WW CV: They Should Make a Movie About This! (Game Thread)

[Inziladun]

The helicopter swooped in low as it approached the mountaintop, the setting sun hidden behind jagged peaks. As the aircraft reached the metal dome and hovered, the dome split in two, the sides sliding downward with the whine of hydraulics. The pilot brought the vehicle slowly down, until it touched down on a small pad jutting from the side of the dome. As the 12 persons exited the craft, they noticed what appeared to be a large satellite-type dish a bit lower in the dome. As soon as all were off the helicopter, it took off. Unexpectedly, the platform on which the group were standing began to lower itself at a rapid pace. The halves of the dome simultaneously whined toward one another to close the opening. As the platform reached the floor, the bemused group could not help reflecting on how they'd come to be in such a strange situation.
Many months before, members of the Barrow Downs Tolkien forum had received unexpected Private Messages from a new Forum Member, hatethemovies123. "Tolkien book-fans wanted for an important project! Great reward and lasting renown await! E-mail pjisanorc@graggle.com."
And they had done so, for one reason or another. Now, as the floor of the facility drew level with them, their odd, lab-coated host stood waiting.

THE GAME HAS NOT STARTED YET

[Inziladun]

'Greetings to you all!", he said. I am Professor Inzil, and I am the one who invited you here.
The group looked around to see various computer consoles, tables littered with electronic components, and two telephone booth-sized chrome-plated cylinders at opposite sides of the room, each with its own computer console. A label on one read "RADAGAST", and the second, "WINGÉD BALROG". A shelf on the wall held many vials filled with liquids of varying colors and viscosities. One, set apart, had a large red "X" on its label, though what that label said could not be made out.
'Well, let me give you the score', he began. 'First, I have asked you here to assist me with something. I am planning to use the dish up there,' he pointed, 'to end any possible success or indeed, any memory of the horrible movies of J.R.R. Tolkien's works that have been foisted on us all by greedy, blackhearted persons.' He paused for a moment, studying the faces before him.
'The plan is to fire a beam into space that will then utilize the satellites circling the globe to transmit the beam back to the surface. The beam should have the effects of permanently removing from memory that fact that any Tolkien-related movies exist, and will simultaneously stimulate the cerebral cortex of the brain to cause the subject to utterly abhor the very idea of any movies connected with Tolkien in the future.'
Confusion, disbelief, and amusement seemed to be at war in the group.
'Wait a second,' said Shasta. 'Wasn't there something about a "great reward"'?
'Ah, well, I don't exactly have a lot of money,' replied the Professor. 'But the service you'll be rendering to mankind is beyond price!'
'How'd you get the money to do all this'?, asked Kitanna.
'Various means,' he said. 'For one thing, I've been helping a large and well-known company test safer food additives. That's some of them on the shelf over there. It was actually a failure of one of those that led to the idea behind this project.'
'What about those two things?' asked Lommy, pointing at the metal cylinders.
'Other projects', the Professor said. 'BALROG is a prototype teleporter, but there have been some snags with it. And I get sidetracked...ADHD is a terrible thing. Anyway, this process should take a few days. I will tell you that we are totally isolated here. There is no cell phone service, nor any communication with the outside. The helicopter on which you arrived will return at a set time to bring supplies. There are plenty of sleeping bags for you to bed down with, and more than enough food to see us through.'
Suddenly, a loud "BAAAA" was heard from behind a windowed door at the side.
'What's that?', cried Sally.
'Oh, goats!' replied the professor. I like goat's milk. And there are some chickens out there too. Eggs are nature's most complete source of protein!'
'So,' he ended. 'There it is. Get yourselves settled, and we'll look to starting tomorrow'.

As the group slowly wandered away, they failed to see one of their number casually pocket the vial with the red "X" from its place on the shelf.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Three members of the group walked together, unseen by the others.
'I think this is insane,' one groused. 'I like the movies!'
'Yeah!' said another. 'Viggo Mortensen was awesome! And the CGI Smaug in The Hobbit is just sick!'
'Well,' said the third, 'we don't have to participate. In fact, we could try to derail this!"
'Of course we could!' muttered the first. 'All we need to do is get rid of Professor Nutso, then the rest will be no problem.'
As the three walked, their minds were already pondering the issue.

IT IS NOW NIGHT 1.

Dreamer may dream, Baddies may PM.

The "Living"
Nerwen
Sally
Coppermirror
Loslote
Kitanna
Lommy
Legate
Nogrod
Shasta
Greenie
Kath
Boro

[Inziladun]

Professor Inzil was up late. Dogged by a mixture of anticipation and anxiety, sleep was out of the question. He was looking through his notes, scouring them for signs of any unforeseen problems. As was his habit, he walked aimlessly about as he read. Absorbed, he failed to notice the soft footsteps behind him. Before he could shout, rough hands shoved him into the opening in the BALROG.
'Now Professor,' said a soft voice. 'You've been working too hard. Take a vacation.' 'Don't worry, said another voice. You're going to the best place we can think of.' 'Actually, it's the worst,' chuckled a third, who typed something on BALROG's keypad, then hurriedly pressed a red button marked "send".
With a crackling noise and a shower of sparks from the console, a yellow light engulfed the cylinder. The Professor's notebook remained on the floor outside, dropped and, for the moment, forgotten.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the morning, the BALROG was discovered, partly burned and smoking. Looking into it, the concerned group saw a white lab coat, also partially burned. Of its owner there was no sign. The attached console was sputtering, but a display intermittently blinked the word "Cleveland".
'Wow,' said Legate. 'This was the teleporter, right?'
'Yep,' said Coppermirror. 'But didn't he say there had been some problems with it? He surely wouldn't have done this on his own.'
Just then Kath spied the notebook on the floor. 'Hm,' she said. She looked through it for a minute. 'It looks like there are sections where there are notes on the various things he was working on. Under Balrog, one page has a "3" that kind of scrawls down the page.' She showed it to the others.
'What's that mean?' asked Nogrod. 'Was he trying to say three people were involved, or what?'
'And what's the deal with this machine anyway?' said Greenie. 'Is he dead or is he in Cleveland?'
'What's the difference?' said Boro. Mumbled agreement came from everyone. Now they must decide what to do to confront the menace in their midst.

IT IS NOW DAY 1

The "Living"
Nerwen
Sally
Coppermirror
Loslote
Kitanna
Lommy
Legate
Nogrod
Shasta
Greenie
Kath
Boro

The "Dead"
Professor Inzil

[Coppermirror]

If he's alive, I wonder which Cleveland Professor Inzil's gone to? Looking at it on Wikipedia, there are a whole bunch of places with that name. Come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure where we are right now either, other than that it has mountains. I must have slept through that part of the flight.

My goodness, I haven't played this game since September last year. I do regret having to drop out from the Spambot Apocalypse game before it started.

[Boromir88]

If he's actually in Cleveland he's as good as dead anyway. Since, I hail from the area I'm completely justified in poking fun at the smelly armpit of a city. If anyone else tries to disparage the place they'll be thrown into the Cuyahoga River (at least it's a little cleaner now, which means it's not as easy to catch on fire).

[satansaloser2005]

Cleveland? Goodness gracious. We may never find our poor professor.

Then again, at least it's not Springfield. Which Springfield, you ask? Exactly.

[Loslote]

I'm not entirely certain what I should be doing in this situation. To be honest, I never expected to make it this far - I consider having survived Night One to be a triumph, and I would like to thank everyone who ever voted for me for this success. Thank you, thank you!

Of course, my gracious speech would probably have had a greater impact were it not delivered in a sealed-off mountain with no hope of escape, but you work with what you've got, I suppose.

Speaking of, I've got a great idea for solving this little mystery in no time. Who here actually liked the movies? Please raise your hand - I'm sorry to say, I'm afraid you might be one of the murderers! A nasty shock, I'm sure, but better to face these things head-on than live in denial, don't you know. You're welcome, everyone, case closed!

[Nerwen]

Such a terrible, terrible thing to happen to the poor Professor- regardless of whether his fate was death or one of the world's large assortment of Clevelands.

Now, we all know what moviephiles are like. We've seen them camped outside the box office for hours... days... before "their" film premieres, just so they can be the first to see it. Could a moviephile resist jumping in to post on this thread the moment it opens? Basic moviephile psychology says "no".

Therefore I say we should be paying *very* close attention to Coppermirror, Boro and Sally.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, well, well. I hope Professor Inzil will be all right, I mean, at least the BALROG cannot transfer people through alternate universes. Imagine if he ended up in movie version of Middle-Earth...

Anyway, for the time being then we have to take matters into our own hands. Goat milk, anyone?

As for otherwise... I guess I do not need to prove my hatred for the movies... I could quote one of my speeches from times ago, but then I think it would make my rambling here even longer than usual, and I am afraid in the presence of such advanced scientific devices, it might accidentally trigger some unprecedented effect. Such as making forum posts longer than one forum page.

[Coppermirror]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If anyone else tries to disparage the place they'll be thrown into the Cuyahoga River (at least it's a little cleaner now, which means it's not as easy to catch on fire).

...Is that a joke, or is the Cuyahoga River really known for catching on fire?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Then again, at least it's not Springfield. Which Springfield, you ask? Exactly.

I don't know, at least there doesn't seem to be a volcano or a tall mountain named after Springfield the way there is with Cleveland. In any case, it doesn't look as if we can get out of here to look for him.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Speaking of, I've got a great idea for solving this little mystery in no time. Who here actually liked the movies?

Uh, well... But it gave me a really nasty ache in the hip from having to sit still that long.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

regardless of whether his fate was death or one of the world's large assortment of Clevelands.

Maybe it was all the world's Clevelands at once. I'm sure the Professor will have quite a tale to tell if and when he gets back here.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

and I am afraid in the presence of such advanced scientific devices, it might accidentally trigger some unprecedented effect. Such as making forum posts longer than one forum page.

Well, we do need to be ever-vigilant, lest we incur the wrath of the vile Serverman, Lord of the Code, once more. But a concise summary would probably be safe.

I'm going off to bed now; see you all in the morning.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

...Is that a joke, or is the Cuyahoga River really known for catching on fire?

Yes

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Uh, well... But it gave me a really nasty ache in the hip from having to sit still that long.

Ah! What did I say? A confession!

[Thinlómien]

Okay, first things first.

I AM PLAYING WEREWOLF AIEEEEE OUAGHAKDDDO GICT XGNYCCBNX IT'S BEEN TOO LONG KPOHOGSUIYDTYRSYDJDYJXKNCHCMNGCZY CJGHC JBJKVB<DBNA.



Okay, now that I got it off my chest, I'm off to business. What business, you may ask, as there's been nothing but banter and Nerwen jokingly reviving the tradition of suspecting those who post first.

So let me make a couple of predictions about how the Day1 will proceed after this utterly typical beginning:

Nerwen will miss the vote.
Kath will miss the entire Day.
Legate will get into posting novel-length stuff by the deadline.
Loslote (or Kitanna) will be lynched.
Nogrod will be uncharacteristically quiet (okay, you can't really credit me with being a psychic if I get this right, I happen to know he has a busy day in RL).
Speaking of psychics, Shasta will use half of his posts for praising Nerwen (and vice versa, but he always seems to be the one to start).

Any additions to my little list?

Oh, and better say it earlier than later: the deadline is 5am Finnish time, so you're probably not going to see much of me, Legate or Greenie around the DL time (not speaking for Nogrod because that man is crazy).

[Boromir88]

What about the maniac? Are we talking movie-maniac? Professor-maniac? Or just a straight up maniac?

I interpret the role as a wild card with no allegiance...if so, then the maniac only helps us as an unknown, because the wolves aren't going to kill a revealed maniac. But as an unknown, there's still a danger we lynch the maniac. And it sets up the possibility of wolves trying to fake maniacal tendencies, knowing we won't want to lynch the maniac.

[Boromir88]

Nerwen's link on the Cuyahoga is brokey. But no joke Copper...it's been on fire, multiple times:

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

What about the maniac? Are we talking movie-maniac? Professor-maniac? Or just a straight up maniac?

I interpret the role as a wild card with no allegiance...if so, then the maniac only helps us as an unknown, because the wolves aren't going to kill a revealed maniac. But as an unknown, there's still a danger we lynch the maniac. And it sets up the possibility of wolves trying to fake maniacal tendencies, knowing we won't want to lynch the maniac.

Interesting, I simply read the maniac as a randomized version of the hunter.

Can Inzil clarify if the maniac wins with the village or on his own (I assume not with the moviephiles, for heaven's sake) or if this is classified information?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Interesting, I simply read the maniac as a randomized version of the hunter.

Yeah, I also understood it as "I am the Hunter, but I will take my revenge on you whoever you are if you lynch me during the Day." Or rather, there had been many versions of Hunter who operated like this, technically the only difference here being that the Maniac does not choose anybody to "hunt". And note that the Day lynch still means the Maniac can take down a Wolf, if a Wolf is among those who voted him/her, but of course you have the element of randomness there. (Pointing this out since my initial "brain-shortcut" equation was "kills Wolf during night, kills innocents during Day", which is not entirely true, although of course still preferable not to lynch at all. So in that respect, it really IS similar to the Hunter. And since there was no mention of any special rules, I simply assume the Maniac is innocent.)

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boro

Nerwen's link on the Cuyahoga is brokey.

Weird– the link seems to be formatted correctly, but it just won’t work.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Interesting, I simply read the maniac as a randomized version of the hunter.

Can Inzil clarify if the maniac wins with the village or on his own (I assume not with the moviephiles, for heaven's sake) or if this is classified information?

I was also thinking of it as a sort of Hunter-variant, as that’s how Zil originally described it– but the concept has changed since.

Unfortunately Zil is rather cagey about the details (no doubt on purpose).

Originally Posted by Zil

Excellent! The target is 12 players, to allow for three baddies.

I altered the Maniac a bit, taking out the correlation with a Hunter. He really isn't a Hunter, since he takes no active role in who dies. As a matter of fact, I probably will keep to myself who the Maniac is, so the person himself will be surprised.

Now, the narration seems to indicate three moviephiles, i.e. the “three baddies”. Therefore I think the Maniac can’t be on their side, or he’d be a fourth “baddie". Also I don’t think he could be actively opposed to the village on his own account, since that would also shift the role into “evil” territory– cf werebears.

Then of course there’s the possibility that the Maniac isn’t aware of his role, which complicates things even more.

EDIT:X’d with Legate.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Can Inzil clarify if the maniac wins with the village or on his own (I assume not with the moviephiles, for heaven's sake) or if this is classified information?

The Maniac is like a Hunter in that they are in with the village. Basically an Ordo with an added quantity of unpredictability surrounding their death.

[Nerwen]

Thank you, Disembodied Voice.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Such a terrible, terrible thing to happen to the poor Professor- regardless of whether his fate was death or one of the world's large assortment of Clevelands.
[/B]

Maybe each body part went to a different Cleveland. A spleen in Cleveland, OH. An arm in Cleveland, GA. Perhaps a gallbladder in Cleveland, NC. What a disgusting prospect.

Originally Posted by Lottie

Who here actually liked the movies? Please raise your hand - I'm sorry to say, I'm afraid you might be one of the murderers!

*Tentatively raises a hand* Before you throw rotten produce at me, I like the LOTR as movies, not as adaptations. *ducks a blow to the head* Though I do hate TH with a burning passion. Please let that be my saving grace.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Loslote (or Kitanna) will be lynched.

Woe is me.

Lots of talk about the Maniac. But it looks like the role is a wildcard innocent. A chaotic good perhaps? Or maybe chaotic evil if the Maniac chose to align with the wolves. (Oh my, I wish my friend had never taught me how to play D&D. It's infiltrating my life.)

On an unrelated topic can we throw my neighbors to the moviephiles. 'Cause the bass on their sound system is shaking my desk. :/

[Inziladun]

Apologies for not noting this sooner, but votes should be like this: ++Inzil. That's for ease of counting.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

So let me make a couple of predictions about how the Day1 will proceed after this utterly typical beginning:

Nerwen will miss the vote.
Kath will miss the entire Day.
Legate will get into posting novel-length stuff by the deadline.
Loslote (or Kitanna) will be lynched.
Nogrod will be uncharacteristically quiet (okay, you can't really credit me with being a psychic if I get this right, I happen to know he has a busy day in RL).
Speaking of psychics, Shasta will use half of his posts for praising Nerwen (and vice versa, but he always seems to be the one to start).

As a visitor from the future, I can confirm that all of these will happen. Oh, wait. Not the time travel theme this game. Disregard. You're still probably correct though.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The Maniac is like a Hunter in that they are in with the village. Basically an Ordo with an added quantity of unpredictability surrounding their death.

That was informative, yet strangely unsettling.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Maybe each body part went to a different Cleveland. A spleen in Cleveland, OH. An arm in Cleveland, GA. Perhaps a gallbladder in Cleveland, NC. What a disgusting prospect.

Is it just me, or does Kitanna know too much about various Clevelands? Quite suspicious indeed.

[Kath]

Lommy ... nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Prediction = wrong. I'm here!

Inzil said the Maniac is aware of their role in the Admin Thread, and I would agree with Legate that the Maniac isn't counted in the baddie count given their variable role.

[Nogrod]

Okay. Finally here. It's been a couple of really crazy days - and what Lommy said earlier rings a truth: I'm not going to be very active toDay (too tired of trying to get a real grasp - if there is anything to grasp with this number of posts anyway) - and the DL really is 5AM so all the Finns will most probably vote earlyish this time around.

The only things that kind of give off a slight ping on the radar thus far are:

1. Nerwen's early gun-happiness - which could be just a way of trying to get the ball rolling and therefore laudable.

2. How Boro's important point was totally lost under a more or less odd discussion of whether the maniac is playing for the goodies or baddies... where the former, I think, was the obvious answer - and seems to be it. But what Boro said merits repeating: as we don't want to lynch the maniac (the danger for us is in lynching her/him) but want her/him killed by the wolves by Night (to take one of them with her/him for sure) - the wolves might like to impersonate the maniac trying to avoid lynching that way.

So let's be extra careful with that.

Other than those things, I feel I have little to say right now. But I'll sit back and relax and try to come with something / anything more constructive in a moment - even if it doesn't seem too probable with this little to draw conclusions or speculate upon.

[A Little Green]

Almost did a Kath but didn't, thanks to Lommy for reminding me we had started! Anyway, I'm super tired so I will unfortunately have to be quite brief toDay, but should be around more toMorrow if I make it that far.

Right-o. As far as I can tell -

Nerwen discusses both Clevelands and Maniacs. Also mentions the "rule of three", which I suppose somebody has to do in every game.
Sally also mostly banters this far, and calls Inzil's rules clarification "informative, yet strangely unsettling". Something there?
Coppermirror remains on the Cleveland sector for now.
Loslote, while not discussing Cleveland, has only posted one early banter post toDay, I assume she'll be back.
Kitanna confuses me because I got the impression that she posted a lot of substance even though she mainly answered banterish posts and commented shortly on the Maniac.
Lommy adequately summarised an average Day 1 and puts in a healthy Lommy amount of AIEEEs and exclamation marks. But she's also the one to ask Inzil for clarification about the Maniac.
Legate has not posted a single novel yet! Instead, one banter about goats and technology and some other confusing stuff, and one post speculating about the Maniac. I don't really understand his "brain-shortcut" (though love that word!!) but it's probably not very relevant since it's related to speculation on a topic that was later clarified by the mod.
Nogrod hasn't posted yet but he's sitting across the table from me and typing forcefully so I bet his post will appear before mine.
Shasta isn't here either, I hope he knows the game is on!
Greenie is happy to be playing werewolf!
Kath is cute. She's also sensible about the Maniac.
Boro gets the credit for the first fully on-topic post on the thread, ie. rules speculation on the Maniac. His original interpretation is rather different from mine, and apparently that of many others as well. Could be he's just an independent thinker (we know he is), could be he's scheming, could be he was trying to provoke discussion? Anyhow I'm not worried about him at the moment.


EDIT: x-ed with Noggie

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nog

1. Nerwen's early gun-happiness - which could be just a way of trying to get the ball rolling and therefore laudable.

I could be wrong but I'd guess her "gun-happiness" was just a normal "rule of three" post - obligatory Day 1 banter.

Originally Posted by Nog

2. How Boro's important point was totally lost under a more or less odd discussion of whether the maniac is playing for the goodies or baddies... where the former, I think, was the obvious answer - and seems to be it. But what Boro said merits repeating: as we don't want to lynch the maniac (the danger for us is in lynching her/him) but want her/him killed by the wolves by Night (to take one of them with her/him for sure) - the wolves might like to impersonate the maniac trying to avoid lynching that way.

So let's be extra careful with that.

Yes, this is a valid point and, I think, an important one, but the thing is - how does the Maniac behave? How do you impersonate a Maniac? I mean, if the Maniac plays for the village they'd want to get Night-killed, right? Which would mean they might try to impersonate the Seer, which would mean the wolves would try to impersonate the Maniac who tries to impersonate the Seer who tries to impersonate... I mean, maybe you others can follow this, but I can't, at least not this tired. Anyway what I'm saying is that catching someone "impersonating the Maniac" is easier said than done.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Kath

Lommy ... nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Prediction = wrong. I'm here!

Darn, then I guess I can't steal Shasta's mantle just yet!

Glad to see the discussion (slowly) starting. It's also getting late here, but at least almost everybody has posted something already.

I'm not sure what to make of Boro's and Nogrod's underlined worry about wolves posing as the maniac. How do you do that except by fake revealing anyway? (And I see that as possibly being more beneficial to the villagers in the long run -

ACTUALLY WAIT

Wouldn't it make the most sense for the maniac to reveal RIGHT NOW?

Ta da, we have a known innocent. Or, if a wolf rises to the bait and fake reveals, the worst thing that can happen is that toDay we lynch two innocents and toMorrow we lynch a wolf, which is still a good scenario for us.

What say you?*

(* given the nature of the game, I should probably apologise for quoting movie!Aragorn)


edit: xed with Greenie's later post

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Yes, this is a valid point and, I think, an important one, but the thing is - how does the Maniac behave? How do you impersonate a Maniac? I mean, if the Maniac plays for the village they'd want to get Night-killed, right? Which would mean they might try to impersonate the Seer, which would mean the wolves would try to impersonate the Maniac who tries to impersonate the Seer who tries to impersonate...

Love you!

And you're right. It is hard to say. But...

But there might arise a situations where it would not be that complicated. I was not calling for a definitive plan to follow certain kind of acts but to keep our eyes open where that might be plausible (naturally it's not wise to specualte too much on those beforehand).


EDIT: X'd with Lommylings

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

There isn't really much to go on with, indeed, I will just observe on the observations, then. I guess it would be interesting, in the light of any future events, to see the interactions or how people perceive others here.

I like Nogrod's pointing out of the thing Boro said about the Maniac (that WWs might be impresonating him/her), but then again since the Mod has confirmed how the role works, it's essentially the same thing as impersonating any Gifted in any normal game. But of course, it's probably the best way for a Wolf to avoid lynch. Unless they also want to flush out a Seer and pretend that they are the Seer instead. I guess that might bring some interesting dilemmas to the Wolves who are under threat of lynching and consider reveal, which might play nicely to the village's hand.

I also like Greenie's summary of people, but rather for its amusement value. The only thing I find remarkable is her "buddying-up" attitude towards Boro and (very, very slightly) Kath. But I guess that would be just more interesting in hindsight if the situation seemed like it was relevant (e.g. Greenie turning out to be a Wolf or somesuch), for now there's really nothing much overall.

I am definitely going to post here still later, in the hope of reading something more before that and thus being able to make some more reasonable list of everyone and get some ideas from it. I wanted to say "third time's the charm", except that I think that would be already my fourth post, so anyway, before the next time I post I just hope more people would show up so I can post something substantial based on that. Also, with other fellow Finns, not going to stay up too late. So hope people just are around and post a bit...

EDIT: x-ed with second Greenie, Lommy and Nogrod

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Or, if a wolf rises to the bait and fake reveals, the worst thing that can happen is that toDay we lynch two innocents and toMorrow we lynch a wolf, which is still a good scenario for us.

To clarify, by "toDay we lynch two innocents" I mean that we lynch an innocent who takes another innocent with him/her - and by the way the maniac might even take a wolf with him/her. (Now that I'm thinking a little further I'm also aware the maniac could take the seer or ranger with him/her too but personally I think it would be worth the risk because we'd still get one wolf down.)

edit: xed with both posts

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lommy

ACTUALLY WAIT

Wouldn't it make the most sense for the maniac to reveal RIGHT NOW?

Ta da, we have a known innocent. Or, if a wolf rises to the bait and fake reveals, the worst thing that can happen is that toDay we lynch two innocents and toMorrow we lynch a wolf, which is still a good scenario for us.

What say you?*

(* given the nature of the game, I should probably apologise for quoting movie!Aragorn)

It comes down to whether we value a known innocent over possibly having the Maniac take down a wolf. I can't say.


EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Leg and Lom.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

It comes down to whether we value a known innocent over possibly having the Maniac take down a wolf. I can't say.

Exactly my thoughts as well.

The maniac is a powerful weapon I'd rather not lose - and would be inclined to suspect anyone who suggest us to lose her/his ability to kill a wolf. A known innocent early in the game is just one person we should not vote but whose view of things is as imperfect and indecisive as anyones.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

It comes down to whether we value a known innocent over possibly having the Maniac take down a wolf. I can't say.

Well that was so simply put that it twists my brain.

Arggh now that I'm thinking this further the game is (lovelily) frustratingly complex.

Because yes, it would be the best if the maniac is killed by the wolves.

But then again, how big are the chances that s/he gets targeted by the wolves? Like between 1/3 and 1/2. (Whereas a known innocent would be an immediate benefit, especially if it was accompanied by a known wolf.)

And now I wanted to say, scratch my plan, the maniac should just reveal if s/he's in danger of getting lynched, and suddenly I see where the concern about wolves pulling the maniac card is coming from.

Geez.

Well, scratch my plan anyway I guess, although in the end it's of course up to the maniac him/herself.

Werewolf is hard. Maybe I should shut up because I feel like flip-flopping is going to come out of my mouth (or keyboard) - if it already didn't.


edit: xed with Nogrod

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I could be wrong but I'd guess her "gun-happiness" was just a normal "rule of three" post - obligatory Day 1 banter.

Yeah, personally I saw it also too just as Day 1 start banter, especially since it was really one of the first posts and nothing had happened before (and everything else in the posts around it was just Cleveland-banter).

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Yes, this is a valid point and, I think, an important one, but the thing is - how does the Maniac behave? How do you impersonate a Maniac? I mean, if the Maniac plays for the village they'd want to get Night-killed, right? Which would mean they might try to impersonate the Seer, which would mean the wolves would try to impersonate the Maniac who tries to impersonate the Seer who tries to impersonate... I mean, maybe you others can follow this, but I can't, at least not this tired. Anyway what I'm saying is that catching someone "impersonating the Maniac" is easier said than done.

In shorter and clearer version, WWs might only want to impersonate a Maniac by saying "I am a Maniac!", or that's how I see it. Simply a way e.g. for a known Wolf to escape the noose, just like they have been doing with Seers for ages.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

ACTUALLY WAIT

Wouldn't it make the most sense for the maniac to reveal RIGHT NOW?

Ta da, we have a known innocent. Or, if a wolf rises to the bait and fake reveals, the worst thing that can happen is that toDay we lynch two innocents and toMorrow we lynch a wolf, which is still a good scenario for us.

What say you?*

(* given the nature of the game, I should probably apologise for quoting movie!Aragorn)

Hey, that actually might not be a bad idea at all! Of course it means exposing an innocent (a known innocent), but it

a) leaves the one known innocent alive for at least the time being
b) eliminates the risk of accidentally shooting down two innocents by lynching the Maniac during Day,
c) puts the WWs in front of the decision: to either counter-reveal or just leave the village with extra security and known innocent,
d) the WWs have to decide whether they want to "make a trade" of one of their members during Night-killing the Maniac, or just leave the known innocent (a powerful force) around. It also leaves the Ranger free to guard someone else, because the Maniac can in the worst case just "trade" him/herself. Sounds fair!

By all means... sounds really good. Gotta think about it for a bit still, but sounds really good!

EDIT: x-ed since my last

[satansaloser2005]

Beg pardon. I just have to get this out of my system.

As for the penguin's plan, I think it's a little too risky, honestly. We have zero control over who the maniac takes down, and while losing the maniac could also eliminate a wolf, it could also cost us our seer or our ranger (or, knowing my luck, me, which would be just as tragic ). Sure, we would have a known innocent and eliminate a bad lynch target, but the wolves may decide it's a good idea to target them straight away. Why would the baddies want to kick the bomb? Frankly, their odds of survival are better now.

The earlier the maniac is killed, the more likely their random target won't be a wolf (the wolves are 25% of the group right now, which will almost certainly grow as the game progresses). As the group gets smaller, killing the maniac becomes a bigger risk to the wolves, so if anything, I think exposing the maniac toDay would only lead to their death toNight, and I don't think that's a good idea.

I may have thought about this a little too much.


x'd since 29, as I was distracted by food

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

since the Mod has confirmed how the role works, it's essentially the same thing as impersonating any Gifted in any normal game.

Well yes, and no.

I think the maniac is actually very interesting character in this game because s/he can deliver a certain kill if the wolves try to get at her/him during the Night. That is not usual. Also - as the other side of the coin - s/he is dangerous to us exactly lynched: Legate actually himself mentioned earlier thet the manic can take down a wolf as well if lyched - which is true, but something I don't think lessens the danger considerably.

So this maniac is - to my mind - no regular game-character and thus impersonating the maniac would have different dynamics from impersonating some other roles more regular to the game.


EDIT: Sally: Check the rules! The maniac delivers a certain wolf-kill if targeted by Night!

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

A known innocent early in the game is just one person we should not vote but whose view of things is as imperfect and indecisive as anyones.

Agreed, although a known innocent the wolves can't kill is a definite asset especially towards the end of the game and could be the tie-breaker.

Originally Posted by Legate

d) the WWs have to decide whether they want to "make a trade" of one of their members during Night-killing the Maniac, or just leave the known innocent (a powerful force) around. It also leaves the Ranger free to guard someone else, because the Maniac can in the worst case just "trade" him/herself. Sounds fair!

Unfortunately, I don't think the wolves would want to trade a wolf for a known innocent.


edit: xed with Sally and Nog

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Beg pardon. I just have to get this out of my system.

As for the penguin's plan, I think it's a little too risky, honestly. We have zero control over who the maniac takes down, and while losing the maniac could also eliminate a wolf, it could also cost us our seer or our ranger (or, knowing my luck, me, which would be just as tragic ). Sure, we would have a known innocent and eliminate a bad lynch target, but the wolves may decide it's a good idea to target them straight away. Why would the baddies want to kick the bomb? Frankly, their odds of survival are better now.

The earlier the maniac is killed, the more likely their random target won't be a wolf (the wolves are 25% of the group right now, which will almost certainly grow as the game progresses). As the group gets smaller, killing the maniac becomes a bigger risk to the wolves, so if anything, I think exposing the maniac toDay would only lead to their death toNight, and I don't think that's a good idea.

I may have thought about this a little too much.


x'd since 29, as I was distracted by food

You should ignore all of this nonsense. I had it in my head that the maniac's ability was random regardless of when they were killed, but upon looking at the role again, I see I was mistaken. Whoops.

Well, ignore all of it but the link. That's still relevant.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

2. How Boro's important point was totally lost under a more or less odd discussion of whether the maniac is playing for the goodies or baddies... where the former, I think, was the obvious answer - and seems to be it. But what Boro said merits repeating: as we don't want to lynch the maniac (the danger for us is in lynching her/him) but want her/him killed by the wolves by Night (to take one of them with her/him for sure) - the wolves might like to impersonate the maniac trying to avoid lynching that way.

Since the Maniac's role pretty much revolves around dying to fullfill the role, who is to say they'll align with the village? A hunter can at least chose who they think is evil, Maniac is subject to the whims of the mod-god.

I kind of see the Maniac as a potential cobbler/hunter hybrid, a wildcard as Boro put it.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Wouldn't it make the most sense for the maniac to reveal RIGHT NOW?

Ta da, we have a known innocent. Or, if a wolf rises to the bait and fake reveals, the worst thing that can happen is that toDay we lynch two innocents and toMorrow we lynch a wolf, which is still a good scenario for us.

Interesting...

Originally Posted by Lommy

To clarify, by "toDay we lynch two innocents" I mean that we lynch an innocent who takes another innocent with him/her - and by the way the maniac might even take a wolf with him/her. (Now that I'm thinking a little further I'm also aware the maniac could take the seer or ranger with him/her too but personally I think it would be worth the risk because we'd still get one wolf down.)

I don't know if this guarantees us a wolf lynch on Day 2 though. Say our Maniac reveals and is not believed and lynched. We lose three innocents before Day 2 starts. And there's only twelve villagers right?

But if the Maniac's reveal is believed we do have a known innocent. And in such a small village it could be dangerous to wait for a known innocent to appear.

I'd say the risks and the reward on this plan are probably about equal.