Seven fathers of the Dwarves - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aragost · 07-11-2003, 07:46 PM

Sorry if this has been done before but,
how would there be a Dwarven population at all if all of the first Dwarves were men? [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Estella Brandybuck · 07-11-2003, 08:11 PM

That's a good question, one I've been wondering about myself... Maybe Dwarf women really did grow out of stone! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Hmm... I can't find anything about it in the Silmarillion, but maybe there's something about it in the Unfinished Tales...

Noxomanus · 07-12-2003, 02:47 AM

I believe it was mentioned somewhere that all the Fathers of the Dwarves had a partner with them,except Durin....wich means we still have a similiair problem,only on a smaller scale.A plothole,I think.

Amarie of the Vanyar · 07-12-2003, 04:13 AM

Noxomanus is right [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Quote:

[Ilúvatar] commanded Aulë to lay the fathers of the Dwarves severally in deep places, each with his mate, save Durin the eldest who had none
HoME 11, The War of the Jewels

Aredhel Idril Telcontar · 07-12-2003, 05:04 AM

A big plothole there [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]. How could Durin have an heir? Did some other Dwarve's mate cheat on him?
That's the only answer I can think of... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

FingolfintheBold · 07-12-2003, 09:45 AM

one question is Dwarven marriage habits. maybe two dwarves could share one wife or something? Maybe one dwarf-father died, leaving an untaken wife?

Amarie of the Vanyar · 07-12-2003, 10:03 AM

Or maybe Durin married a daughter of another father of the Dwarves [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

alatar · 06-13-2008, 12:32 PM

I always took 'fathers of the Dwarves' to mean special heads of small groups. Kind of like when, in the United States of America, we speak of our "Founding Fathers." These men (and women) got the whole process going, but are not the biological sires of all of those that now live here. They were not alone in founding this country, but they were at the forefront - the kings, as it were.

Eönwë · 06-13-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

I always took 'fathers of the Dwarves' to mean special heads of small groups. Kind of like when, in the United States of America, we speak of our "Founding Fathers." These men (and women) got the whole process going, but are not the biological sires of all of those that now live here. They were not alone in founding this country, but they were at the forefront - the kings, as it were.

Anyway, if it was only them, they'd have probably all died by the end of the First Age of genetic diseases (Unless their genes worked differently to ours).

alatar · 06-13-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Anyway, if it was only them, they'd have probably all died by the end of the First Age of genetic diseases (Unless their genes worked differently to ours).

Some would say, like Adam and Eve, that they were more, if not entirely "pure" and so contained no defects, and so random deleterious mutations would take some time to accumulate to observable levels. Surely by this time they found other groups and intermingled.

Eönwë · 06-13-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

Some would say, like Adam and Eve, that they were more, if not entirely "pure" and so contained no defects, and so random deleterious mutations would take some time to accumulate to observable levels. Surely by this time they found other groups and intermingled.

At least, I hope.

William Cloud Hicklin · 06-14-2008, 06:16 AM

Quote:

.....our "Founding Fathers." These men (and women) got the whole process going, but are not the biological sires of all of those that now live here.

Except for Ben Franklin- the randy old goat is probably responsible for a fair chunk of the population...

07-11-2003, 07:46 PM	#1
Aragost Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Arthedain Posts: 137	Seven fathers of the Dwarves Sorry if this has been done before but, how would there be a Dwarven population at all if all of the first Dwarves were men? [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] __________________ Where there's a whip there's a will

07-11-2003, 08:11 PM	#2
Estella Brandybuck Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Satellite of Love Posts: 73	That's a good question, one I've been wondering about myself... Maybe Dwarf women really did grow out of stone! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Hmm... I can't find anything about it in the Silmarillion, but maybe there's something about it in the Unfinished Tales... __________________ "But the Rohirrim sang no more. Death they cried with one voice loud and terrible, and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards." - RotK Do you enjoy reading and writing LotR fanfiction?

07-12-2003, 02:47 AM	#3
Noxomanus Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 233	I believe it was mentioned somewhere that all the Fathers of the Dwarves had a partner with them,except Durin....wich means we still have a similiair problem,only on a smaller scale.A plothole,I think. __________________ Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't

07-12-2003, 05:04 AM	#5
Aredhel Idril Telcontar Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hanging on a sheer cliff with Maedhros Posts: 113	A big plothole there [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]. How could Durin have an heir? Did some other Dwarve's mate cheat on him? That's the only answer I can think of... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ "I am your sister and not your servant, and beyond your bounds I will go as seems good to me." Tai uzdaryk mane Tevyne savyje/kaip giesme gerkleje mirtis uzdaro/ ir kaip uzdaro vakara naktis/ o Tu man atsakai: as Tavo laisve

07-12-2003, 09:45 AM	#6
FingolfintheBold Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere between knowing my path and walking it Posts: 69	one question is Dwarven marriage habits. maybe two dwarves could share one wife or something? Maybe one dwarf-father died, leaving an untaken wife? __________________ There long the golden leaves have grown, upon the branching years, while here beyond the sundering seas, now fall the Elven-tears... but if of ships I now would sing, what ship would come to me, what ship would bear me ever back, across so wide a sea?

07-12-2003, 10:03 AM	#7
Amarie of the Vanyar Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: Valinor Posts: 215	Or maybe Durin married a daughter of another father of the Dwarves [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled Finrod; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile.

06-13-2008, 12:32 PM	#8
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	I always took 'fathers of the Dwarves' to mean special heads of small groups. Kind of like when, in the United States of America, we speak of our "Founding Fathers." These men (and women) got the whole process going, but are not the biological sires of all of those that now live here. They were not alone in founding this country, but they were at the forefront - the kings, as it were. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.