The Light in Gollum's Eyes

[littlemanpoet]

With apologies to Child of the Seventh Age -

The light in Gollum's eyes - what is it? how did it get there? What does it stand for? And what comparisons, if any, can we make of this to the light in Frodo's face?

[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: littlemanpoet ]

[Daniel Telcontar]

Well, comparisons must be that the Ring makes such a light by those carrying it, or desiring it. I think it stands for that Gollum is now totally mad, and will stop at nothing to get the Ring back.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Littlemanpoet --

No apologies needed, but where is this light? What chapter? Help, I am so fixed on the light in Frodo's eyes that I lost the one in Gollum's.

There's a reference in The Forbidden Pool where Frodo goes to find Gollum so Faramir's men won't shoot him. Gollum is hunting for fish and says:

Fissh nice fissh. Makes us strong. Makes eyes bright, fingers tight, yes.

Is it early in the book where Gollum follows them?

I will scramble around to find it, but if anyone can get me there a bit faster, I would appreciate.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[Guinevere]

Hi, Child of the 7Th age,

Gollum`s luminous eyes are mentioned only in The Hobbit , chapter "riddles in the dark".
Bilbo "saw Gollum`s eyes like small green lamps coming up the shore" and later "Bilbo could see the light of his eyes palely shining even from behind"

I have wondered at that too, but in "The Hobbit" Gollum isn`t presented as related to the kindred of hobbits. He is just one of the slimy creatures who have lived so long in the dark, "that their eyes grew bigger and bigger from trying to see in the blackness"
In my opinion it has nothing to do with the spiritual light that develops in Frodo, I think it`s more like those luminous creatures that live in the deep sea.
And in LotR it isn`t mentioned again, as far as I know.

Guinevere

[Kuruharan]

It's a physical/spiritual manifestation of his lust for the Ring, perhaps?

[ElanorGamgee]

In the book there is a difference in the light in Gollum's eyes depending on his mood. When he is "Stinker" his eyes glow with a greenish light and as "Slinker" they are a pale light.

"Gollum was talking to himself. Sméagol was holding a debate with some other thought that used the same voice but made it squeak and hiss. A pale light and a green light alternated in his eyes as he spoke."
~The Two Towers, The Passage of the Marshes

It seems to me that the light signifies whether Sméagol is truly speaking or his mind is being controlled by the Ring.

[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: ElanorGamgee ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks for everyone's help in finding where this is. And the whole thing did start with the revisions Tolkien made with the Hobbit. The original text in 1937 only mentions his eyes being big, and pale, and lamp-like. That's at the beginning of his meeting with Bilbo when Gollum isn't thinking about the Ring.

But the 1951 revisions change the latter part of the text, and there are many references to the light in his eyes in the scene where he discovers the Ring is gone. Gollum is getting pretty upset at this point and his eyes become "like small green lamps". Or in another place: "As suspicion grew in Golum's mind, the light of his eyes burned with a pale flame." And then he gets REALLY upset: "But now the light in Gollum's eyes had become a green fire, and it was coming swiftly nearer."

So, it sounds like big pale or white eyes are alright, but when they turn a burning green, Gollum is getting pretty greedy about the Ring, and you'd better watch out! And Elanor's point about Smeagol/Gollum is a continuation of that.

So Guinevere was right in that orginally he had big fish eyes, but the greed for the Ring could turn them into something else!

This is interesting. I'd never noticed this before.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[littlemanpoet]

Reading the section in the Two Towers having to do with Frodo and Sam guided by Gollum is what got me thinking about this. I had recalled the incident of Sam watching the two halves of Gollum in debate over Frodo, but what really heated up my curiosity was as the two hobbits are led by G up the stairs of Cirith Ungol. There, in the dark, they can see the light of his eyes reflecting off the wall - at least that's what I remember - I haven't gotten that far in my current reading again.

Thanks for the clarification, Elanor, Guinevere and Child.

So the general consensus is that there is no relation between the light in Gollum's eyes and that in Frodo's face? Obviously, Gollum's light is either not-so-bad or downright evil whereas Frodo's light is his spirit coming through as it is refined (I'd rather not say purified) by his struggle against the Ring. But the Ring is the cause of both lights, nonetheless, and that's the connection I'm interested in. Any thoughts?

[Calencoire]

Yeah, I think that the desire for the ring and the madness that came from it was what put the "light" there.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

In the book there is a difference in the light in Gollum's eyes depending on his mood. When he is "Stinker" his eyes glow with a greenish light and as "Slinker" they are a pale light.

<font color=gold>This is what I have believed as well, Elanor. I agree with many things mentioned here as well. It has been a while since I have read The Hobbit, so I do not remember those parts. Thanks for the reminder everyone!

[Kuruharan]

But the Ring is the cause of both lights, nonetheless, and that's the connection I'm interested in. Any thoughts?

I'm not sure that I would say that it was just the Ring causing the "lights." It seems to be a combination of: the will of the Ring and its interaction with the will and/or spirit of the Bearer, the initial condition of the spirit of the Bearer, and the experiences that the Bearer has in relation to the Ring.

I wonder if it would be possible to draw a parallel between Gollum and the Nazgul. Both were ensnared by their lust for rings. Obviously, the Nazgul were brought to a far more terrible spiritual condition than Gollum, but I think that the process was similar. Gollum was a rather unsavory character in the beginning and he came by the Ring through murder. He used the Ring for his own purposes, which drove him to greater and greater isolation. The primary, and by the end almost the only, driving force in his life was the Ring. The Nazgul were ensnared by their lust for their Rings, and as a result they became creature more of spirit than the flesh. Gollum's will became chained to the One Ring and the "light" shining out of his eyes might be a part of the spiritual transformation into a wraith of some sort.

(Just a theory. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )

Frodo inherited the Ring from a previous Bearer who laid it down of his own will. He did not use it to further his own ends, in fact he did not use it at all. His wounding on Weathertop seems to have had a great impact on his spiritual/emotional condition. It is after that Gandalf silently observes the growing "light" within Frodo. Although this was not the first misadvanture on the way (the Barrow-downs being perhaps the most important of the others) Weathertop was probably the most significant in beginning the spiritual transformation.

Unlike Gollum, Frodo's greatest drive was not to own the Ring, but (hopefully) rid himself of it. Because of this, his sufferings wrought a spiritual change that was different than that of Gollum, creating a visible manifestation of his clean spirit rather than that of a deformed wicked one like Gollum's.

(There, I hope that all makes sense! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )