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#1 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 72
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"The Necromancer"
A question: Why did Sauron take on the identity of the "Necromancer"? I ask because commonly, a "Necromancer" is thought to be one with the power to raise the dead--In fiction usually a dark, evil wizard who controls armies of undead. Why was this name given to Sauron during the period in which he dwelled in Mirkwood?
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#2 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 435
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This would be doubly so if anyone was familiar with the Wtich King, who really probably actually is a necromancer (he called up the barrow wights and bad them inhabit the barrow, so he has the ability to summon spirits of some sort. And it would not suprise me if he turned out to have had a hand in the construction of the Watchers, he may have been the one to put the spirits in the stone). If a Necromancer serves an evil wizard, many might assume said wizard also knows necromancy himself. |
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#3 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 72
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Not to go off on a tangent, but one thing I love about Tolkien's world is that while he does explain a lot (especially in The Silmarillion and other writings), not everything is spelled out to the letter for us, or, to put it more bluntly, spoon fed to us. In contrast, in the world of Harry Potter, the rules are very well defined, "Magic" is pretty well defined and we generally know what the nature of magic is generally and what it's limits are. Not such with Tolkien. While he gives a lot of history, and he created a world full of magical characters, beings, legends, heroes and sagas, he also left enough open to one's own imagination that the mysteries of Middle Earth are still discussed some seventy years later. For example, Gandalf is an immensely powerful being--But we are never told the limits of his power (except that he is limited from using force to control others and is not allowed to uncloak himself fully). But even while "cloaked" we never see the full extent or nature of his power or magic. |
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#4 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,036
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The situation actually was that the Wise thought one of the Nazgûl to be the Necromancer, and maybe that was indeed the intention of Sauron, who wanted time to rebuild, and such anonymity would have suited him well. Quote:
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#5 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 435
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once it's true nature was revealed, the name had already stuck. And since it was not considered good to call Sauron Sauron, having a convenient alternate handle would likey have been considered a handy thing. Plus as long as there were Nazgul there as well (and there usually were) it is likey that there were necromancers within the walls (if one assumes all of the Nazgul are necromantically skilled, and the Witch king is simply the best at it.) |
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#6 | |||||
A Northern Soul
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
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All good points here, and I do love what you pointed out. With the load of material we're given about this world, there's still much left to wonder about, and it's always a joy to come across people who are just discovering it for the first time.
It lies outside of the story, but it is worth remembering (or pointing out) the writing process. Among others (some with names and places with roots in Tolkien's Quenta Silmarillion),"The Necromancer" was originally just some 'black sorcerer' that Tolkien alluded to in The Hobbit as a device to make the world seem much more vast and dangerous than little ole Bilbo and his hobbit hole. He was simply namedropping. At time of publishing, Tolkien didn't know the Necromancer would be revealed as Sauron or what Sauron would be doing in Bilbo's world. It was a self-contained child's tale written with no intention of a sequel. Even the most integral parts of the story behind The Lord Of The Rings including the story behind the Ring's power and the full identity/activities of the Necromancer and Gandalf were not conceived until after The Hobbit was published. So many people wrote Tolkien to ask for more details that he decided to write the sequel. How did the Ring come about? Where does Gandalf go? What's the Necromancer doing? Responding to his publisher's letters in late 1937 onward encouraging him to write a follow-up to The Hobbit, he wrote: Quote:
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Sauron's character as an evil apprentice of Morgoth evolved over the years of writing; he had several names and his nature shifted a few times (originally with feline connections) before Tolkien settled on "Sauron." At one time in the writing process Sauron was named Thû the Necromancer (in The Lay of Leithian, a story that takes thousands of years before The Hobbit) which is how the association came about (as evident above in the Letter 19 excerpt). What Sauron was doing to be called that while in Dol Guldur thousands of years later is still anyone's guess, but as I said, it is mostly a consequence of Tolkien having not actually fleshed those details out at time of writing - the references to The Necromancer, Radagast, Gandalf's travels, a council of white wizards, and a number of other things were there to impress upon children that Bilbo lived in massive world where all sorts of other things bigger than he were moving and clashing with no intention of ever explaining them further. This is a theme of the book for me, and Gandalf even closes the book with such a thought: Quote:
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#7 | ||
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The best seat in the Golden Perch
Posts: 219
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It could of course still be a case of Tolkien lifting the character of Thû the Necromancer from his other writings and dropping him into the Hobbit, but the point remains: the Necromancer = Sauron was something that was intended even before the Hobbit was completed and the common conception that this was a later idea (one that only arose during the writing of LotR) is in fact quite false.
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#8 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,036
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#9 | |
shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
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The other night I picked up my copy of Home X, Morgoth's Ring, browsed it randomly and started reading from The Later Quenta Silmarillion. And happened to come across a part that hints at why Sauron is called the Necromancer.
Here Tolkien writes about the Elves, their potential re-birth and what happens when they suffer a physical death. He writes that if an Elf is killed, their soul, or fëa, is summoned to the Halls of the Dead in Mandos where it would receive correction, instruction, strengthening and comfort, until it (that individual) was deemed to be fit for a re-birth into a new body. But the summons of Mandos were sometimes refused, and as he could not, or would not, force the fëa to enter the Halls of the Dead, lots of fëar would remain in Middle earth. Quote:
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"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan Last edited by skip spence; 05-29-2014 at 03:58 PM. |
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#10 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,036
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Interesting find, skip. I think the Barrow-wights would qualify there. Maybe the Necromancer name was derived from the Elves with that mythology in mind. Not knowing who in truth was the chief of Dol Guldur, they might have assigned him that moniker.
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#11 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,360
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Creepy dark dude in a dark tower in a dark land that spreads dark shadow and feeling of something ghostly or undead or just pure evil. What more ground is needed for his nickname? It's not like they called him Mr. Sunshine. It didn't even have to be Elves who named him. The name could have come from any nation/race/group. Most probably the Elves did, since they're the closest, but the basis behind the name doesn't necessarily reflect that.
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#12 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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That's true, but Professor Tolkien was hardly one to use names without putting any thought into them, was he? Is it more modern usage that defines 'Necromancer' as just 'Evil Sorcerer'? Because surely the Professor wouldn't have used it if he didn't have the connotations of interacting with the spirits of the dead in mind. I suppose though he might have been thinking of the "nigromancer" Latin (as opposed to Greek) folk etymology for the English word necromancer, which would of course suggest 'black magic practitioner' but that would seem like very sloppy usage from a philologist. Then again, 'Dwarves'...
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#13 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 435
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Well, there are things done in ME by the servant's of Shadow that certainly SOUND like straightforward necromancy, if not by Sauron than by the WK (and if the WK can do necromantic sorceries, I very much doubt his master cannot). We've covered the Barrow Wights, and I earlier mentioned the Watchers, which certainly sound like fea placed in statues (either that, or something golem-ish).
There is also the threat the WK makes to Eowyn, assuming it is not idle (i.e. that that he threatens to do to her he or his master is actually capable of.). I would say that destroying a persons body while still leaving their mind/soul trapped in this world to be tortured (which is what I think the WK is threatening) sounds like it fits squarely within the realm of necromancy. |
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#14 | |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The best seat in the Golden Perch
Posts: 219
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Thû is referred to as a necromancer as far back as the Lay of Leithian:
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So even then, in a pre-Hobbit work, the concept of Thû as a necromancer who meddled with phantoms and ghosts, was all present and correct.
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Then one appeared among us, in our own form visible, but greater and more beautiful; and he said that he had come out of pity. |
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#15 |
shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
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Yeah sure and also I think the werewolves, that are associated with Sauron too. A werewolf was, it seems, essentially a wolf inhabited by an evil spirit, like Carcharoth (but less formidable). It was likely werewolves that attached the fellowship near the Misty Mountains.
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"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan Last edited by skip spence; 06-09-2014 at 03:25 PM. |
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#16 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,036
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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