How did Faramir know? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lhunardawen · 07-27-2003, 08:18 PM

I have been wondering about this for so long, ever since I finished reading RotK. How did Faramir know that Aragorn is the King after he was healed by him? They haven't seen each other before that happened, and I can't think of a possible reason why he easily recognized Aragorn as the king and called him so. Any explanations?

Gorwingel · 07-27-2003, 08:23 PM

Maybe it was because he did heal him and maybe Faramir knew that the heir of Isildur had healing powers. Maybe it was also because of his very kingly personality.

I do think that Faramir and Aragorn had met though, before the whole War of the Ring thing (though I could be terribly mistaken)

Lhunardawen · 07-27-2003, 08:34 PM

Oh, yes. Faramir has seen Aragorn, but he was very young then, and Aragorn was known as Thorongil.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 07-28-2003, 09:22 AM

When Faramir was healed he probably had quite a good idea of the horrors he had just been through. He would have guessed that only the King could have brought him back from what he had experienced.

Lord of Angmar · 07-28-2003, 10:42 AM

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Maybe it was because he did heal him and maybe Faramir knew that the heir of Isildur had healing powers.

I agree, Gorwingel. In the book it says something along the lines of, "the hand of the King is the hand of the Healer" (I would provide the exact quote if I had a copy of RotK available). As a Son of Gondor and a Captain of her army, I am sure Faramir would know this quite well, and also perhaps his "Elvish" senses detected an aura of a man of the line of Elendil.

Lord of Angmar · 07-28-2003, 10:45 AM

Also, Faramir probably had tidings of Aragorn, from hints dropped by Frodo and Sam in Ithilien and because of the news of Boromir's death after his trip to Imladris, etc.

Kuruharan · 07-28-2003, 02:41 PM

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Oh, yes. Faramir has seen Aragorn, but he was very young then, and Aragorn was known as Thorongil.

Indeed, Faramir was an incredibly young man when Aragorn served Ecthelion II as Thorongil. Faramir was a whopping -3 at the time.

I think the healing combined with an innate sense of just "knowing" was what tipped him off.

Turambar · 07-28-2003, 03:11 PM

It's almost impossible to find a plot hole in Tolkien, but this sure seems like one. The explanations given above aren't very compelling.

tinewelt · 07-28-2003, 03:30 PM

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suddenly Faramir stirred, and he opened his eyes, and he looked on Aragorn who bent over him; and a light of knowledge and love was kindled in his eyes, and he spoke softly 'My lord, you called me. I come. What does the king command?

of course we do not know this for certain, but my guess is that when Aragorn "called" Faramir, he (faramir) probably heard as well as seen Aragorn as a vision, and knew that he was king. As already stated, he knew the hands of the king were the hands of a healer. Also, when the quote says Faramir had a light of knowledge and love kindled in his eyes, I am guessing that knowledge was given to him at that moment that Aragorn was in fact the king. Maybe given by Illuvatar himself!!??? who knows. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

**The Saucepan Man** · 07-28-2003, 05:08 PM

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Also, Faramir probably had tidings of Aragorn, from hints dropped by Frodo and Sam in Ithilien

Indeed he did. From The Window on the West:

Quote:

"So!" said Faramir. "I wish then to learn from you more of it; for what concerns Boromir concerns me ... Had you this thing in keeping? It is hidden, you say; but is not that because you choose to hide it?"

"No, not because I choose," answered Frodo. "It does not belong to me. It does not belong to any mortal, great or small; though if any could claim it, it would be Aragron son of Arathorn, whom I named, leader of our Company from Moria to Rauros."

"Why so, and not Boromir, prince of the City that the sons of Elendil founded?"

"Because Aragorn is descended in direct lineage, father to father, from Isildur Elendil's son himself. And the sword that he bears was Elendil's sword."

OK, so that does not explain how Faramir recognised the healer that he saw when he awoke as Aragorn, the man whom Frodo had told him was Isildur's heir and therefore rightful heir to the throne of Gondor. But he would have realised from his conversation with Frodo that Aragorn was likely to show up in Minas Tirith claiming his throne. This knowledge, combined with Aragorn's obvious healing skills, and Faramir's innate awareness suggested by the quote given by tinewelt seems sufficient to me, without more, to justify his recognition of his King.

Morgoth the Great · 07-28-2003, 08:05 PM

"The Hands of a healer are the hands of a king, thus spoke Ioref-wisewoman of the city" Faramir would of known that only the king could of recalled him from the black breath

Maeglanthirion · 07-29-2003, 12:00 AM

I agree with Morgoth the Great. That quote i remember from the book. The hands of the Healer thing should have been quite a large hint that Aragorn was King. Being son of Denethor, he would definately know about this.

**lindil** · 07-29-2003, 12:09 AM

In addition to the above reasons [excepting Faramir and thorondil meeting [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ] I would only add that Aragorn would obviously appear as Dunedain nobility, and if I recall wearing the Star of Elendil as a clasp.

So how many Dundeain nobles in Gondor did faramir not know?

Osse · 07-29-2003, 02:00 AM

We must take into account that aragorn healed not only with his body, but with his mind. He gives us this impression when he talks to the people he had cured; "i called long for you." (please excuse rough quotes) " i searched for you and pulled you from the darkness".

When he was 'calling' to faramir, i always imagined him saying something along the lines of; "Faramir, come back to the light. I am Elessar, your king, and i command it."
(perhaps not exactly like that but it's hard to explain nes pas?)

This is not a plot hole, but allows use of the readers imagination. If you look at it purely on what was said and done, there is enough to spur your imagination, yet (as someone said above, but i heartily disagree) not enough to just use the facts. Even without using my imagination i am convinced.

Osse

Lhunardawen · 08-02-2003, 01:32 AM

Wow, Osse, I haven't thought of it that way. I am not sure if it happened that way but there is a possibility.

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Feanor of the Peredhil · 08-02-2003, 06:28 PM

Boromir claimed to 'see Frodo's mind', so perhaps Faramir could see Aragorn's.

On a more serious note, as was aforementioned, Ioreth's quippings were probably well known. Add that to his knowledge given by Frodo, his ability to see people's minds and intentions (handed down by his dear old pyromaniac dad), and the fact that Aragorn had somehow managed to pull him from the jaws of death, I'd say that there was a good chance that Faramir could put 27 and 34 together and come up with 61. (I refrain from 2+2 because it was slightly more complicated than that.) Or it was just the sort of thing that you 'know'.

Fea

07-27-2003, 08:18 PM	#1
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	How did Faramir know? I have been wondering about this for so long, ever since I finished reading RotK. How did Faramir know that Aragorn is the King after he was healed by him? They haven't seen each other before that happened, and I can't think of a possible reason why he easily recognized Aragorn as the king and called him so. Any explanations?

07-27-2003, 08:23 PM	#2
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	Maybe it was because he did heal him and maybe Faramir knew that the heir of Isildur had healing powers. Maybe it was also because of his very kingly personality. I do think that Faramir and Aragorn had met though, before the whole War of the Ring thing (though I could be terribly mistaken) __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

07-28-2003, 09:22 AM	#4
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	When Faramir was healed he probably had quite a good idea of the horrors he had just been through. He would have guessed that only the King could have brought him back from what he had experienced. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

07-28-2003, 10:45 AM	#6
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Also, Faramir probably had tidings of Aragorn, from hints dropped by Frodo and Sam in Ithilien and because of the news of Boromir's death after his trip to Imladris, etc. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

07-28-2003, 03:11 PM	#8
Turambar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Non-Stop Home Posts: 859	It's almost impossible to find a plot hole in Tolkien, but this sure seems like one. The explanations given above aren't very compelling. __________________ In the upper air the fireflies move more slowly.

07-27-2003, 08:34 PM	#3
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	Oh, yes. Faramir has seen Aragorn, but he was very young then, and Aragorn was known as Thorongil.

07-28-2003, 08:05 PM	#11
Morgoth the Great Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Thangorodrim Posts: 59	"The Hands of a healer are the hands of a king, thus spoke Ioref-wisewoman of the city" Faramir would of known that only the king could of recalled him from the black breath __________________ Walking to Rivendell: 130 miles. tiring it is too precious....

07-29-2003, 12:00 AM	#12
Maeglanthirion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 47	I agree with Morgoth the Great. That quote i remember from the book. The hands of the Healer thing should have been quite a large hint that Aragorn was King. Being son of Denethor, he would definately know about this. __________________ "I see in your eyes, the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come, when the courage of men fails, and we break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. This day, we fight!..."

07-29-2003, 12:09 AM	#13
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	In addition to the above reasons [excepting Faramir and thorondil meeting [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ] I would only add that Aragorn would obviously appear as Dunedain nobility, and if I recall wearing the Star of Elendil as a clasp. So how many Dundeain nobles in Gondor did faramir not know? __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

07-29-2003, 02:00 AM	#14
Osse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Encircling Sea, deciding which ship to ruin next...could be yours. Posts: 274	We must take into account that aragorn healed not only with his body, but with his mind. He gives us this impression when he talks to the people he had cured; "i called long for you." (please excuse rough quotes) " i searched for you and pulled you from the darkness". When he was 'calling' to faramir, i always imagined him saying something along the lines of; "Faramir, come back to the light. I am Elessar, your king, and i command it." (perhaps not exactly like that but it's hard to explain nes pas?) This is not a plot hole, but allows use of the readers imagination. If you look at it purely on what was said and done, there is enough to spur your imagination, yet (as someone said above, but i heartily disagree) not enough to just use the facts. Even without using my imagination i am convinced. Osse __________________ 'A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot system like democracy. At least HE could tell the people he was THEIR fault.'

08-02-2003, 01:32 AM	#15
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	Wow, Osse, I haven't thought of it that way. I am not sure if it happened that way but there is a possibility. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

08-02-2003, 06:28 PM	#16
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Boromir claimed to 'see Frodo's mind', so perhaps Faramir could see Aragorn's. On a more serious note, as was aforementioned, Ioreth's quippings were probably well known. Add that to his knowledge given by Frodo, his ability to see people's minds and intentions (handed down by his dear old pyromaniac dad), and the fact that Aragorn had somehow managed to pull him from the jaws of death, I'd say that there was a good chance that Faramir could put 27 and 34 together and come up with 61. (I refrain from 2+2 because it was slightly more complicated than that.) Or it was just the sort of thing that you 'know'. Fea __________________ peace