Celeborn - what does he mean? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalaith · 02-03-2003, 05:41 PM

His words to Aragorn in RotK have long puzzled me.

Quote:

"Kinsman, farewell! May your doom be other than mine, and your treasure remain with you to the end!"

Galadriel sails away from the Grey Havens, but do we take from this that Celeborn did not take a later ship? Were they sundered forever and if so, why?

burrahobbit · 02-03-2003, 05:44 PM

His lordship was ending and his lady was leaving him for a while. He's hoping that Aragorn's kingship won't end and that his lady will always be there. I think.

02-03-2003, 05:47 PM

Perhaps he is telling Aragorn not to cling to the past and become stagnant, but to look to the future.

Tar-Palantir · 02-03-2003, 07:16 PM

I was supposing Celeborn was making reference to the diminishing of the magic of the woods of Lorien and Caras Galadhon. And that he hoped Aragorn's Crown and Kingdom would stay with him until the end. I think.

GaladrieloftheOlden · 02-03-2003, 07:20 PM

Celeborn was (I think) not one of the High Elves, which may be a sort of reason that he, even if he did pass over the Sea, would be in a way sundered from Galadriel. Maybe he's hoping that this will not happen to Aragorn with Arwen because they are also of different kindreds.

Carrûn · 02-03-2003, 07:49 PM

I always took it to mean that Celeborn was wishing for Aragorn that Arwen would be with him until he died (the end) since Galadrial had already decided to leave and Celeborn wasn't ready yet or something like that. I never really thought about the two different kindreds being an isssue though, interesting point.

doug*platypus · 02-05-2003, 05:14 AM

It's also possible that Celeborn was referring to Arwen, his granddaughter. Whatever happened to Celeborn (it is not absolutely certain that he did not leave with Galadriel or follow her later), he would have been parted from Arwen after she died.

Actually, I think I remember reading that Celeborn moved to Rivendell after the Ringbearers left, to stay with Elladan and Elrohir. Maybe they all just remained in Middle-Earth and faded, rather than taking ship like Legolas later did. I'm sure there must have been some point when the ships were all gone and it was impossible to take the westward road.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 02-06-2003, 12:08 PM

Whether or not Celeborn left, I'm pretty confident his 'treasure' was Galadriel, and not Lothlorien.

GaladrieloftheOlden · 02-27-2003, 12:47 PM

It did say (in the appendices, I think) that Celeborn did leave across the Sea, just not at the same tiime as Galadriel did.

GaladrieloftheOlden · 02-27-2003, 12:50 PM

Elladan and Elrohir as well, I think. it said somewhere that after Elrond left, they "tarried with their choice" or something like that, but ended up leaving. Also- how exactly does this "fading" happen? Just...slowly disappear? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

02-03-2003, 05:44 PM	#2
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	His lordship was ending and his lady was leaving him for a while. He's hoping that Aragorn's kingship won't end and that his lady will always be there. I think. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

02-03-2003, 07:16 PM	#4
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	I was supposing Celeborn was making reference to the diminishing of the magic of the woods of Lorien and Caras Galadhon. And that he hoped Aragorn's Crown and Kingdom would stay with him until the end. I think. __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

02-03-2003, 07:20 PM	#5
GaladrieloftheOlden Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Massachusetts - digging up a bottomless hole, searching for something that's not there... Posts: 1,514	Celeborn was (I think) not one of the High Elves, which may be a sort of reason that he, even if he did pass over the Sea, would be in a way sundered from Galadriel. Maybe he's hoping that this will not happen to Aragorn with Arwen because they are also of different kindreds. __________________ "Glue... very powerful stuff."

02-03-2003, 07:49 PM	#6
Carrûn Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind you, counting to 3 Posts: 234	I always took it to mean that Celeborn was wishing for Aragorn that Arwen would be with him until he died (the end) since Galadrial had already decided to leave and Celeborn wasn't ready yet or something like that. I never really thought about the two different kindreds being an isssue though, interesting point. __________________ "Dic, hospes, Spartae, nos te hic vidisse iacentes dum sanctis patriae legibus obsequimur."

02-05-2003, 05:14 AM	#7
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	It's also possible that Celeborn was referring to Arwen, his granddaughter. Whatever happened to Celeborn (it is not absolutely certain that he did not leave with Galadriel or follow her later), he would have been parted from Arwen after she died. Actually, I think I remember reading that Celeborn moved to Rivendell after the Ringbearers left, to stay with Elladan and Elrohir. Maybe they all just remained in Middle-Earth and faded, rather than taking ship like Legolas later did. I'm sure there must have been some point when the ships were all gone and it was impossible to take the westward road. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

02-03-2003, 05:47 PM	#3
little_bit_odd Guest Posts: n/a	Perhaps he is telling Aragorn not to cling to the past and become stagnant, but to look to the future.

02-06-2003, 12:08 PM	#8
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Whether or not Celeborn left, I'm pretty confident his 'treasure' was Galadriel, and not Lothlorien. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

02-27-2003, 12:47 PM	#9
GaladrieloftheOlden Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Massachusetts - digging up a bottomless hole, searching for something that's not there... Posts: 1,514	It did say (in the appendices, I think) that Celeborn did leave across the Sea, just not at the same tiime as Galadriel did. __________________ "Glue... very powerful stuff."

02-27-2003, 12:50 PM	#10
GaladrieloftheOlden Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Massachusetts - digging up a bottomless hole, searching for something that's not there... Posts: 1,514	Elladan and Elrohir as well, I think. it said somewhere that after Elrond left, they "tarried with their choice" or something like that, but ended up leaving. Also- how exactly does this "fading" happen? Just...slowly disappear? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] __________________ "Glue... very powerful stuff."