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08-25-2009, 03:19 PM | #1 | ||
Wight
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Galadriel's power
So I was wondering just how powerful Galadriel is against Sauron's forces and Sauron himself without his Ring. We all have some knowledge as to what she can do and of her supposed stature among the Eldar. But political power aside, how would the potency of her spirit measure up against the maiar in general? Wasn't it said that Glorfindel came close to the might of the maiar when he was reincarnated (I can't find the quote but it's there)? And yet even as he came back to ME in the 3rd age, Galadriel remained as the fairest and mightiest of the elves:
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In addition, taking her history in Valinor into account, she grew while the Two Trees lived. Their lights had a profound effect on those elves exposed to them. Then there's her supposed equal--albeit different--stature with Feanor, if you consider the unfinished tales as canon. She was also a friend and pupil of Melian, a maia of great power. But unlike Melian, she took the reigns in ruling. During the mirror scene, she reveals to Frodo that she knew Sauron's mind. I've never heard of the other bearers say so. Sauron gropes ever to see into her thoughts. And in the Unfinished Tales, it is said that when Sauron came to Eregion, he immedietly perceived that Galadriel would be his chief adversary. Galadriel tells Frodo that she and Celeborn have fought the long defeat. And in the scene where Frodo asked what she'd wish, she says: Quote:
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08-25-2009, 04:39 PM | #2 | |||
Gruesome Spectre
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Though Galadriel was probaby the most powerful of the Eldar remaining in Middle-earth in the Third Age, I can't put her on an equal footing with Sauron, even bereft of his Ring.
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She could easily have known how many times Frodo had used the Ring; he had given a full account of events at the Council of Elrond, and she had obviously been informed of what was said there. Her perception of Sauron's mind concerning the Elves, but not the reverse, I see as possibly a statement on the relationship between Good and Evil; that the Good can understand Evil more easily than Evil can understand Good. Quote:
A curious blindness that Evil has, exploitable by the Good. Her statement that she wished the Ring had not been wrought or had remained lost could simply mean that she somewhat regretted having made Lothlórien the earthly paradise that it was; for she had come to love it, and knew that Sauron being aware the Ring had been found had fully awakened him, and Lórien was near to its doom no matter the result of Frodo's errand.
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08-26-2009, 06:47 AM | #3 | ||
Guard of the Citadel
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OK...
Case 1 - Galadriel no Ring, Sauron no Ring - it's pretty obvious from Inziladun's quotes that Lórien would have been lost in this scenario since even without the Ring Sauron could simply eventually overrun Lórien with all his forces. I believe this also reflected in the words of Glorfindel: Quote:
Case 2 - Galadriel has the Ring, Sauron doesn't Now let's suppose that Galadriel kept the Ring and decided to use in battle against Sauron here's what would probably have happened: Quote:
He merely explains how Elrond or Galadriel would have operated, and that they could not have faces him self to self, but does not say directly whether they would have been successful. It does however appears that they would have failed, due to the passage where it is said that it was part of the deceit of the Ring to show such dreams of great power. Still, I think that Galadriel or Elrond may have had a chance. What also is interesting here is that although Galadriel seems to be more powerful than Elrond, he too is named as a potential adversary to Sauron, so perhaps the difference isn't that big as it may appear at first. Ok, enough for now...
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09-01-2009, 05:53 PM | #4 |
Gruesome Spectre
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The obvious difference between the two appears to be that Elrond didn't have the advantage of having lived in the Blessed Realm like Galadriel. I would think the reason Elrond still might match up was his Maia blood.
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09-01-2009, 06:33 PM | #5 | |
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09-01-2009, 06:34 PM | #6 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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09-02-2009, 03:04 AM | #7 |
shadow of a doubt
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Just a quick comment...
I don't think that the sing-off between a pre-ring Sauron and Galadriel's older (and not lesser) brother Finrod Felagund has been mentioned. With the outcome of that in mind I believe that had Sauron come to Lórien in person, Galadriel would lack the strength to withstand him, with or without his ring. Then again, at Tol-in-Gaurhoth Sauron was still not humbled by having had his physical shape destroyed and could be assumed to have been stronger than his recently re-assembled 3rd age self. Yet I would think he was a notch above Galadriel in the ME power hierarchy. Now as for Sauron and his forces , that is an entirely different question, isn't it? Which forces are we talking about now?
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09-02-2009, 08:31 AM | #8 | |||
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With Galadriel, it depends upon which one we are talking about. In UT: The History of Galadriel and Celeborn, Christopher says that his father expanded both Galadriel and Celeborn's power, and roles in his later writings. So, I would argue that the UT version of Galadriel is more powerful than LOTR-Galadriel...maybe that changes things, maybe it don't
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09-02-2009, 09:08 AM | #9 |
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I am sure it says somewhere that Galadriel had the power to hold out against anything but Sauron in person.
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09-02-2009, 10:52 PM | #10 | ||
Wight
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"Three times Lorien had been assailed from Dol Guldur, but besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself." So by the quote above, we can assume that even if Mordor's evil creatures are emptied from its lands and focused and poured over Lorien instead of Minas Tirith (avoiding Battle of Pelenor), joined by Dol Guldur's seven-fold strength (avoiding attack on Thranduil's realm), Lorien would remain victorious unless Sauron was physically there, right? Then can we assume also that Smaug would not be able to conquer Lorien, him being lesser than Sauron (And Galadriel being able to repel anyone lesser than him)? For though it is expected that the Elves diminish and dwindle, due to Mandos' curse (don't know if he lifted this after Morgoth's final overthrow), the Three rings were able to ward off that weariness, bringing only healing and rejuvenation. So methinks Galadriel (along with Elrond) and her subjects were sheilded from this curse of mandos so long as the Three lasted. So I don't think Galadriel (or her spiritual potency) became lesser than those who remained in Valinor.
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09-06-2009, 12:08 PM | #11 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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As a contrast, after his defeat by the Last Alliance and loss of the Ring, it took over a thousand years for him to begin to grow to even a minor threat to the West again, with his occupation of Dol Guldur as the Necromancer, and over 1900 years before he declared himself in Mordor. It appears from at least circumstantial evidence that the Ring may indeed have been a factor in his rebodiment.
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09-08-2009, 07:10 AM | #12 | |
Wight
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09-10-2009, 01:23 PM | #13 |
Newly Deceased
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There are cases of elves taking on Balrogs in the Silmarillion. Galadriel is certainly one of the top 3 most powerful elves in Middle Earth. I think against Sauron without his ring she could hold her own for a very long time. Perhaps Sauron with the 9 and the dwarven rings and legions upon legions could wear down Lorien, but he would lose a great part of his armies.
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