morgoths return?

[rutslegolas]

tolkein does not mention anything abut mor goths return after war of the ring does morgoth return?

[Kransha]

I think I can honestly say "no".

Morgoth is gone, not dead, but gone for good. Like Sauron. No sequel, no comeback, no revenge. The forces of Morgoth and his kin have been extinguished, those that remain are dying. Morgoth was finished ages ago, literally.

[lathspell]

No, Kransha, Morgoth will return!

At the End, after ages have passed, Morgoth will return and so will all his orcs and servants. And they will fight the Ainur, Men, Elves and (?)Dwarves. This war will be the Dagor Dagorath and will result in Turin Turambar slaying Morgoth. And only after this shall Feänor announce of what materials he made the Silmarils.

That's what I know (or heard tell [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img])

greetings,
lathspell

[camomile]

Morgoth was banished to the void of space. he will not reture. he will spend the rest of eternity floating around in nothingness contenplating the meaning of his navle and wondering if that rash on his inner elbo is a bad thing.
-the oppinion of one mortal-

[Finwe]

In the HoME series, I don't remember exactly which book, Tolkien's notes state that one day, far distant in the future, Morgoth will sneak through the Door, when Earendil's watch is relaxed, and bring devastation into Arda. Earendil will chase him out of the upper sky, and on the fields of Valinor, a last battle shall be fought. Some accounts also state that Turin will deal Morgoth his death-stroke, with his black sword, but others say that Morgoth will be defeated by the Valar. In this conflict, all of Arda will be destroyed, thus enabling Morgoth to be destroyed (since Arda is his "Ring").

The Turin theory is hotly debated, and many say that Tolkien intended to scrap it. I'm sure that there is a thread floating about, perhaps in the Book forum, about the End of Days and Morgoth's Return.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

There was a thread with this exact title a short while ago here. The subject of Túrin is discussed here; and there are other threads concerning the Tolkienian apocalypse and Morgoth's return here and here. There are several other threads that you can find through the search function. Wonderful things, search engines.

[Kransha]

OH! *slaps self with Grond*
I forgot that! I do remember this tidbit now. *slaps self with Grond again*. I suppose I must've not considered that aspect. I thought the question meant "could Morgoth return any old time with all his power". The Morgoth/Turin final battle is an equivalent of Armageddon, after time has ended, the greatest warriors will return to duke it out one last time.

*slaps self with Grond one last time and crushes own head*

[Osse]

It was a concept largely inspired (once again) from Norse mythology, where Ragnorak (the final battle) was said to happen and seal the ending of the world, (all dead warriors waited in the halls of Valhalla, for the time when they unite with their gods to fight the giants etc)... ie the halls of waiting, and the concept that all would unite in the final battle of the world (Ainur, Elves, Men and all the Free Folk), that would purge it of all evil, but result in its destruction. I am not religious, and therefore know not how this is akin to Armageddon, but these religions shared a common root, so when likened to one, the other may be relevant. I wish to buy HoME, but the many volumes and high prices have in the past deterred me, I hope it is worth it?


Regards to all!

Osse

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 10:36 PM February 06, 2004: Message edited by: Osse ]

[Maverick]

In what book does it talk about Morgoth's return.

[Saraphim]

I think I actually read something about it in the Silmarillion. But it is very late and I could be thinking of Morgoth's Ring.

But yes, there is a passage somewhere that says that Morgoth and Sauron will return from the Void from which they were cast and do battle with the Valar, Elves, ect.

Try reading the HoME series, or even skim the indexes for Dagor Dagorath.

*this has been useless late-night dribble. thank you for listening.*

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

Hiya, scholars! I just joined, but I would like to make some contribution in this discussion.

I distinctly remembered Gandalf saying that "Other Evils there are that may come; for Sauron is himself but a servant or emissary." Then again, all evils in Arda had been attributed to the malice of Morgoth dissipated into the making of Arda.

Morgoth himself may not return at any time soon, but I guess he can probably persuade/possess some other megalomaniac to break the peace in Arda (via his psychic/spiritual link through the Void to his servants). But until Dagor Dagorath, I think he is still gonna be Earendil's jailbird.