Old man willow...

[Mumriken]

Hi I read on wikipedia about this malevolent old tree. I know wikipedia isn't the best source so that is why I'd like your opinion on this.

He was a willow tree in the Old Forest from which much of the Forest's hatred of walking things came. He is portrayed in the story as a tree, albeit a sentient and evil one with various powers including irresistible hypnosis and the ability to move his roots and trunk. Some characters of the story speculate that he may have been related to the Ents, or possibly the Huorns, as the Old Forest was originally part of the same primordial forest as Fangorn. However, unlike Ents or Huorns, Old Man Willow is portrayed more like a tree, with roots in the ground, and without the ability to uproot himself and move from place to place.

According to Tom Bombadil, long ago at the dawn of time in Middle-earth, long before even the Awakening of the Elves, trees were the only inhabitants of vast stretches of the world. Because the Elves awoke far in the East, it was still a considerable time before any other beings spread into the vast primeval forests of western Middle-earth. A handful of trees survived from this time until the present day, who are angered at the encroachment of Elves and Men and their dominion over the earth; trees who bitterly remember a time long ago when they were as Lords of vast regions of the world. Bombadil relates that of the corrupted trees of the Old Forest, "none were more dangerous than the Great Willow; his heart was rotten, but his strength was green; and he was cunning, and a master of winds, and his song and thought ran through the woods on both sides of the river. His grey thirsty spirit drew power out of the earth and spread like fine root-threads in the ground, and invisible twig-fingers in the air, till it had under its dominion nearly all the trees of the Forest from the Hedge to the Downs.

If I remember correctly it was Yavanna who created the ents to guard the forests of middle earth from the dwarves. So presumably old man willow was one of if not the last first born ent? For a long time he has spread his roots and given up walking around as an old ent like Treebeard. Yet Treebeard refers to himself as oldest doesn't he? However it seems like old man willow's power surpasses that of ordinary ents or rooted trees. It says that he is a master of the winds and that his song and thoughts run throughout the woods. He is the only tree as far as we know that has these abilities. Is it possible that he is unlike the others something more than just a rooted ent? I'm not sure if when Yavanna created the ents she had in mind to create something as sinister as old man willow because he is truly evil.

What exactly is he and is it possible that morgoth has anything to do with the sinister nature of the old willow? I don't think the ents and trees of middle earth would easily surrender to the forces of morgoth would they, maybe old man willow was one of morgoth's corruptions that after the destruction of the children would help him conquer the forests? A wild guess, but I find it hard to believe that such hatred could come out of the mind of Yavanna.

[Puddleglum]

One of the dangers in analyzing Middle Earth is the desire to fit everything into the categories we've already been explicitly told about (like Men, Elves, Ainur, Ents, Maier, etc). But this ignors what was said of Eru that "to none but himself has he revealed all that he has in store, and in every age new things arise that have no fortelling, for they do not proceed from the past." (rough quote - I forget if it was in Ainulindale or the Quenta, but it's in the published Silmarillion).

Someone has said of our natural world that it is not only stranger than we know, but stranger than we can know. Tolkien wrote is stories as a "feigned" history of our real world (tho set in a mythical past). So it would be no unusual thing if strange "things" crop up from time to time which don't fit the (limited) set of categories that we have been told explicitly about. Bombadil was one such enigma. It's left unclear, but still possible, that OMW (old man willow) was another. Of course, in a world where foxes talk to themselves and rocks speak in ways Elves can comprehend (and where thoughts can pass to and fro as in the final conference with Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, etc "Many Partings") it may not be so strange that a tree can survive for 6000 or more years and, itself, send its thought throughout nearby trees. And if Trees can grow entish and become Huorns, maybe they can grow entish in other ways too.

[Alfirin]

Also, given how little we know of Ents, Old Man Willows behavior may in fact be not outside what they are capable of. Since a Huor is a tree that has grown to be somewhat entish there is presumably some sort of way in which ents can influence trees and "wake" them over time (unless the idea is that EVERY tree (and if one factors in the things the Enwives took in thier care, possibly every plant) has the ability to "wake" given enough time.) We know that as ents grow older they can become "treeish" and ultimately sedentary.
As for Old Man Willows "evil" I don't think you need to assume Morgoth would need to be involved. Ents and Huorns can think andcan choose thier actions, and like all other thinking things, that means that some of them can choose evil. We know Ents can feel fear (the one who was wounded by the orcs and went off and hid on one of the mountains, refusing to even come down for the moot) and rage (the whole march against Isengard. Presumably they can feel hate as well. If an ent can think it also presumably go mad. Maybe that is what we have in Old man willow, an Ent/Huorn whose grief and hate at his losses (an Entwife he was particualry fond of? Fellow trees who were cut down by people?) that his hatred now infused the world around him, allowing him to go on a one tree vendetta agaist any interloper into the Old Forest. Tom did say Old Man willows heart was rotten but his streght was green. That sound like a pretty good image of a being out on a revenge kick to me.

[Galadriel55]

Well huorns of Fangorn are pretty dark creatures themselves, even with Ents around. If Ol' Man Willy () is a huorn, there's no problem with him being evil and all...

But that's not my real opinion. I think that Old Man Willow... well, he also is.

[Bêthberry]

The animosity of the trees in the Old Forest to hobbits is said to be due to the battle between the trees and the hobbits over the Hedge, with the hobbits starting a fire at what became known as the Bonfire Glade. The Old Forest is not quite so much evil as . . . more aware and thus perilous. It is the Barrow Downs where real evil lurks.

Originally Posted by LotR, "The Old Forest", Merry

But the Forest is queer. Everything in it is very much more alive, more aware of what is going on, so to speak, than things are in the Shire. . . . In fact long ago they [ie, the trees] attacked the Hedge: they came and planted themselves right by it, and leaned over it. But the hobbits came and cut down hundreds of trees, and made a great bonfire in the Forest, and burned all the ground in a long strip east of the Hedge. After that the trees gave up the attack, but they became very unfriendly. There is still a wide bare space not far inside where the bonfire was made.'"

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Well huorns of Fangorn are pretty dark creatures themselves, even with Ents around.

Yes, but their bark was worse than their bite.