Who would be the rightul king in aman?

[elbenprincess]

I mean the King of the noldor, we know that at the time when the noldor left aman finarfin became the king, but did that last until the third age? We know that finwe and feanor wouldn´t return from mandos, but what about fingolfin or turgon? Would they have the right to claim the title or wouldn´t they even be released from mandos, because of the curse? We know finrod was released, why should there be a differnet case for fingolfin? I beliefe he didn´t participated in the kingslaying too and he is still the older brother of finarfin.

[Erendis]

The actual case here would be whether somebody would clame that title fron Finarfin in Aman.
If so,then Ereinion would have a claim as an ex-king too,not to mention his rightfull heirs,Elrond,grand-son of Idril and Galadriel,niece of Fingon and daughter of Finarfin too...

Seriously,after all the bloodsead of the First Age on matters of succession,I suppose they have decided to give up any titles and live peacefully ever after under Inwe.

[elbenprincess]

you mean there is no king? I think I can´t agree, would´t suit the elves not to have a king for each folk, and the problems they had never resulted from dissensions about any kingship.

And after all they are a proud folk I believe, so I guess the noldor wouldn´t just disclaim their right.

And I think that one king woulnd´t be enough to rule so many people and I like the thought of Galadriel beeing the daughter of the king :-)

But the number of elves would be the main argument, because it would be impossible to rule a million??? (are there so many?) elves with just one king.

And a well - defined leadership is important to keep peace, so clearly more kingdoms ;-) But without question, Ingwe is still their high king, just wonder why he is...

[Erendis]

Nice points!

Yes,their number might have increased in the peace of Aman and Tol Eressea during the Second and Third Age,but not to a really high pace,since they did not breed frequently and did not have many children.

As for the seperate Kings...Setting apart the subgect of Noldorin kingship,the Teleri have also a little problem .Would it be Elwe,their original leader,Olwe,their next king(persuming he did not die), Dior or Elrond -the Children of Luthien are the answer to anything-?

And if Olwe still ruled the Teleri,would he bare to see on the Noldorin throne the unwilling slayer of his people-a.k.a. the in-all-other-means-respectfull Fingolfin-?

Ah,it is difficult living in Aman!

[elbenprincess]

I think Olwe would remain the king of the teleri, cause he set sail to aman, while elwe remeined in ME, so Elwe IMHO gave all his rights to be king in aman away. Maybe Thingol would establish a separate Sindar Kingdom (were his people Sindar)?

But my main focus lies on the noldorin kingship, I´m a noldor fan

What do you mean with "Dior or Elrond -the Children of Luthien are the answer to anything"

Do you mean Dior or Elrong could claim the noldor throne? I think Elrond could, but would be strange, galadriel is is mother in law and fianrfin her father, would be awkward

I like the image of galadriel coming back and beeing the princess of the noldor, it´s nice.

I really wonder if there were changes in aman over the intervening years...or if everything is the same, as galadriel remembers.

It´s a shame tolkien never wrote something about aman and the return of the elves

[Morthoron]

Who cares? What's the use of being a king when you have to always behave properly and respectfully because you have these greater beings hovering about you, slapping dooms down on you if you get out of line? Ingwe sits at the foot of Taniquetil adoringly basking in Manwe's glow. What kind of king is that, I ask you?

At least the Noldor that left Valinor had some cahones.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

At least the Noldor that left Valinor had some cahones.

Wasn't that Fëanor's point?

Anyway, as to the original question, I think Finarfin retained the kingship of the Noldor in Valinor and would have done so even if Fingolfin had been rebodied. Why? Because I don't think Fingolfin was the type to have demanded things be otherwise. He would have readily admitted his mistake in following Fëanor, and would not have allowed himself to claim the kingship because of his past deeds, thinking himself unfit to rule over Finarfin, who was also a son of Finwë and had taken no part in the deeds of the Noldor which had led to the Curse.

[Mithalwen]

Elrond did not claim kingship of the Noldor remaining in Middle Earth - of course the numbers were so depleted to make the title almost ridiculous but by blood he was probably entitled - so it would have been odd for him to claim it in Aman. Galadriel didn't use the title of Queen even over her Silvan subjects so again unlikely. I imagine that,in Aman as in Beliriand each headed their own household and followers, but that Finarfin remained as nominal head. I agree it is fairly meaningless.

There is no real suprise in Tolkien not writing more about Aman without the rebelling Noldor. There is little drama and interest in people being endlessly good and cooperative. No, Morgoth, no Feanor + same old, same old...

[elbenprincess]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Who cares? What's the use of being a king when you have to always behave properly and respectfully because you have these greater beings hovering about you, slapping dooms down on you if you get out of line? Ingwe sits at the foot of Taniquetil adoringly basking in Manwe's glow. What kind of king is that, I ask you?

At least the Noldor that left Valinor had some cahones.

I don´t think that the valar interfere too much in their business, of course if they would start killing each other, they would do something but in a regular basis they let the elves rule their kingdoms.

I believe that galadriel dwells with celebrian and elrond with her parents in tirion.

I am a huge elvenfan, therefore I would be very interested in the life of the eldar in aman or the remaining in ME.