Balin jealous of Bilbo's ring? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Liriodendron · 01-29-2003, 02:50 PM

Balin was the dwarf most interested in Bilbo's ring. Do you think this provoked his ill-fated return to Moria, in search of the ring of Thror? What powers would it have given him? (If it had been there, instead of with Sauron)

eleanor_niphredil · 01-29-2003, 02:53 PM

Nah, surley not. Balin was just concerned for Bilbo, as he was the one who liked him best.

lore_master · 01-29-2003, 02:58 PM

i dont realy think so. I Think it was just to get away from Dain over his shoulder on everything he did. i know that this has alredy been said and arued, but i think that Balin was envius of Dain seeing as how he was closer to Thorin than Dain.

just my opinion [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Liriodendron · 01-29-2003, 03:30 PM

Poor old Balin! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

**lindil** · 01-29-2003, 03:42 PM

A curious idea, I recently wrote down most of my thoughts re: Balin and is ill-fated quest to Moria here.
But I did not mention the strange comment of Gloin at the council of Elrond that "It was partially in the hopes of finding Thror's ring that Balin went to Moria.

Curious on 2 counts:

1. that he did not know, from Thorin that it had been passed on to Thrain, but not Thorin [goes to show how secretive Dwarves are!] and
2. That Balin was indeed perhaps trying to one-up [or in this case 2 two-up] Dain, by being Lord of Moria andhopefully the bearer of the Ring of the House of Durin.

In fact that seriously re-inforces the idea of my above thread.

As for Balin being jealous of Bilbo/'s Ring.

I doubt it, but it certainly may have given him the idea that great luck might go with it, just as seemed to go with Bilbo's Ring.

Liriodendron · 01-29-2003, 04:05 PM

That's funny Lindil, I didn't read your bit about Balin when I asked my question. We're having similar thoughts. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I just picture Balin asking Bilbo to tell him the story over and over again, as a nice "start" to his desire to own a ring of power. Bilbo's escapades with the ring's help were mighty impressive! I'll read your words now! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Liriodendron · 01-29-2003, 04:25 PM

Well now, If Balin had been able to find the ring and become a "Ring bearer", he would have most definitely upped Dain (IMO). So no, I guess he wasn't "jealous" of Bilbo's ring, he was jealous of Dain! A ring of power makes a very definitive statementon "Who's who"! I guess he was extremely impressed by Bilbo's ring.

Mattius · 01-29-2003, 04:46 PM

I don't think he was intentionally jealous if it is shown that he is, as it is the RING OF POWER and therefore people will be drawn to it a la Boromir etc.

Rumil · 01-29-2003, 04:56 PM

I think you're painting Balin as a bit of an underhanded scheming type here. Thats certainly not the impression I had when reading the Hobbit. Balin seems to be the 'best' of the Dwarves, reasonably courageous, not as arrogant as Thorin and most friendly to the 'professional treasure seeker'.

I think Balin eventually became a little bored with Erebor, he seems the most 'adventurous' of the original 13 Dwarves. Also Dain had the responsibility of a kingdom to run so couldn't be expected to lead the expedition to Moria.

Balin then seems the perfect choice to go to Moria, after all he'd already been instrumental in restoring one Dwarven kingdom, why not a second?

As for the seventh ring, I doubt the Dwarves really expected to find it in Moria, after all Sauron certainly wouldn't have left it in the hands of some brigand or orc chieftain. It was an outside chance at best though certainly Bilbo's exploits and, later, Sauron's emissary must have focussed the minds of the Dwarves on the subject of rings.

[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Rumil ]

Mattius · 01-29-2003, 04:58 PM

Sorry, it was not my intent to make he seem bad, I was just saying that any jealousy that could be found of Bilbo's ring may have come from the fact that it is the Ring of Power.

Kuruharan · 01-29-2003, 11:47 PM

I pretty much answered this in the original thread, but there is something that should be mentioned here.

At that moment in time, nobody knew that Bilbo's ring was the One Ring. Gandalf only (very partially) suspected it at that moment. Balin certainly had no inkling of it. There was no real reason to connect it to the Rings of Power, at least to the uninitiated. To Balin it was just "Bilbo's funny magic ring." Almost a toy, a very useful toy, but still something of a toy. And I seriously doubt that Balin was close enough long enough to really feel any "pull" from the Ring. And Dwarves were not given to that sort of thing anyway, aside from aesthetic value, of course.

*Sigh!* Everyone seems to be raining on Balin's parade of late.

[ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-30-2003, 05:21 AM

Balin surely wasn't that interested in the Ring. Of course, Bilbo had used it to trick Balin and whenever Balin thought about the Ring he would remember that funny little story, almost a fond memory of the Quest.

I don't think Rings of Power had anything to do with the expedition to Moria.

**lindil** · 01-30-2003, 01:56 PM

Quote:

I don't think Rings of Power had anything to do with the expedition to Moria.

Gloin did.

Quote:

Indeed, I may now reveal that it was partly to find that ring that Balin went away.

Inderjit Sanghera · 01-30-2003, 02:19 PM

But surely Balin would've known that the Ring of Durin's house was taken by Sauron off Thrain. Unless it was another ring he was seeking for?

Aredhelaran · 01-30-2003, 04:53 PM

No, In the Fellowhip of the Ring it is clearly stated that Balin went back to Moria partly in hopes of finding Thror's ring.

Mattius · 01-30-2003, 05:04 PM

And what exactly would the ring have done to Balin (the dwarf ring not the One Ring)?

[ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: Mattius ]

Kuruharan · 01-30-2003, 07:02 PM

Evidently, made him very greedy.

**lindil** · 01-30-2003, 08:10 PM

By the way Kuruharan, I feel I am defending balin's honour also, I think he should have been lord of Erebor, not Dain. I am not in any way implying wrong-doing on balin's part.

Kuruharan · 01-31-2003, 07:16 PM

Well, I said I was self-appointed. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

01-29-2003, 02:50 PM	#1
Liriodendron Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 527	Balin jealous of Bilbo's ring? Balin was the dwarf most interested in Bilbo's ring. Do you think this provoked his ill-fated return to Moria, in search of the ring of Thror? What powers would it have given him? (If it had been there, instead of with Sauron) __________________ http://www.lizmargason.com

01-29-2003, 02:53 PM	#2
eleanor_niphredil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: england Posts: 805	Nah, surley not. Balin was just concerned for Bilbo, as he was the one who liked him best. __________________ Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to spend my time on this forum. And by the way, for any of you turning into a penguin, stop it. ~* I am Pippin took in the Female Fellowship*~

01-29-2003, 02:58 PM	#3
lore_master Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Valhalla Posts: 116	i dont realy think so. I Think it was just to get away from Dain over his shoulder on everything he did. i know that this has alredy been said and arued, but i think that Balin was envius of Dain seeing as how he was closer to Thorin than Dain. just my opinion [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It is not as wide as you think

01-29-2003, 03:30 PM	#4
Liriodendron Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 527	Poor old Balin! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ http://www.lizmargason.com

01-29-2003, 03:42 PM	#5
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	A curious idea, I recently wrote down most of my thoughts re: Balin and is ill-fated quest to Moria here. But I did not mention the strange comment of Gloin at the council of Elrond that "It was partially in the hopes of finding Thror's ring that Balin went to Moria. Curious on 2 counts: 1. that he did not know, from Thorin that it had been passed on to Thrain, but not Thorin [goes to show how secretive Dwarves are!] and 2. That Balin was indeed perhaps trying to one-up [or in this case 2 two-up] Dain, by being Lord of Moria andhopefully the bearer of the Ring of the House of Durin. In fact that seriously re-inforces the idea of my above thread. As for Balin being jealous of Bilbo/'s Ring. I doubt it, but it certainly may have given him the idea that great luck might go with it, just as seemed to go with Bilbo's Ring. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

01-29-2003, 04:05 PM	#6
Liriodendron Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 527	That's funny Lindil, I didn't read your bit about Balin when I asked my question. We're having similar thoughts. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I just picture Balin asking Bilbo to tell him the story over and over again, as a nice "start" to his desire to own a ring of power. Bilbo's escapades with the ring's help were mighty impressive! I'll read your words now! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ http://www.lizmargason.com

01-29-2003, 04:25 PM	#7
Liriodendron Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 527	Well now, If Balin had been able to find the ring and become a "Ring bearer", he would have most definitely upped Dain (IMO). So no, I guess he wasn't "jealous" of Bilbo's ring, he was jealous of Dain! A ring of power makes a very definitive statementon "Who's who"! I guess he was extremely impressed by Bilbo's ring. __________________ http://www.lizmargason.com

01-29-2003, 04:46 PM	#8
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	I don't think he was intentionally jealous if it is shown that he is, as it is the RING OF POWER and therefore people will be drawn to it a la Boromir etc. __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

01-29-2003, 04:56 PM	#9
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	I think you're painting Balin as a bit of an underhanded scheming type here. Thats certainly not the impression I had when reading the Hobbit. Balin seems to be the 'best' of the Dwarves, reasonably courageous, not as arrogant as Thorin and most friendly to the 'professional treasure seeker'. I think Balin eventually became a little bored with Erebor, he seems the most 'adventurous' of the original 13 Dwarves. Also Dain had the responsibility of a kingdom to run so couldn't be expected to lead the expedition to Moria. Balin then seems the perfect choice to go to Moria, after all he'd already been instrumental in restoring one Dwarven kingdom, why not a second? As for the seventh ring, I doubt the Dwarves really expected to find it in Moria, after all Sauron certainly wouldn't have left it in the hands of some brigand or orc chieftain. It was an outside chance at best though certainly Bilbo's exploits and, later, Sauron's emissary must have focussed the minds of the Dwarves on the subject of rings. [ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Rumil ] __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

01-29-2003, 04:58 PM	#10
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	Sorry, it was not my intent to make he seem bad, I was just saying that any jealousy that could be found of Bilbo's ring may have come from the fact that it is the Ring of Power. __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

01-29-2003, 11:47 PM	#11
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,591	I pretty much answered this in the original thread, but there is something that should be mentioned here. At that moment in time, nobody knew that Bilbo's ring was the One Ring. Gandalf only (very partially) suspected it at that moment. Balin certainly had no inkling of it. There was no real reason to connect it to the Rings of Power, at least to the uninitiated. To Balin it was just "Bilbo's funny magic ring." Almost a toy, a very useful toy, but still something of a toy. And I seriously doubt that Balin was close enough long enough to really feel any "pull" from the Ring. And Dwarves were not given to that sort of thing anyway, aside from aesthetic value, of course. Sigh! Everyone seems to be raining on Balin's parade of late. [ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: Kuruharan ] __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

01-30-2003, 05:21 AM	#12
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Balin surely wasn't that interested in the Ring. Of course, Bilbo had used it to trick Balin and whenever Balin thought about the Ring he would remember that funny little story, almost a fond memory of the Quest. I don't think Rings of Power had anything to do with the expedition to Moria. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

01-30-2003, 02:19 PM	#14
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	But surely Balin would've known that the Ring of Durin's house was taken by Sauron off Thrain. Unless it was another ring he was seeking for? __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

01-30-2003, 04:53 PM	#15
Aredhelaran Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 31	No, In the Fellowhip of the Ring it is clearly stated that Balin went back to Moria partly in hopes of finding Thror's ring.

01-30-2003, 05:04 PM	#16
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	And what exactly would the ring have done to Balin (the dwarf ring not the One Ring)? [ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: Mattius ] __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

01-30-2003, 07:02 PM	#17
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,591	Evidently, made him very greedy. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

01-30-2003, 08:10 PM	#18
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	By the way Kuruharan, I feel I am defending balin's honour also, I think he should have been lord of Erebor, not Dain. I am not in any way implying wrong-doing on balin's part. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

01-31-2003, 07:16 PM	#19
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,591	Well, I said I was self-appointed. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...