The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-29-2003, 08:26 AM   #1
Airehiriel
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 470
Airehiriel has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril Why the name Sharkey?

It has been a while since I read RotK, but I have a question that has been in the back of my mind since. Why on earth did Tolkien give Saruman the name Sharkey? After all the ME names and places, and adventures that we went on through the book, Sharkey just sticks out so much. It seems to me, out of place.

Does anyone know how the name Sharkey came about or what Tolkien's reasoning was? As I said, to me, it seemed to be out of the flow of the rest of the book.

Thanks
__________________
Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty? Job 11:7
Airehiriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2003, 08:30 AM   #2
Rimbaud
The Perilous Poet
 
Rimbaud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Heart of the matter
Posts: 1,062
Rimbaud has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

Sharkey is a derivation of Sharkû, meaning 'Old Man' in Orkish. Other inferences are unclear. It may also be a reference to the Old Man who was the leader of the Assassins in Mandeville's Travels but this has always struck me as tenuous at best.

[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Rimbaud ]
__________________
And all the rest is literature
Rimbaud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2003, 08:33 AM   #3
Jurion
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 85
Jurion has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Sharkey means 'Old Man' in Orcish as Rimbaud said and that was what some Orcs called Saruman.
Jurion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2003, 08:35 AM   #4
Inderjit Sanghera
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 716
Inderjit Sanghera has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I though 'Sharku' was Orcish for old man.
__________________
“If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube.

"Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone
Inderjit Sanghera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2003, 09:02 AM   #5
Rimbaud
The Perilous Poet
 
Rimbaud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Heart of the matter
Posts: 1,062
Rimbaud has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

Indeed, Sharkey is thereof a derivation.
__________________
And all the rest is literature
Rimbaud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2003, 10:08 AM   #6
Airehiriel
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 470
Airehiriel has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Thanks, guys! Now it makes a lot of sense. Every time I read that name, instead of getting the idea of Saruman, an evil wizard, I was getting the mental image of some young 50's street punk in a leather jacket, whose nickname was Sharkey! It amused me greatly, but didn't seem to make sense to me. Now the word takes on a whole new connotation.
__________________
Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty? Job 11:7
Airehiriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2003, 11:09 AM   #7
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh
Spectre of Decay
 
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bar-en-Danwedh
Posts: 2,178
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh is a guest at the Prancing Pony.The Squatter of Amon Rûdh is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Send a message via AIM to The Squatter of Amon Rûdh
Sting

I've a feeling that Tolkien intended for people to think of second-rate criminals when they heard the name. For me Saruman's new nickname encapsulates his fall from chief Istar to cheap hood rather well.
__________________
Man kenuva métim' andúne?
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2003, 01:43 PM   #8
Lyra Greenleaf
The Diaphanous Dryad
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: R toL: 531, past the wild path
Posts: 1,152
Lyra Greenleaf has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Yeah, I love that, the fact that "SARUMAN THE WHITE" all big and important, has become this 2-bit crook, 'sharkey'. I can imagine himrunning a protection racket or something! its hardly a respectful nickname is it?

and instead of all ME all he can hold dominion over are this little hobbits!

it shows the levels of his spite well that he actually does this, cos you'd think his pride would stop him really.
__________________
“Sylphs of the forest,” I whispered. “Spirits of oak, beech and ash. Dryads of Rowan and hazel, hear us. You who have guided and guarded our every footstep, you who have sheltered our growth, we honour you."
the Forbidden Link
Lyra Greenleaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2003, 04:46 PM   #9
Aredhelaran
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 31
Aredhelaran has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

SHarku is Orkish for Old man. IN Isengeard they called Saruman either Sharku or Sharkey. Saruman seems to have brought some of his Orc0like men north with him, which is probably why he was called Sharkey
Aredhelaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2003, 07:47 PM   #10
Rosseiliantiel
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hopelessly lost
Posts: 174
Rosseiliantiel has just left Hobbiton.
The Eye

The name Sharkey...just makes me laugh. Sharku, yes. Sharkey...just doesn't fit to well. But it's funny!
__________________
Whatever floats your oyster.
Rosseiliantiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2003, 05:41 AM   #11
the guy who be short
Shadowed Prince
 
the guy who be short's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thulcandra
Posts: 2,343
the guy who be short has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

i knew sharkey was derived from sharku, old man, but i never thought about how this affects him as a character, going from saruman the white to sharkey
thank you to evrybody! you are all very clever!
the guy who be short is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:22 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.