Merry able to see 100 miles? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Malton Seadog · 03-20-2011, 02:41 PM

Hi all,

I registered just to ask this question, but I'm sure I'll be a regular poster from now on!

In the 'Flight to the Ford' chapter of FOTR:

Quote:

"What is that other river we can see far away over there?", asked Merry.
"That is Loudwater, the Bruinen of Rivendell", answered Strider.

Now look atthis map and compare their location (just south of the road near the Last Bridge) to the Bruinen at it's nearest point. It's almost 100 miles!

Thoughts?

Galadriel55 · 03-20-2011, 03:06 PM

He didn't have to see the river clearly. Maybe just a line that looks like a break in the trees, but enough for him to identify it as a river.

And welcome to the Downs, Malton!

Feanor of the Peredhil · 03-20-2011, 03:18 PM

It's possible to do, even for mere humans like myself. It depends greatly on the purity of the air and the flatness of the land. As such, it would be impossible in a city, between the smog and the buildings, but is more than possible in a desert. For instance, on one ledge of the Grand Canyon, it's possible to see a mountain that's a hundred miles away. Not just possible, you can't miss it.

And if it's a sunny day, the glare off the water would be fairly telling, even if you couldn't entirely tell what something was otherwise. Welcome!

Mithalwen · 03-20-2011, 03:43 PM

Barbara Strachey deals with this on map 13 of "The Journeys of Frodo", which is far mor detailed. She says of the Loudwater "This must have been much closer than it appears in the maps...which are included in ...the Lord of the Rings. I believe, in fact, that the Loudwater must have made as sharp westward turn beforeswinging southagain to join the Hoarwell. As shown in the map the two would have been some 100 miles apart and the hill would have had to have been a high mountain for to have been visible. Furthermore Aragorn says it runs along the Loudwater for many miles before the Ford (Flight to the Ford)"

Barbara Strachey wasn't a professional cartographer but she was very thorough.

Galadriel55 · 03-20-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Away below them they could see the Road sweeping round the feet of the hills; and to their right a grey river gleamed pale in the thin sunshine. In the distance they glimpsed yet another river in a stony valley half veiled in mist. ~FOTR Flight to the Ford

This passage comes just before the one Malton quoted.

I think that the mist prevented the sun from gleaming off the river. However, at this point, Aragorn+hobbits seem to be on the top of some hill, so they're looking down on the landscape. That way people usually see pretty far.

Morthoron · 03-20-2011, 04:02 PM

MERRY'S BENIGHTED BUT VERY SIGHTED SONG (With apologies to Pete Townsend and The Who)

I know I'm a Hobbit, but here's a surprise
I can be downright Elvish cos' there's magic in my eyes

Hobbits see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles
Oh yeah

If you think you really know me, then I'm just a lousy son-of-a-Took
You don't know half of this halfling from reading about me in a book

Because the joke's on you
Have a mathom or two
I'll put this junk in a pile
Because all the while

Hobbits see for miles and miles
Hobbits see for miles and miles
Hobbits see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles
Oh yeah

The White Tower of Minas Tirith is mine to see on clearer days
You thought that I would need a Palantir to see right through the haze

But you don't believe me
About visual acuity
Then I'll stand on this ridge
And see the Brandywine Bridge

Hobbits see for miles and miles
Hobbits see for miles and miles
Hobbits see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles
Oh yeah

03-20-2011, 03:06 PM	#2
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	He didn't have to see the river clearly. Maybe just a line that looks like a break in the trees, but enough for him to identify it as a river. And welcome to the Downs, Malton! __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

03-20-2011, 03:18 PM	#3
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	It's possible to do, even for mere humans like myself. It depends greatly on the purity of the air and the flatness of the land. As such, it would be impossible in a city, between the smog and the buildings, but is more than possible in a desert. For instance, on one ledge of the Grand Canyon, it's possible to see a mountain that's a hundred miles away. Not just possible, you can't miss it. And if it's a sunny day, the glare off the water would be fairly telling, even if you couldn't entirely tell what something was otherwise. Welcome! __________________ peace

03-20-2011, 03:43 PM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Barbara Strachey deals with this on map 13 of "The Journeys of Frodo", which is far mor detailed. She says of the Loudwater "This must have been much closer than it appears in the maps...which are included in ...the Lord of the Rings. I believe, in fact, that the Loudwater must have made as sharp westward turn beforeswinging southagain to join the Hoarwell. As shown in the map the two would have been some 100 miles apart and the hill would have had to have been a high mountain for to have been visible. Furthermore Aragorn says it runs along the Loudwater for many miles before the Ford (Flight to the Ford)" Barbara Strachey wasn't a professional cartographer but she was very thorough. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-20-2011, 04:02 PM	#6
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,509	MERRY'S BENIGHTED BUT VERY SIGHTED SONG (With apologies to Pete Townsend and The Who) I know I'm a Hobbit, but here's a surprise I can be downright Elvish cos' there's magic in my eyes Hobbits see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles Oh yeah If you think you really know me, then I'm just a lousy son-of-a-Took You don't know half of this halfling from reading about me in a book Because the joke's on you Have a mathom or two I'll put this junk in a pile Because all the while Hobbits see for miles and miles Hobbits see for miles and miles Hobbits see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles Oh yeah The White Tower of Minas Tirith is mine to see on clearer days You thought that I would need a Palantir to see right through the haze But you don't believe me About visual acuity Then I'll stand on this ridge And see the Brandywine Bridge Hobbits see for miles and miles Hobbits see for miles and miles Hobbits see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles Oh yeah __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.