Into The Woods

[Lalwendë]

I've had something on my mind lately that troubles me about both Middle-earth and Beleriand. Where are all the woods?

It might seem odd, as one of the things readers associate with Tolkien is woodlands. But the maps tell a different story. One of those 'given' facts that we all know about the world in the pre-modern years was that the woodlands were extensive. Even in the UK right up until the late medieval period, much of the land was covered with trees - from low lying areas to mountains. A small population does not need to cut down trees. And Middle-earth has a small population. But if you look at maps of both Middle-earth and Beleriand there are actually few woodlands marked.

There are also immense swathes of the western regions of Middle-earth that seem well...barren. Beleriand is less denuded of woodland, but even here there are huge areas with no woodlands marked on the map, and you would think there would be much more.

Does this seem a bit strange to anyone else? Treebeard gives some clues but I'm still left wondering:

They always wished to talk to everything, the old Elves did. But then the Great Darkness came, and they passed away over the Sea, or fled into far valleys, and hid themselves, and made songs about days that would never come again. Never again. Aye, aye, there was all one wood once upon a time from here to the Mountains of Lune, and this was just the East End.
"Those were the broad days! Time was when I could walk and sing all day and hear no more than the echo of my own voice in the hollow hills. The woods were like the woods of Lothlorrien, only thicker, stronger, younger. And the smell of the air! I used to spend a week just breathing."

He then sings his song and lists all the different woodlands he has known. Mostly woodlands of Beleriand. What happened to all the woodlands, especially those in the west of Middle-earth, where there was a scanty population and Sauron and Saruman hadn't an influence. It's possible that many woodlands were ruined by Morgoth, or maybe drowned in the waves when Numenor was broken, but even so, new woodlands would have grown up. Were the woods kept cut back as they were a threat - as it seems the Old Forest was?

[Galadriel55]

Firstly, not all woods are, or need to be, mentioned in the maps. Only large forests are labeled. The other areas could have patches of woods that are too small / too thin to really put on a map.

Looking at Beleriand, the forests mentioned are Taur-im-Duinath, Region, Neldoreth, Brethil, Nimbrethil, Nan-tathren, and Dorthonion. But among Treebeard's list of the forests he's been in there are the "elm-woods of Ossiriand", although none such are abeled on the map. Also, it says in The Ruin of Doriath:

Then Beren arose and left Tol Galen, and summoning to him Dior his son they went north to the River Ascar...

...When the Dwarves of Nogrod, returning from Menegroth with diminished host came again to Sarn Athrad, they were assailed by unseen enemies; for as they climber up Gelion's banks burdened with the spoils of Doriath, suddenly all the woods were filled with the sound of elven-horns...

[...]

And as they climbed the long slopes beneath Mount Dolmed there came forth the Shepherds or the Trees, and they drove the Dwarves into the shadowy woods of Ered Lindon...

We aren't shown woods anywhere near Ascar or Mount Dolmed, or in that entire region, though it is clear that there were trees - lots of 'em. From the TA the easiest example that comes to mind is Ithilien: it obviously has a wide variety of vegetation from moss to tall trees, but you see none of that on the map.

My explanation would be that the books have very rough maps of the lands. I bet if you looked in Minas Tirith's library or asked Elrond for some resources, you'd find all those woods on their maps.

Originally Posted by Lal

Were the woods kept cut back as they were a threat - as it seems the Old Forest was?

From what I remember from the UT, the Numenorians cut down many ME trees for timber. This factor, as well as lack of such details, could contribute to the bare spots on the map.

[Lalwendë]

Why aren't these woodlands on the map? Is it purely for aesthetic reasons, namely the need to fit in labels of other features and so forth. Or is it that only the most tangled woods where significant story developments happened are included?

It probably sounds the strangest question but I love maps and I often think the 'official' ones which come with the books are lacking in detail and it sits very oddly with the notion that Middle-earth was a sylvan paradise, in the west at least. I used to use Barbara Strachey's Journeys of Frodo in preference to those in the books.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Why aren't these woodlands on the map? Is it purely for aesthetic reasons, namely the need to fit in labels of other features and so forth. Or is it that only the most tangled woods where significant story developments happened are included?

Both, I would guess. Also those without a major role but that are of some significance (such as Taur-im-Duinath by its size).

The maps in the books are only a basic guide to the reader of where things took place; they are not meant to be studied as an independant thing. But people like me and you love maps, so we have to "draw in" the details where we read about them, and - unfortunately - leave the places blank where no events took place.

I don't have any Books-About-Tolkien books, so I actually made som esketches of the geography. The most confusing for me was Nanduhirion/Lorien. I could not understand How they could be going South from Cerin Amroth to Galadhon if they've just crossed Nimrodel Northward. I had to search the web for an actual map where I saw that Nimrodel doesn't flow straight east but rather south-east, and it all made sense then... (in case you're wondering why I didn't look in the books, at that time I still only had my Russian translation that does not feature maps).

[Pomegranate]

To me it would seem that the case is pretty much exactly as you saw it - the woods with significance are drawn, others are not. One reason could be the thing you mentioned in your first post, Lalwende. For if the woodlands were extensive, as can be assumed, in the format of the "official" maps (I'm assuming the Finnish versions are pretty much the same as the English ones, only the names translated) drawing them all in would've made the map seriously messy. If the maps were in different form - say, for example, that the plains, woods, cities were differentiated by colours instead of little drawings - it would be easier to show the extent of the woodlands. In this format, which is rather unpractical for actual "whole image" purposes, it's better to leave the woods undrawn to keep the map understandable and clear. I think a similar effect can be affecting the hills - I'm pretty sure not all the land outside the main mountain ranges is just flat, but it's just not worth drawing little mountains all over the map.

[Mithalwen]

I think there are two issues here one of which is and has been reasonably explained - not all woodlands are shown due to the scale of the map. It seems that only the largest/densest/ most significant tracts of trees are shown. On the main map for examply Woody End is missing as are the Firienwood and Druadan Forest which do appear in the enlarged map of Rohan, Gondor and Mordor. Barbara Strachey's wonderful maps pick up on every detail and makes educated guesses. I am sure it was a question of space. We know that Ithilien had lovely woods and the Shire I imagine had a similar landscape to the shires Tolkien knew. Cultivated land with hedgerows and copses between fields ane hursts of trees in some of them. Not densely forested but very tree-y.

The other issue which I am spectacularly unqualified to answer having dropped Geography at 13 (which was a little while ago and we only did Glaciated Highlands and the Borneo Sumba anyway) is how land which which was heavily forested has become not so and remained so despite the absence of population and agriculture or large herds of ruminant animals. I know that the Australian rainforest actually needs the occasional forest fire to regenerate so even if Sauron's force burned the lands of Eriador when Ost in Edhil was destroyed and Rivendell besieges I can't quite see why the trees wouldn't have made more of a return given that the climate wasn't hostile.

[Inziladun]

I pretty much agree with what others have said: the fact that "forests" weren't all over the maps doesn't necessarily indicate an absence of trees, except in cases where the bareness of the land was specifically described, such as the Brown Lands and Eregion.
There are trees everywhere in the area in which I live, but my community isn't known as being in a "forest".

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I know that the Australian rainforest actually needs the occasional forest fire to regenerate so even if Sauron's force burned the lands of Eriador when Ost in Edhil was destroyed and Rivendell besieges I can't quite see why the trees wouldn't have made more of a return given that the climate wasn't hostile.

There's a mention of that very condition in ROTK Appendix A. The Witch-king might have had a hand in somehow altering the climate there.

It is said that Angmar was for a time subdued by the Elvenfolk coming from Lindon: and from Rivendell....It was at this time that the Stoors that had dwelt in the Angle (between Hoarwell and Loudwater) fled west and south, because of the wars, and the dread of Angmar, and because the land and clime of Eriador, especially in the east, worsened and became unfriendly.

The Angle wasn't too far northwest of Eregion. I wonder if the Witch-king was really behind it, or if that was just what people thought was the easiest explanation.

[Mithalwen]

Interesting, never really noticed that - thanks Inzil.

Maybe... but the Elves and the Rangers (who also lived in the Angle later) must have had some degree of cultivation...Rivndell may have been protected by the powers that dwellt there. Maybe some sort of acid rain?

Where I live is called a Forest but in the sense of a hunting forest so apart from the plantations(Enclosures we call em) they aren't so densly forested - woods separated by heathland which is maintained by grazing animals....