Meeting at the Town Cobbler (WW XCV game thread)

[satansaloser2005]

The game will open with a Day phase, starting at 5pm CDT (in 23 hours). The committee (wolves) will not be able to converse before this phase.

This thread will be updated by the time the game opens. More information will be given before then, but for now, please read the following note you find upon entering the Cobbler.






Dear guests:

Thank you for accepting my invitation. I regret to inform you that I will be unable to join you before morning, as I had unexpected obligations. Since my time will now be shorter than expected, I trust you, my honored guests, to decide who among you will be able to best make use of our time in the morning. For any who are not selected for our breakfast seminar, return airfare and other compensation will, of course, be given. Thank you for your patience, and welcome to the Cobbler.

*SS*






Do not post on this thread until told otherwise. Please be sure to check your PM box for your role. The game will commence at 5pm CDT on Friday (in ~23 hours).

[satansaloser2005]

The Town Cobbler is empty except for the young men and women who have been asked to work for the evening. The sky is a bit cloudy, so the staff put on their brightest smiles (as well as some tea) and wait for the guests to arrive. This is going to be an interesting weekend.

Steve, Nog, and Greenie trudge through the door, rather exhausted from their flight, while Agan just strides in and starts chatting up the person at the front desk. Nog checks his phone and is unsurprised to see that he has no signal. He stuffs it in his pocket, drops his bags by an empty table, and orders a drink.

Rikae and Mac, having left their evil yet adorable little ones with a friend for the weekend, are the next to arrive. Mac makes his way to the front desk, but is informed that check-ins will not begin until all the guests have arrived. He and Rikae then order drinks and sit down beside Nog, making polite conversation and checking their phones, which, like Nog's, have no signal. They are puzzled by this development but ignore it, setting their phones on the table and continuing their chat. Do balrogs have wings, or some other things?

McCaber, Shasta, and Dun walk in together, talking about this year's Arda Cup and their chances of beating Gwath in this year's competition. Intending to text a friend, Shasta is surprised to see that he's in roaming (mostly because the last time he was in the area he couldn't pick up a signal at all). He shrugs, drops his phone in his sweatshirt pocket, and remindsMcCaber that he doesn't have a chance.

Lottie stumbles in carrying a stack of books in her arms. Struggling to balance them all, she hears the telltale signal that lets her know that, as it has been for most of her trip here, she has no phone signal. She grumbles a bit about the annoyance then slumps down at a table, cracks a book, and starts reading, mumbling apologies to anyone who walks by and attempts to start a conversation.

Wanting to make an entrance, Wilwa skips in with a basket of muffins in her hands. She doesn't even bother to check her phone, munching on a muffin instead, and is saddened to see that Sally couldn't make it to the Cobbler. After all, these are some amazing muffins, and it would be difficult for Sally to think of a snarky remark in the presence of such fabulous confections. She shrugs, asks the young man at the counter for a bottle of water, and sits down to read a book.

As you all sit around various tables in the Cobbler, someone’s phone rings. You all check your various devices, but it is Boro who stands up, texting madly to the person on the other end of the conversation. “Crap,” he mutters. Without acknowledging any of the other guests, he grabs his coat from one of the hangers by the door and rushes out, mumbling something about a puppy.

Those of you who remain exchange confused glances, then one of the staff brings out a round of drinks for everyone and you settle into your chairs, striking up conversations with those around you. The young man assures you that you will be able to check in shortly, then disappears into the kitchen to help finish dinner.




In the Cobbler:
Rikae
Lottie
Shasta
Dun
Greenie
Agan
Nog
Wilwa
Mac
Steve
McCaber

Checked out:
Boro





It is now Hour 1. The hunter may send me a pick at any time. The rest of you should start chatting. Good luck!

[Inziladun]

Good scotch, this. Dewar's, I believe.

So what's going here anyway? What's that Boro fellow up to? Is he coming back?

[Inziladun]

Hm. One thing I find interesting is the communications setup. notably this:

Every phase, one person will be randomly selected to be able to send a message to one other person in the game (this person must still be in the Cobbler, and if a wolf is selected, they may not PM a packmate). If that person chooses to respond, they must do so within 24 RL hours. The original sender may not reply to this message.

I see this as having more benefit for the committee members. Innocents (other then the Eavesdropper) won't know anyone else's role. So what do you say? If you're honest about a suspicion or whatnot, you risk giving the committee something they could use. If you're deliberately deceitful, you could be doing a disservice to a fellow innocent.
On the other hand, the baddies could simply use the opportunity to further their own ends, with little worry.

Thoughts on this?

[McCaber]

Let me put my pondering hat on. It's been too long since I've had the chance to do this, and I might be out of shape.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I see this as having more benefit for the committee members. Innocents (other then the Eavesdropper) won't know anyone else's role. So what do you say? If you're honest about a suspicion or whatnot, you risk giving the committee something they could use. If you're deliberately deceitful, you could be doing a disservice to a fellow innocent.
On the other hand, the baddies could simply use the opportunity to further their own ends, with little worry.

Thoughts on this?

Well, it's more information than you had, which is always useful. And if what you're given doesn't jibe with posted positions, it lets you know something might be up. I wouldn't trust it implicitly, but it's definitely a tool that can be used to learn things.

Whether or not the things you learn are what the messager wants you to, that's between the two of you.

[satansaloser2005]

Cell signal resumes for a moment, then, once again, you have no bars. What a pity.



(I cleared out my inbox. My apologies for not doing so before I left.)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Well, it's more information than you had, which is always useful. And if what you're given doesn't jibe with posted positions, it lets you know something might be up. I wouldn't trust it implicitly, but it's definitely a tool that can be used to learn things.

What do you mean "posted positions"? Someone contradicting themselves from the thread to a PM? I'd still be concerned personally talking with someone privately I can't be sure of.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Cell signal resumes for a moment, then, once again, you have no bars. What a pity.

That's actually typical for my cell service. It won't work in my office or my favorite grocery store.

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

What do you mean "posted positions"? Someone contradicting themselves from the thread to a PM? I'd still be concerned personally talking with someone privately I can't be sure of.

Not even contradictions, but signs or intuitions that something may be off.

Of course it's a reason for concern, but I think that any information you find is a benefit to you if you remember that it might be an attempt to mislead. This is a limited-information game, and to an ordo who has no other cards in play, it's a chance to get a step up.

Of course, the statements could be from a seer trying to see if s/he can trust you or a wolf trying to mislead you (possibly into thinking they're the seer and getting you to back a play of theirs). But I feel that while there's risk, there can also be rewards.

[Inziladun]

Man, is it ever quiet. Don't we have to vote in less than twelve hours?

[wilwarin538]

To get in on this discussion. I think Inzil is partly right that this messaging thing might benefit the committee more than the innocents, but I think the Seer would actually be the person most benefited if they get chosen (depending on when they get chosen). If they've dreamed of an innocent they could contact that person and let them know who they are, tell them the dreams, and have themselves an ally.

Really all anyone else could do is contact someone they feel good about. But only getting 1 message back and not being able to respond again makes the conversation very limited. And the committee would probably use this tool to mislead people in some way.

So I don't know, I can't really think right now how useful this will be, but hopefully it does end up being beneficial. But again, I agree with Inzil, I have no idea what it is most of us could really say, maybe something we're not sure we're prepared to suggest on the thread, so we could say it to one person to see if it makes sense? Even that though...

Anyway, this game should be interested. If people show up

[A Little Green]

Agh, I'm still somewhat confused by all the twists, so don't mind me if I'm incoherent! Wilwa brings up a good point about the Seer, makes me feel better about her (I don't think a wolf would dare bring that up, just in case the Seer had not figured that out him/herself). Other than that, I agree with Inzil that the PMs are tricky for innocents. Though I bet they are that to the wolves too, for I guess trying to fool somebody in a private message is a deal harder than in the thread.

[wilwarin538]

I think the messaging thing will get more useful the further we get, once people have better opinions about people and once more has happened.

Where is everyone? I have to leave in less than 2 hours...

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Wilwa brings up a good point about the Seer, makes me feel better about her (I don't think a wolf would dare bring that up, just in case the Seer had not figured that out him/herself).

A wolf could still have brought that up hoping to make a false seer claim down the line.

Not that right now I think Wilwa's a wolf, but she isn't automatically innocent.

If more people don't start showing up, I might need to pick a name of a quiet one from a hat.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by McCaber

A wolf could still have brought that up hoping to make a false seer claim down the line.

Not that right now I think Wilwa's a wolf, but she isn't automatically innocent.

I agree. And who's to say the person contacted by the "Seer" should trust xe is being honest? There's just no way to know who's being honest.

Originally Posted by McCaber

If more people don't start showing up, I might need to pick a name of a quiet one from a hat.

As unwelcome as that idea is, I may be forced into it as well. I haven't seen anything voteworthy from those who have actually spoken thus far. Then again, we could vote no one and not have a death toDay.

On an RL note, I fear our moddess could be in for some rough weather in her corner of the world today and tonight. Stay safe, Sally!

[Boromir88]

Inconceivable! The entire bag!? *mutters* of course I really know what that word means

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Then again, we could vote no one and not have a death toDay.

Considering how small the group is I could be persuaded to do that. There's what, 11 people? 3 wolves, 3 gifteds, 5 ordos, high chance of hitting an innocent, especially with so little information to go on. I hate voting people on random, especially if some people might just be busy in RL or not have realized we started. Waiting one day I don't think will put us at much of a disadvantage...

But then we would of course be losing a chance to get a wolf, which we could still get lucky enough to do. I don't know, I hate just picking someone out of a hat with nothing to go on.

I have another half hour before I need to go to work. So when I get back I'll vote or if people think we should forgo a lynch today than I will support that too.

edit: x'ed with Boro aka Vizzini

[Rikae]

I'm here and reading, but there seems to be little to say at the moment. Naturally Wilwa is right about the possibility of the seer communicating with a known innocent, and naturally, that would be the easiest thing in the world for a wolf to do as well.
The fact that Greenie doesn't seem to have noticed that makes me raise an eyebrow.

My better half needs to stop playing Minecraft and post or I'll vote for him.

That's all for now.

[Macalaure]

It seems like people think of the messages mostly as a means to convey something to somebody else. Don't forget that your message prompts somebody to write a message back. If you send something to somebody you're not sure about, that's a good way to learn (even if they don't reply).

I don't think the information offered in a message is worth much. A reveal might be fake, and any opinions given are probably already available in the thread anyway, or have to be taken with a bucketful of salt. Like Greenie mentioned, as a wolf, I would be nervous to write a message: the risk of giving something away (even if it's just a bad vibe) is not necessarily worth the opportunity to sow some deceit.

Talking about bad vibes, Wilwa is giving me a slight one right now, but I can't say why. Nothing else to say right now.

[Eönwë]

Wow, it's quiet here.
On the Night-messaging, I don't think there's that much to say other than that it will become useful later in the game. A question to Our Moddess: What are the rules on talking about the secret correspondances? I mean, it could affect the game alot.

And remind me to never go against a Boro when death is on the line.

edit: x-ed with Mac

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by note on the wall

Unbeknownst to most of you, a small portion of the group has been planted to ensure that the people meeting with the expert are worthy of being involved in the upcoming discussion. They will privately converse from time to time and inform SS and their staff of their findings to recommend removal of certain attendees from the guest list. Some of the more astute or suspicious members of the group may notice this and try to change the others’ recommendations or even reveal their plans to the rest of the group.

Okay. Queueing to meet this famous Tolkien -expert and some people wish to block the entry for some of us? On which grounds are some of us deemed "worthy" or "not worthy" then?

Should we just call for the removal of all the serious Tolkien cognoscenti then as they are the only ones I could think would qualify as the gatekeepers on this kind of an issue...



But - and here's actually a more serious question - the rules say that this small secret group will recommend the removal of some of us to SS (and "staff"???), and then that we can try to change the "others' recommendations" if we are astute or suspicious enough. So what does this actually mean?

Turning it to a werewolf-vocabulary: are there independent Day-Night sequences where vote-kills and lupine-kills follow each other or are there only vote-kills?

"Changing the recommendations" sounds like we have a say over the secret society as what they do is to give "recommendations". Or am I reading too much into this?

I mean I'm a bit confused about all the new rules - or especially all this "watch your cell-phone" or "follow me upon Twitter" -stuff etc. Like I'm not sure which is for the game itself and it's mechanics and what is just for fun.

Well, it probably clears out, but if SS would like to shed some light I'd appreciate.


On a third note, I'm in the middle of a huge essay-reading period ending on Monday-evening so my participation might be more or less erratic before that.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Like Greenie mentioned, as a wolf, I would be nervous to write a message: the risk of giving something away (even if it's just a bad vibe) is not necessarily worth the opportunity to sow some deceit.

I remember the last time there was this kind of twist, I was a wolf then, and I think it was one of the most challenging things I have done as a wolf; trying to accomplish something when given the opportunity to PM someone but being soo afraid not to reveal my lupine interests that in the end it turned out just whimsy good-for-nothing...

So it is a hairy thing... also to the wolves.


But yes, I kind of like that opportunity as it gives a new level to try and find something. It's one more new piece of "evidence" anyway - like lies in the court are evidence as well as true accounts - or the lawyers' traps.

[satansaloser2005]

One of the staff raises an eyebrow at the voice outside and quietly excuses himself, rushing out the side door to investigate the commotion. You hear the young man and Boro speaking in not very hushed tones, then it grows silent outside yet again.



Also, please note that the Town Cobbler does not allow pets, and thus all wolves or any other animals, domesticated or otherwise, must be kept outside.

(Because, you see, there are no wolves here. I feel better now. Moving on.)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Wow, it's quiet here.
On the Night-messaging, I don't think there's that much to say other than that it will become useful later in the game. A question to Our Moddess: What are the rules on talking about the secret correspondances? I mean, it could affect the game alot.

From the admin thread:

Originally Posted by The Rules

You may not re-post "text messages" from any source.

You can allude to such things, but you may not re-post any private conversation, whether it be in full or in part. People shouldn't be peeking over your shoulder at your phone. I think it's rather rude, really.

[satansaloser2005]

This game's mechanics function like any other game, with the exception of the additions of "text-messaging" (PMs between players) and overhearing the conversation upstairs (which only gives hints as to SS and other wackiness, not to actual roles within the game).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Inconceivable! The entire bag!? *mutters* of course I really know what that word means

Returned, I see. Care to say what happened? Then again, we might not want to know.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

But then we would of course be losing a chance to get a wolf, which we could still get lucky enough to do. I don't know, I hate just picking someone out of a hat with nothing to go on.

Thankfully, folks have begun to show up, so it appears to be a non-issue now.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

It seems like people think of the messages mostly as a means to convey something to somebody else. Don't forget that your message prompts somebody to write a message back. If you send something to somebody you're not sure about, that's a good way to learn (even if they don't reply).

It still seems risky to me. If you don't know the alignment of the one you're talking to, should you be honest with thoughts and suspicions, or not? The baddies have the advantage because they know more about the other than vice-versa.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Talking about bad vibes, Wilwa is giving me a slight one right now, but I can't say why. Nothing else to say right now.

Hm. She said she might be all right with no one dying toDay, which on the surface looks rather like an innocent. Still, there is a difference between talking about something and having to act on it.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Turning it to a werewolf-vocabulary: are there independent Day-Night sequences where vote-kills and lupine-kills follow each other or are there only vote-kills?

I haven't seen anything to suggest lynches go on in the Night phase, but maybe we'll get clarification all the same.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

"Changing the recommendations" sounds like we have a say over the secret society as what they do is to give "recommendations". Or am I reading too much into this?

I thought our influence was through our votes.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I mean I'm a bit confused about all the new rules - or especially all this "watch your cell-phone" or "follow me upon Twitter" -stuff etc. Like I'm not sure which is for the game itself and it's mechanics and what is just for fun.

Same here. I guess I'll just roll with it and see what develops.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But yes, I kind of like that opportunity as it gives a new level to try and find something. It's one more new piece of "evidence" anyway - like lies in the court are evidence as well as true accounts - or the lawyers' traps.

Courts and lawyers, eh? As if I needed another reason to foment my mistrust here.

x/d with Our Moddess

[satansaloser2005]

Please be advised of storms in the immediate area. For your safety, we ask that you stay inside the Cobbler until such time as the storm passes. If you have any concerns, members of the staff will, of course, be happy to assist you.


(The power's flickered a couple of times here, so if my phone dies I won't be around to call DL. As of now, it shouldn't be a problem, but I wanted to let you all know anyway.)

[Nogrod]

Btw. did the Day (hour) start six minutes late, 54 minutes early, or something completely diffferent?

I had had the understanding the DL would be something like in the early hours of the day for us here on the east coast of the pond, but if the DL is in about two hours (1AM here), then it makes a huge difference to me as it means I can be around, at the DL at least on some days...


Be as it is, it has been probably the quietest Day1 I remember. And I admit I'm part to blame myself as well. My thoughts have been on the pile of essays - and will be for the next two days.

I need to be away for a while now but I'll be back in an hour or so and hopefully there is a game going on then...

[satansaloser2005]

Boro and the young man walk back through the door, both of them soaking wet.

"Well," Boro says, "I guess I'm stuck here for a couple of hours."

(Boro seeks entertainment, as do I. He does not have a role and will not be affecting the game. He's just here for entertainment value.)


P.S. Oh, and Nog, the DL is in about an hour and a half. I was just delayed slightly when I posted yesterday.

[Boromir88]

LIAR! You haven't warned them of the approaching storm. Many are calling it the storm of the millenium! Who calls it the storm of the millenium? I DID!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

(Boro seeks entertainment, as do I. He does not have a role and will not be affecting the game. He's just here for entertainment value.)

Hey, we're all here for entertainment value.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

LIAR! You haven't warned them of the approaching storm. Many are calling it the storm of the millenium! Who calls it the storm of the millenium? I DID!

You, and the SPC, pretty much (yes, I am a certified Weather Geek).

[Nogrod]

The DL in less than forty minutes and this is all we have, even by way of entertainment?

Okay. Then we'll go with this - and whatever happens next.

One should have known about these geek-gatherings, everyone just sitting glued to their iWhatevers, Blackberries, tablets and laptops. No face-to-face communication whatsoever. Oops, my Android-phone tells me I have notifications from the 20+ forums I'm heatedly debating the wings of the Balrogs, the colour of Dr. Spock's socks, the possibility of a new theory about area 51 - and of course the latest news about the Arda Cup...

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Hey, we're all here for entertainment value.

Well, that's definitely true.

On a serious note, however, I really don't think enough's been said toHour* for me to be able to make a decision about who to vote. At least so far, anyway.

There's only half an hour left of toHour!



*Yes, toHour is what I think it will make sense to use this game.


edit: x-ed with the Nog

[Inziladun]

It really isn't good to be so close to DL and have really nothing on anyone.

Mac had an unfocused suspicion on Wilwa, but I really haven't seen anyone else suspecting.

Let's see, who are the current no-shows?

Lottie,
Shasta,

and Agan.

One of them? Or no vote toDay? Or do we trust to the odds in a small number of players like this that we hit a baddie?

x/d with Steve

[McCaber]

Well, we've got half an hour to go and I still have no credible thoughts one way or another.

Inzil I'm getting honest vibes from, but that could just be from the first few posts when it was just us.

No one else has really posted anything of substance, but from the folks with one or less I have to say Greenie's the one I like least so far.

EDIT: crossed with a few

[Nogrod]

Looking at the situation we're in I might second Inzil's and wilwa's proposal of not lynching anoyone at this Hour.

There's insanely little to say about anyone and looking at the general numbers it looks like a hit in the dark. I normally don't like the idea of a non-lynch as lynching is the only way we can kill the wolves, but this looks like ridiculously random.

What do you think?

If we vote, I might consider Greenie (surprise!) - not on exactly the same grounds that Rikae said, but a related one. But it is thin indeed - like any reasoning I can do right at the moment.

[Rikae]

Terrible, terrible Day (hour) 1. You should all be ashamed. Of course, I wasn't any help.

*is ashamed*

Nogrod, what is your reason for suspecting Greenie, however thin? Any discussion is better than none.

I'm not too sure about this idea of lynching no one. Gives the baddies a free... 2-hour period, I guess: a risk free kill for them. With these numbers, the chances that we'd lynch one are actually better than usual.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Looking at the situation we're in I might second Inzil's and wilwa's proposal of not lynching anoyone at this Hour.

There's insanely little to say about anyone and looking at the general numbers it looks like a hit in the dark. I normally don't like the idea of a non-lynch as lynching is the only way we can kill the wolves, but this looks like ridiculously random.

What do you think?

I don't really feel comfortable voting for someone (unless we go for someone who hasn't spoken yet, as Inzil suggested, but that seems unfair considering how little those who are here have said), since there's not really enough to go on to make any proper suspicion. On the other hand, the alternative means that we're giving the wolves- erm, Committee members- a free Hour, but on the other hand (Yes, a third hand, I know), there's a large chance of killing an innocent, which would be worse.

edit: x-ed with Rikae

[Nogrod]

The thing about Greenie I dislike / suspect is that she goes on explaining why a wolf wouldn't have done what wilwa did (dare to talk about how a seer might try to play) and that that is the reason she feels good about her.

Really, a wolf would exactly "dare" to do that. A wolf would love to point that out if none else had done it as the seer surely has thought of that. And I remember Greenie most often being on the camp which says "you elitists don't you think the gifteds can't think themselves!" when someone dares to suggest something to the gifteds - but now she thinks the seer might not have thought of the obvious?

So that I find a bit dubious.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

There's insanely little to say about anyone and looking at the general numbers it looks like a hit in the dark. I normally don't like the idea of a non-lynch as lynching is the only way we can kill the wolves, but this looks like ridiculously random.

I hate these kinds of dilemmas too.

Not voting squanders our chance of getting a committee member, so it isn't my desire. However, we certainly have even less this Day 1 to consider than usual.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If we vote, I might consider Greenie (surprise!) - not on exactly the same grounds that Rikae said, but a related one. But it is thin indeed - like any reasoning I can do right at the moment.

I don't know. That's the problem. I might could go for one of the submarines out of desperation.

x/d with last three

[Macalaure]

With this kind of silence today (and I don't mean just volume, since I only posted once as well, but actual points/suspicions), we made it easy for the wolves. The lynch will be virtually random, no matter how much we might try to come up with something sensical now.

Shasta, Lottie, and Aganzir have not shown themselves yet at all.
Rikae, Greenie: just one post, with nothing to go on.
Inzil keeps the conversation going. As a wolf he could conveniently slip into the background, or at least take himself back. Feeling good about him right now.
Nog: I can't find a reason to suspect him, which makes me suspicious.
Wilwa - re-reading her posts, I think the vibe I'm getting is that of someone who's a wolf and tries rather hard to find something to talk about, so that she won't be suspected for not contributing. (Not exactly the best reason, is it?)
Steve posts a bit, but doesn't really say much. I'm a bit wary there.
McCaber looks alright, like Inzil with less of a post count.