25-2002, 02:23 PM | #2 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 713
|
Celeborn stayed in Middle Earth for some years before going to Valinor. But his words can have different meanings:
Maybe Cel was referring to his Kingdom. Loth-lorien diminished after the fading of the Three Rings, and eventually disappeared. Maybe he was thinking of his separation from Galadriel, since it would be many years before they saw each other again. Maybe he wished for Aragorn that Arwen would stay to the last days of their lives. He could be thinking of his daughter, Celebrian, whom he had not seen for many years. These theories are not very good, but all I can come up with right now. I had never thought of this before, and it is a very good topic. I hope somebody has a better answer.
__________________
Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer |
06-25-2002, 06:20 PM | #3 |
Sword of the Spirit
|
I thought they were VERY good answers, Daniel.
__________________
Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1 |
06-25-2002, 06:25 PM | #4 |
Wight
|
In that vein, he could also possibly have been referring to Gondor itself as the treasure that would remain with Aragorn until his end; it was unlikely that Aragorn would outlive his Kingdoms.
__________________
"I once spent two weeks in a tree trying to talk to a bird." --Puck, Brother Mine si man i yulma nin equantuva? [my blog] |
06-25-2002, 07:34 PM | #5 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX
Posts: 388
|
I wonder what Celeborn meant by "his doom". Did he think it a terrible thing to leave Middle Earth, something that Aragorn would never have to do?
__________________
"'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis |
06-25-2002, 09:21 PM | #6 |
Candle of the Marshes
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Flyover Country
Posts: 780
|
I think here "doom" may just be used in the old-fashioned sense, meaning fate. As in the early middle ages, when it was possible to compile "The Doomsday Book" without the name having sinister connotations. As for the central question, I'd always thought just that Galadriel was Celeborn's treasure and Arwen was Aragorn's, but could easily be wrong about that.
__________________
Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married. |
06-26-2002, 04:17 AM | #7 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: England
Posts: 40
|
Yes, that was what I assumed, Kalimac. I was curious as to why Celeborn and Galadriel would have to be parted.
__________________
"Her name was Nenlauriel, but they called her Rûthwen, because her anger seemed ever constant and ever flowing from her grey eyes." |
06-26-2002, 04:32 AM | #8 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 713
|
I have re-read the part, and come to some conclusions. In the Danish translation the word doom is not used, but fate. Some of the above posts are probably right about the proper meaning of the word doom. And Galadriel says, that Aragorn has come through darkness and achieved/received what he wanted. That means either that he has his kingdom, or his wife, whom he could only marry as the king of both Arnor and Gondor.
__________________
Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer |
06-26-2002, 08:27 AM | #9 |
Haunting Spirit
|
I think many people interpret "doom" wrong. These days is is like it is a bad thing. Doom only means your fate, which can be, but not always, a bad thing.
I think what Celeborn means by this is that he may not be parted from Arwen as he was parted from Galadriel.
__________________
*Where there is life, there is hope* |
06-26-2002, 11:52 AM | #10 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX
Posts: 388
|
Why was it necessary for him to be parted from Galadriel?
__________________
"'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis |
06-26-2002, 11:58 AM | #11 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 713
|
It wasn't necessary, but maybe he felt he had to stay until all of his subjects in Loth-lorien was gone. He was a king, after all, and may have felt some responsibility towards them. But if that is true, that raises the next question: Why did Galadriel leave him? Couldn't she wait?
__________________
Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer |
06-26-2002, 03:44 PM | #12 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: May 2002
Location: stronghold of the North
Posts: 390
|
It's my very personal impression, but while reading I didn't get an impression that Galadriel and Celeborn were very close. They had stayed together since the First Age. I just can't think of any other elven family which survived that long. (Am I mistaken?)And so couldn't some feelings be gone with time?
Perhaps they were good co-rulers (??), but even in this aspect Galadriel seems to me more powerful: she not Celeborn wears Nenya. So just perhaps she acted like a strong and independent woman would, and allowed her husband to decide for himself. Now, why did he decide to stay? Galadriel was returning to the land where she was born; but Celeborn was of Sindar and felt more at home in Middle Earth. And besides, as Daniel has written, he must have felt responsible for his kingdom and subjects.
__________________
Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока... |
06-27-2002, 06:23 AM | #13 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 328
|
Didn't he go to Aman later on?
__________________
I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it! |
06-27-2002, 06:30 AM | #14 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 713
|
yes, he did, when he was tired of Middle Earth and wanted to see Galadriel again. Despite of many people's opinion, I think they had a happy marriage.
__________________
Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer |
06-27-2002, 01:41 PM | #15 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 328
|
I think Galadriel went before him because she was too tired of MiddleEarth to stay any longer.
__________________
I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it! |
06-27-2002, 04:46 PM | #16 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In a box with a fox
Posts: 1,347
|
I think that Galadriel had to leave with the other ring-bearers. The time was already decided, Celeblorn probebly had some stuff that he had to do before he left. At least one of the leaders of Lothlorien should be the last to leave. Think about how long it took Frodo to be ready to leave! Isn't Galadriel a whole lot older then Celeborn? That would explain why she got tired of ME before he did.
__________________
"Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once." |
06-28-2002, 02:46 AM | #17 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 713
|
I doubt Galadriel is older than Celeborn, then it is not much, at least by elven standard. They both meet in the early, in Menegroth, and Celeborn is a relative of Thingol, so he is very old. But you may be right that she had to leave, because she was a Ringbearer, and they were leaving at the same time.
__________________
Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer |
06-30-2002, 10:55 PM | #18 |
Pile O'Bones
|
Honestly, I never thought more about it than the general doom of the elves, as in how they were destined to go to Aman, to live forever and yet to be weary of immortality before all was said and done. But Daniel Telcontar had good points as well.
__________________
"From this point on, she whispered to him earlier, we will either find or lose our souls." The English Patient "But you ARE a person, and I can't say I'm fond of that" -Nny "Over the Moutains of the Moon, down the valley of the Shadow, Ride, boldly ride, the shade replied-if you seek for Eldorado!"-Edgar Allen Poe I am dearprudence64 on AOL. IM me. |
07-01-2002, 02:45 PM | #19 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX
Posts: 388
|
Quote:
__________________
"'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis |
|
|
|