translation help - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

almiel · 08-10-2011, 01:20 PM

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but I'd love some help with a translation!

While trying to figure it out, I stumbled upon an archived post on the translation of "Child of the Lord" (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/archive...p?t-16559.html).

I am also toying with a tattoo idea, and was wondering what the translation for "child of the universe" would be. I know Eä is the Quenya word for universe (not sure if there's a Sindarin equivalent?). From reading those threads, I'm supposing it would be something approximating Eähín (for universe-child), and possibly hína i Eä (? for child of the universe).

But I might be completely off track! Any help would be appreciated.

Pitchwife · 08-12-2011, 07:40 AM

Welcome to the Downs, almiel! As we don't have a special language forum, I'd say this is a good place to post your question.

hína i Eä is fine for "child of the universe" as far as the meaning goes, but Quenya being an inflecting language (unlike Sindarin), you'd have to stick the appropriate case ending to Eä*; for the genitive, this would be -o, giving Eäo, which however looks/sounds horribly awkward with its three vowels in a row (not that it's wrong, it's just a matter of phonaesthetic taste).

Also, Tolkien tends to use Eä as a sort of proper name of the universe, without the article, so I'd drop the i, leaving hína Eäo; but if you'd like to avoid the three-vowel-cluster, your compound Eähin (modelled on Eruhin) actually seems like a good alternative to me.
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*(especially because eä can also mean "it is" in the sense of "it exists", and i can also be the relative pronoun, so hína i eä could be misread as "a child that exists".)

almiel · 08-13-2011, 10:11 AM

Ahh, thank you so much. The grammar was one reason I wanted to check, since I knew it was more complicated than Sindarin.

Follow up inquiry - rendering these into Tengwar. There's an online generator, but I'm not sure if it's correct. This is what it made for both:

Thank you for your help so far.

Galin · 08-13-2011, 12:21 PM

While examples are scarce enough, and if ea is wanted anyway, a form in Namárie suggests that the genitive marker displaces final -a, as there we find Vardo for instance, rather than *Vardao.

I can't recall at the moment if other examples exist where -a is retained.

Pitchwife · 08-13-2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galin

While examples are scarce enough, and if ea is wanted anyway, a form in Namárie suggests that the genitive marker displaces final -a, as there we find Vardo for instance, rather than *Vardao.

I can't recall at the moment if other examples exist where -a is retained.

Methinks you're right - I was misled by Oiolossëo, where the final vowel is retained before the ending, but that's probably because e and o (unlike a and o) are dissimilar enough not to make the resulting cluster too uncouth. We also have in Namárië the form Calaciryo, genitive of Calacirya, so that looks like a rule - which leaves us with hína Eö.

almiel · 08-13-2011, 11:19 PM

Ahh that makes sense, Galin. What would you (either of you, or anyone else, lol) recommend for the Tengwar script then? (I am more than way too rusty on transcribing.)

Galin · 08-15-2011, 07:54 AM

Well I'm no expert, but your second example is almost how I would write hína eo, and by 'almost' I mean take out the carrier for the vowel a (along with the vowel of course), but leave the rest -- hína e[a]o -- and pick a font you find pleasing.

That still leaves you with two vowel carriers for eo, but I'm not sure how else to write this (as it's not a diphthong) if it's the correct form for 'of the universe'.

That is, I'm not sure how else to write it if one necessarily finds two carriers less pleasing to the eye.

08-10-2011, 01:20 PM	#1
almiel Newly Deceased Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 5	translation help I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but I'd love some help with a translation! While trying to figure it out, I stumbled upon an archived post on the translation of "Child of the Lord" (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/archive...p?t-16559.html). I am also toying with a tattoo idea, and was wondering what the translation for "child of the universe" would be. I know Eä is the Quenya word for universe (not sure if there's a Sindarin equivalent?). From reading those threads, I'm supposing it would be something approximating Eähín (for universe-child), and possibly hína i Eä (? for child of the universe). But I might be completely off track! Any help would be appreciated.

08-12-2011, 07:40 AM	#2
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Welcome to the Downs, almiel! As we don't have a special language forum, I'd say this is a good place to post your question. hína i Eä is fine for "child of the universe" as far as the meaning goes, but Quenya being an inflecting language (unlike Sindarin), you'd have to stick the appropriate case ending to Eä; for the genitive, this would be -o, giving Eäo, which however looks/sounds horribly awkward with its three vowels in a row (not that it's wrong, it's just a matter of phonaesthetic taste). Also, Tolkien tends to use Eä as a sort of proper name of the universe, without the article, so I'd drop the i, leaving hína Eäo; but if you'd like to avoid the three-vowel-cluster, your compound Eähin* (modelled on Eruhin) actually seems like a good alternative to me. __________________________________________________ ______________ (especially because eä can also mean "it is" in the sense of "it exists", and i can also be the relative pronoun, so hína i eä* could be misread as "a child that exists".) __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

08-13-2011, 10:11 AM	#3
almiel Newly Deceased Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 5	Ahh, thank you so much. The grammar was one reason I wanted to check, since I knew it was more complicated than Sindarin. Follow up inquiry - rendering these into Tengwar. There's an online generator, but I'm not sure if it's correct. This is what it made for both: Thank you for your help so far.

08-13-2011, 12:21 PM	#4
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,034	While examples are scarce enough, and if ea is wanted anyway, a form in Namárie suggests that the genitive marker displaces final -a, as there we find Vardo for instance, rather than *Vardao. I can't recall at the moment if other examples exist where -a is retained.

08-13-2011, 11:19 PM	#6
almiel Newly Deceased Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 5	Ahh that makes sense, Galin. What would you (either of you, or anyone else, lol) recommend for the Tengwar script then? (I am more than way too rusty on transcribing.)

08-15-2011, 07:54 AM	#7
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,034	Well I'm no expert, but your second example is almost how I would write hína eo, and by 'almost' I mean take out the carrier for the vowel a (along with the vowel of course), but leave the rest -- hína e[a]o -- and pick a font you find pleasing. That still leaves you with two vowel carriers for eo, but I'm not sure how else to write this (as it's not a diphthong) if it's the correct form for 'of the universe'. That is, I'm not sure how else to write it if one necessarily finds two carriers less pleasing to the eye.