Itaril

[Peterson_Hobbit]

Can someone please remind md who Itaril is in The Hobbit? I do not have a copy handy while i'm traveling.

Cheers!

[Inziladun]

First off, welcome to the Downs!

I am aware of no such person in The Hobbit, at least as far as the book is concerned.

[Pitchwife]

Welcome to the Downs, Peterson_Hobbit!
The Shibboleth of Fëanor gives Itaril (or Itarillë) as the Quenya form of the name Idril, Turgon of Gondolin's daughter, who married Tuor and became Eärendil's mother. Like Inzil has already said, she has no part whatsoever in The Hobbit.

A quick google search of "Itaril hobbit", however, revealed this:

Originally Posted by http://collider.com/casting-info-for-the-hobbit-revealed/13531

[ITARIL] FEMALE, A WOODLAND ELF, this character is one the Silvan Elves. The Silvan Elves are seen as more earthy and practical. Shorter than other elves, she is still quick and lithe and physically adept, being able to fight with both sword and bow. Showing promise as a fighter at a young age, ITARIL was chosen to train to become part of the Woodland King’s Guard. This is the only life she has ever expected to live, until she meets and secretly falls in love with a young ELF LORD. This role will require a wig and contact lenses to be worn. Some prosthetic make-up may also be required. LEAD. AGE: 17-27. ACCENT – STANDARD R.P.

So it seems like PJ & Co. nicked the name for some token female Elf who wasn't in the book either, but whose presence is presumed necessary in order to feed the unwashed movie-watching masses' hunger for on-screen romance. I'm afraid it takes no extraordinary sagacity to guess who the "young Elf lord" she falls in love with is going to be... *shudder*

[Rumil]

And so it begins!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rumil

And so it begins!

But where will it end? With Bilbo crashing the auction and dueling with Otho Sackville-Baggins, who is really possessed by Saruman, and is also Gollum's father?

I really don't see why they have to do that sort of rubbish. I hope that particular character will be left on the cutting-room floor.

[Mithalwen]

And the laws of Hollywood mean it is fine for a 17 year old to play the love interest of a guy twice her age......eww

[Rumil]

Yeah but they'll both be portraying 3000-year olds

(Though the evidence is ambiguous on LG's side iirc)

[Alcuin]

Why doesn’t Hollywood just dispense with all this pretense and do what it really wants to do – make Bored of the Rings instead. From “Of the Finding of the Ring”,

As is told in the volume previous to this hound, Valley of the Trolls, Dildo Bugger set out one day with a band of demented dwarves and a discredited Rosicrucian named Goodgulf to separate a dragon from his hoard of short-term municipals and convertible debentures. The quest was successful, and the dragon, a prewar basilisk who smelled like a bus, was taken from behind while he was clipping coupons...

Surely this is more along the lines of “modern cinema”. Sex sells. So get rid of all this nonsense about “sticking to the story”, and let them … hm … dress it up a bit. Or sell out to Disney. Whatever makes the biggest buck in the shortest time.

After all, how many Hollywood producers have ever actually read a book? Considering the quality of their productions, how many of them actually read? Their lawyers – they can read, of course, but … stick to a story? That’s so gauche! Bring out the voluptuous elf-maidens! Bring out your dead!

[FeRaL sHaDoW]

This always happens in movies to make it more interesting :/ i got 20 riding on we see Legolas in the Hobbit.

[skip spence]

Oh dear, this sounds terrible.

Well, no surprise I guess, in a big block-buster these days there has to be a strong, female character to appeal to a very profitable demographic group.

Mind you, a few plot changes and a couple of new characters aren't inherently bad in my opinion, it could make the film more enjoyable not knowing every twist and turn beforehand. That said, chances are they eff it up. Badly.

[Alcuin]

Then Eorache daughter of Eorlobe is exactly what Hollywood needs! More from “The Riders of Roi-Tan” (ibid.),

As they watched helplessly, the line of riders bore down upon them. Suddenly the centermost figure, whose spiked helmet also boasted two longhorns, gave a vague hand signal to halt and the men reined to a stop in a display of astoundingly inept sheepmanship. … [T]he pronged leader cantered up to the three astride a bull merino of great stature and whiteness, its tail intricately braided with colored rubber bands. … The leader, shorter than the others by a head, looked at them suspiciously through twin monocles and brandished a battlemop. It was then that the company realized that the leader was a woman, a woman whose ample breastplate hinted at a figure of some heft.

“Vere ist you going and vat are you doing here when you are not to being here in der first place vhere you ist?” the leader demanded…

Stomper stepped forward and bowed low… “Hail and greeting, O Lady,” lisped Stomper... “We are wayfarers in your land searching for friends taken by the foul narcs of Sorhed and Serutan. … They are three feet tall with hairy feet and little tails, probably dressed in elvin cloaks…”

The captain of the sheepmen stared at the Ranger dumbly, then turning to her own company beckoned a rider. “Medic! Hurry up, I haf vork for you. Und he ist delirious, also!”

“Nay, beautiful Lady,” said Stomper, “they of whom I speak are boggies, or in the tongue of the elves, hoipolloi. I am their guide, who am called Stomper by some, though I have many names.”

“I bet you do,” agreed the leader, tossing her golden braids. … “I ist Eorache, daughter of Eorlobe, Captain of der Rubbermark and Thane of Chowder…”

See? Ready-made Hollywood heroine with minimum rewrite. And if they want more, the sheep can dance.

[Thinlómien]

Ugh. And if IMDb is to believed, this Itaril will be played by the now 16-year-old Saoirse Ronan...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0903624/

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Ugh. And if IMDb is to believed, this Itaril will be played by the now 16-year-old Saoirse Ronan...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0903624/

Instead of making up a character for her, I say let her be one of the residents of the Last Homely House singing "tra la la la lally", and making good-natured fun of Bilbo.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Oh dear, this sounds terrible.

Well, no surprise I guess, in a big block-buster these days there has to be a strong, female character to appeal to a very profitable demographic group.

"Strong", indeed! There has to be a female character who is young, pretty, and can use a sword (or an equivalent weapon suitable for the story). Therefore, she is a wonderful female role model, which is further emphasised by that her personality, beyond the things mentioned above, is reduced almost to zero, or even below. (Though speaking of that, not that many main male characters are much better in that regard.)

In any case, I don't know what is the reason to bring her in, but what I hate the most are these pseudo-heroines (indeed, pseudo-heroines, because on top of everything else, they are mostly just pitiful less-than-human or less-than-elf or whatnot creatures) invented out of nowhere because there weren't enough women in the books. In LotR, there were few women, but those who were there compensated with their impact and personality (thinking mainly of Galadriel, who would have sufficed for the whole book even if she was alone, and Éowyn, and Ioreth - three great personalities. Oh, and Goldberry. Rosie Cotton and Arwen in brackets, they don't stand out very much, or play any very active role). Unfortunately, there was no woman in the Hobbit (except for Belladona Took - now that would be a worthy character!), but we can surely live with that. We have learned to accept it and like the story as it is. You blasphemers go and make your own movie about something else if you don't like it.

(I have the feeling I have been here before.)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

In any case, I don't know what is the reason to bring her in, but what I hate the most are these pseudo-heroines (indeed, pseudo-heroines, because on top of everything else, they are mostly just pitiful less-than-human or less-than-elf or whatnot creatures) invented out of nowhere because there weren't enough women in the books.

I wonder if Tollers really isn't trying to give PJ an indication that he does not approve of the former's attempts to market the book to a "modern" audience.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

(I have the feeling I have been here before.)

I think many have. I would say its "Arwen redux", except Arwen was at least an actual character in LOTR, albeit one that had absolutely no speaking role in the books until almost the end of the story.

[Alcuin]

Rankin/Bass looks more and more respectable as time goes on.

I once worked for a guy who told me to never let anyone competent take your job after you: it makes you look better by comparison.

[Dilettante]

So it seems like PJ & Co. nicked the name for some token female Elf who wasn't in the book either, but whose presence is presumed necessary in order to feed the unwashed movie-watching masses' hunger for on-screen romance. I'm afraid it takes no extraordinary sagacity to guess who the "young Elf lord" she falls in love with is going to be... *shudder*

*suppressed chuckle* How very apt a description. *SIGH* just when I thought things would turn out well too. I guess we shouldn't be surprised, everyone these days thinks they can "improve" on an already perfect story by "modernizing" it or making it relevant to today.

Good looking strong female roles are put into plots a.) to attract female viewers who want someone in the story they can relate to and b.) to attract men that want to gawk at onscreen females. Because we all know the story just isn't good enough on it's own. My money is on her falling in love with Legolas (who will probably have a scene where he's doing some smithing, because Orlando Bloom seems to play a blacksmith a lot.)

It's Arwen taking Glorfindel's part again....only worse because Arwen is at least an original character.

[Nerwen]

Showing promise as a fighter at a young age, ITARIL was chosen to train to become part of the Woodland King’s Guard. This is the only life she has ever expected to live, until she meets and secretly falls in love with a young ELF LORD.

Ha! I love the way the actual film is converging on the various hoaxes and worst-case scenarios.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Ha! I love the way the actual film is converging on the various hoaxes and worst-case scenarios.

Sadly, Nerwen, I am afraid what was mentioned is a best-case scenario, given PJ's aberrant scriptorial proclivities.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

"Strong", indeed! There has to be a female character who is young, pretty, and can use a sword (or an equivalent weapon suitable for the story). Therefore, she is a wonderful female role model

Yeah, what's the deal with that? A positive female role-model on screen has to be wafer-thin and petite yet all too adept at beating up/slicing up/shooting people, or men to be more precise. Angelina Jolie, I'm looking at you.

[Galadriel55]

I wonder how much this Itaril is going to resemble Eowyn. Let me guess...
Thranduil will die in the middle of the Battle of 5 armies.
Legolas will take over.
He'll get wounded/will be dying.
Itarill will come in her shieldwoman armour and save Legolas.
Itaril saves the day!

...not.

PS: Shouldn't this be in the movies forum?

[Galadriel55]

PPS: I think that Itaril will be a better actor than this! *and they don't even say the role here!*

[Pitchwife]

I wouldn't say that - looking at that pic, Geordie does have a certain charismatic presence, wouldn't you say? As for his role, it makes me hope we'll see Beorn's housekeeping animals after all, even though it looks like Beorn himself is going to be replaced by Radagast, who I suppose will enter the Battle of Five Armies at the last moment, riding on Geordie, and save the day; Geordie of course will have the honour of finishing Bolg by running him through with his single horn.

Further speculations:

• Either Itaril or Leggie or both will conspire with Bilbo to free the Dwarves, defying Thranduil's orders.
• Itaril will meet a tragical heroic death in the Bo5A, causing Leggie to go berserk and vent his grief by killing a few mumakil. (What do you say, there weren't any in that battle? How narrow minded... What are a few uncanonicities among friends?)
• Finally, with Leggie in the film, another bowman would be quite redundant, so guess who gets to shoot Smaug? Bingo. Bye bye Bard...

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Lord almighty. What is it with these people? If they're going to "re-imagine" a classic work of fiction into fanfic, the least they could do is steal from a good piece of fanfic rather than some godawful Mary Sue. Is that really the best these "professional" writers can do? Must go slam head into wall...

[Alcuin]

Beorn replaced by Radagast?
Well I’m aghast!

Since Beorn transformed into an enormous bear, will Radagast transform into an enormous goat?

Was it the psychedelic coloring of the goat that induced them to introduce it into the movie?

Is the “laugh-a-minute” beastie somehow an inside joke that they’ve “got Tolkien’s goat”?

Originally Posted by Letters of JRRT #198

As far as I am concerned personally, I should welcome the idea of an animated motion picture, with all the risk of vulgarization; and that quite apart from the glint of money… I think I should find vulgarization less painful than sillification…

[Peterson_Hobbit]

Thanks for all the great answers! Y'all are rockstars.

As you can easily surmise, my suspicions/interest around the Itaril character were aroused when I read an article about the movie and read the name: "Itaril". I couldn't remember an Itaril in The Hobbit, but, I knew a quick post out on The Downs would satisfy my query.

Thanks all!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Now that we've found out that this character name belongs to the movies, I'm moving the thread to that forum. Enjoy reading and posting there!

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I wouldn't say that - looking at that pic, Geordie does have a certain charismatic presence, wouldn't you say? As for his role, it makes me hope we'll see Beorn's housekeeping animals after all, even though it looks like Beorn himself is going to be replaced by Radagast, who I suppose will enter the Battle of Five Armies at the last moment, riding on Geordie, and save the day; Geordie of course will have the honour of finishing Bolg by running him through with his single horn.

.[/LIST]

I think Beorn has been cast ..some strapping Swedish chap whose name escapes me. Radagast is no doubt included to bulk out the white council and justify the two film thing (kerching!).

[Dimturiel]

Is it just me, or does anyone else fear that this Itaril person is going to pull an Arwen and be the one who shoots Smaug? Either that, or she's going to be the first one to discover Bilbo took Gollum's ring or something along these lines that would make the audience think that the story would not have been able to move forward without her presence (when the original story had moved forward quite nicely without her being there, thank you very much).

And why is it a requirment to have a female in every film so that the girls in the audience don't feel offended or left out because they have no one to relate to? Who would relate to her anyway? I know I won't, judging from what she sounds like. (Why would I want to relate to someone in the king's guard, waving her sword all over the place and having adventures? (shudders). Nasty things. Make you late for supper. See? I'm already relating to one of the characters, actually, exactly to the one I - and any other pesron in the audience, because, let's be honest, we're all more hobbits than heroes - was expected to relate to in the first place). And who thought up this character anyway? She sounds like something a 13 year old would invent, trying to make up an idealised version of herself. (How old are PJ's kids now, by the way? Maybe they had a hand in inventing Itaril?). Believe me, I know, I used to make up characters like that too. I grew out of it. Also, one has to wonder if the population of the Woodland Elves is decreasing so dramatically, that they have to resort to employing andolescent Elf-maidens to join the King's Guard.

And ayway, would this movie - or any movie for that matter - really not sell unless it had a cheesy romance in it? I mean, to me The Hobbit was more about, well, growing up, in a way, and learning to do what's right and all that. It was originally a children's book and it was destined to entertain and teach children. It was never intended for dreamy teenagers who think the only thing that counts in this world is lurv.

By the way, while I was writing this, I just had a mental image of a scene after Bilbo takes the Arkenstone, with Itaril waving it in front of Thorin, and telling him:If you want the Arkenstone, come and claim it, or something equally horrific.

[Morthoron]

Itaril has vibrant violet eyes, but because of her orphaned and violent childhood (an attack by orcs killed her parents), she is blind. But blindness in Elfesses merely grants them extraordinary psychic powers. She can actually see better blind! Riding forth from Mirkwood on her long-maned pony named Brandy (short for Brandywine), she fights injustice, wielding two Elven daggers and a bow of crystal called Teh Cuthalion.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Itaril has vibrant violet eyes, but because of her orphaned and violent childhood (an attack by orcs killed her parents), she is blind. But blindness in Elfesses merely grants them extraordinary psychic powers. She can actually see better blind! Riding forth from Mirkwood on her long-maned pony named Brandy (short for Brandywine), she fights injustice, wielding two Elven daggers and a bow of crystal called Teh Cuthalion.

I see RPG parody potential here that would compete with MarySue Whynniel (sorry, Estelyn, I cannot remember the correct spelling of her illustrious name).

I don't think we've done role plays that parody the movies, have we? Or would that not be regarded as Canonical enough?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I see RPG parody potential here that would compete with MarySue Whynniel (sorry, Estelyn, I cannot remember the correct spelling of her illustrious name).

I don't think we've done role plays that parody the movies, have we? Or would that not be regarded as Canonical enough?

In addition, Itaril teaches Legolas how to shield surf, as well as coiffing his hair with all those lustrous plaits and braids. Such body, such bounce!

[piosenniel]

And in addition to those vibrant violet eyes, she has flame red tresses . . .

[Mithalwen]

She needs a trained hawk maybe....and is secretly really of extremely noble birth -why else would a silvan elf have a Quenya name? The name of Elrond's granny no less...

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

She needs a trained hawk maybe....and is secretly really of extremely noble birth -why else would a silvan elf have a Quenya name? The name of Elrond's granny no less...

Because, unbeknownst to us, her silvan parents -- who were killed when she was an infant -- were merely foster parents. In reality, she is Galadriel's love child!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

In reality, she is Galadriel's love child!

That would explain Galadriel's role in TH.

[Dilettante]

HARK! I think I smell a Mary-Sue. You can tell because they smell so sweet they make you nauseated.

(ROFL at all the Mary-Sue comments, I think I have read every one of those attributes in one fanfic or another. )

Really one does have to wonder what PJ and Co. are thinking. Mary-Sues are frowned upon by pretty much everyone, so I just don't get why a script writer would think they were appropriate for the silver screen. (Not that this Itarily-whatshername IS a Sue, but it's really starting to seem that way.)

I'm a female, yes, but I have no trouble at all relating to non-female characters. I relate just fine to dear old Bilbo when he's worried about adventures making one late for dinner, when 13 uninvited and unexpected guests show up and start rummaging through the kitchen (that's the stuff of nightmares) and I would certainly scream myself at the words may never return.

I can even relate a bit to that old miser Smaug who gets rather heated (literally) when a hobbit pinches a cup that he never looks at and barely remembers he owns.

Really I don't know why filmmakers think that you have to have romance to tell a good story. Frankly, romance gets a little dull and predictable after a while, there's only so much you can do with it.

[Bêthberry]

I think the truly subversive character is going to be Mrs. Smaug.

Originally Posted by Dilettante

HARK! I think I smell a Mary-Sue. You can tell because they smell so sweet they make you nauseated.

(ROFL at all the Mary-Sue comments, I think I have read every one of those attributes in one fanfic or another. )

Dilettante, if you get a bang out of Mary-Sues, do take a look at the role playing game called REB (Revenge of the Entish Bow) which was written here by diehard, absolutely canonical Tolkien fans here on the Downs. You can find the game in our Elvenhome, where finished games go: Revenge of the Entish Bow. There's also a sequel! Enjoy!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I see RPG parody potential here that would compete with MarySue Whynniel (sorry, Estelyn, I cannot remember the correct spelling of her illustrious name).

Ahem! Mister Morthoron has in fact clearly based Itaril on this RPG character. If only I were sixteen again, I'd threaten legal action immediately.

Setiously, Esty– remember we actually did start another parody RPG a couple of years ago, only it didn't last very long. I think the problem was we went a little overboard in trying to make the characters absolutely authentic Mary Sues– they all ended up so self-absorbed they could barely interact with one another at all.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Ahem! Mister Morthoron has in fact clearly based Itaril on this RPG character. If only I were sixteen again, I'd threaten legal action immediately.

Setiously, Esty– remember we actually did start another parody RPG a couple of years ago, only it didn't last very long. I think the problem was we went a little overboard in trying to make the characters absolutely authentic Mary Sues– they all ended up so self-absorbed they could barely interact with one another at all.

But...but...my character, Amarthanuin the Noegedhil, had to be self-absorbed -- he was a Dwelf, for pity's sake! A Dwelf can do aught but languish in angst!

And yes, like a drunken sword-swallower on the Titanic, that story was a disaster waiting to happen.