" Saruman is a fool, and a dirty treacherous fool. But the eye is on him." Grishnakh |
Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
12-18-2003, 03:36 PM | #1 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Is Gandalf the only one?
has anyone else in past ages challenged a balrog and won? do you have to be a Maiar to be victorious?
|
12-18-2003, 04:11 PM | #2 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In a box with a fox
Posts: 1,347
|
Yes others have killed balrogs, always by somehow throwing them down cliffs, however, the person doing the killing usually dies in the attempt.
__________________
"Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once." |
12-18-2003, 05:13 PM | #3 |
Haunting Spirit
|
No, all the others were Elfes and not maia spirits. But like Arwen said most died in the attempt, like ecthelion who I tought drowned together with Gothmog lord of the Balrogs.
__________________
A new technology does not add or substract something. It changes everything. |
12-19-2003, 05:45 PM | #4 |
Wight
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atop the peak of Kalormë
Posts: 163
|
Three cases of fighting with Balrogs are reported. Two have already been mentioned (Gandalf, Ecthelion), and the third was Glorfindel, who died fighting a Balrog while escaping with refugees from ruined Gondolin.
|
12-20-2003, 12:23 AM | #5 |
A Northern Soul
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
|
Glorfindel and Ecthelion, Noldorin lords of Gondolin, slew a balrog each, and each died in the process - just as Gandalf did.
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. |
12-20-2003, 11:07 AM | #6 |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Somewhere, wandering in middle earth...
Posts: 137
|
Just wondering- how can elves slay a corrupted maia? they are not as powerful, even though they are elven lords.
__________________
Turin Turambar, Master of Fate, by Fate Mastered. No, im not turin. Or tuor. Or anyone. I am not! |
12-20-2003, 11:29 AM | #7 |
Wight
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 166
|
Tuor, just wondering: why do you add 'Cursed by the Valar' to your name? IIRC, Tuor was the only Man (Human and Elvish alike) who was reckoned to be a Vala! Or is this just a typo for "Túrin Turambar etc"? In that case, his whole family was Doomed, but only by a fromer Vala by the name of Morgoth.
<font size=1 color=339966>[ 12:46 PM December 20, 2003: Message edited by: Earendilyon ]
__________________
"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia. |
12-20-2003, 11:51 AM | #8 |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Somewhere, wandering in middle earth...
Posts: 137
|
To confuse people like you. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
Not a typo, this is my name. It is basically nonsense, but it sounds interesting.
__________________
Turin Turambar, Master of Fate, by Fate Mastered. No, im not turin. Or tuor. Or anyone. I am not! |
12-20-2003, 11:53 AM | #9 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nan Elmoth
Posts: 35
|
to answer tuor's question :
i think they were equal or less powerfull than the elven lords just because of their corruption. Agreed, they had great power and it waxed and waned with melko's but i think their power lessened by their ensaring,but also in that time the Noldoli were mighty indeed. But then again, were the Gondothlim that strong? Because in BOLT Rog slays alot Balrogs.
__________________
'...though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again,from you and from me a new star shall arise' -Huor |
12-20-2003, 01:26 PM | #10 |
Haunting Spirit
|
And the elves were also stronger because they still had the light of the trees in their eyes.
__________________
A new technology does not add or substract something. It changes everything. |
12-20-2003, 02:12 PM | #11 |
Deathless Sun
|
Rog is a fairly controversial character because he is described as slaying several Balrogs, whereas much stronger warriors like Ecthelion and Glorfindel fought one, and still died while killing them. Unless there are different "grades" of Balrogs, with different levels of strength, I don't think that Rog could have slain many Balrogs. Most likely, he would have been able to slay the "weaker" ones.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
12-20-2003, 02:17 PM | #12 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nan Elmoth
Posts: 35
|
hm, is it stated that Glorfindel and Ecthelion were stronger? because it is said that Rog was of a house(don't exactly remember the name) with alot of miners and escaped thralls from melko and they were the strongest ?
correct me if i'm wrong finwe(i'm learning from this [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )
__________________
'...though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again,from you and from me a new star shall arise' -Huor |
12-20-2003, 02:37 PM | #13 |
Deathless Sun
|
True, Rog was of a very strong House, but Ecthelion was one of the greatest captains of Gondolin, which is shown by his guardianship of the last gate. Only one of the strongest could be trusted with that post, and since Ecthelion had charge of it, I assume that he was one of the strongest. As for Glorfindel, I admit, it is an assumption. Perhaps it was mere chance that while they were fighting, the Balrog fell off of the cliff, I'm not sure.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
12-20-2003, 03:05 PM | #14 | ||||
The Kinslayer
|
Quote:
From the Tale Quote:
Quote:
Regarding Rog: Quote:
Also in the Tale, Tuor slew five balrogs too, which cannot be taken to be of the later conception IMO.
__________________
"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
||||
12-22-2003, 10:22 AM | #15 | |
Wight
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 166
|
Tuor, I see you understand [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Quote:
__________________
"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia. |
|
12-22-2003, 03:13 PM | #16 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dol Amroth
Posts: 94
|
Is this the same Glorfindel that came across Frodo and Strider? Or was that another Elf with a very similar name?
__________________
I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset! |
12-22-2003, 03:23 PM | #17 |
Deathless Sun
|
It was the same Glorfindel. He alone of all the Elves was sent back to Middle-earth, to help in the fight against Sauron. I'm assuming that he was sent back because he sacrifced his life so that the future of Beleriand (i.e. Earendil) could be saved. Also, Elves are given a choice, after their period of "atonement" in the Halls of Mandos is over. They can either stay in the Halls of Mandos, or be "reincarnated" into bodies identical to the ones that they "bore" in their previous life. Glorfindel apparently chose the latter, and was thus able to come to Middle-earth to help the Free Peoples fight Sauron.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
12-22-2003, 06:29 PM | #18 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 67
|
Inside Middle-earth, the LOTR Glorfindel is indeed the same as the Gondolin character. Outside (as it were) it was a bit of a fix-up, as I understand it. Tolkien reused the name, and then retrospectively decided that they were the same character. He might have done this also with another reused name - Legolas - but didn't. This makes Glorfindel an interesting character, and possibly one with unfulfilled potential - so far as I'm aware, he was the only reborn elf to return from Valinor to Middle-earth (quite how he returned I'm not sure - are we ever told? Perhaps he came with the Istari). This would suggest some major role or fate, which never in fact happened.
|
|
|