Half-elven Lifespan

[Inziladun]

The question regards Arwen. She apparently died of a 'broken heart' after Aragorn passed, after living 122 years as a mortal. Had she not given in to despair and continued to want to live after the death of her husband, how long would she have lived? Elros lived to the age of 500. Was this standard for those of the Half-elven who chose mortality? A lingering effect of their Elvish side, perhaps?

[Telchar]

Arwen chose Aragorn and accepted mortality, when he passed so did she. Rather out of wish than out of grief - or so I interpret.

In HoME X Tolkien gives a commest going along the lines of: Bilbo and Frodo was allowed to be cleansed of the hurts of Arda marred and were healed. At some point they chose to die and leave this world. Aragorn on the other hand achieved this without assistance being the first to do so since early Numenorean kings. I have no problem beliving that Arwen, although grieved as she was also achieved this when she laid herself down on Kerin Amroth.

Cheers

[Orald]

Arwen had already lived over 500 years in her prime, so I thought it about right when she keeled over after 122 years from the day she chose mortality.

[Elrian]

Actually she had lived over 2770 years before she married Aragorn. She'd already had quite a long life span.

[Inziladun]

Actually she had lived over 2770 years before she married Aragorn.

Having not made her choice as to which kindred she would belong, she was an immortal then. I wouldn't count the years between her birth and her marriage.

[Orald]

Then do you count Elros as Immortal from the time in which he was born to the time he chose.

Elrian, I was referring to Elros's length of life as possibly being the norm, being that it is the only example we have of a half-elf choosing mortality.

[Inziladun]

I would say Elros also would not count the years from his birth til his choice.
Basically what I was wondering is this: since Elros lived 500 years after choosing mortality, could Arwen have expected the same lifespan as a mortal? If so, why?

[Jellinek]

I would say that, since their bodies still do not age, the only effect the choice has is that passage into the West is forbidden. I always thought Half-elves that chose mortality could theoretically live until the end of Middle-Earth, when the only option is death.

In practice, I don't think any would continue to live after all Elves had left Middle Earth.

Jellinek

[Orald]

I don't quite follow you, Jellinek. Are you saying that even after choosing mortality, half-elves could live on until the end, or are you saying that if they hadn't made a choice they could live on never having to choose until the very end?

[Inziladun]

My apologies if something along these lines has been discussed since the last post here. It got off track a bit, and I failed to make clear what I was really after: how long did the Half-elven have to make the choice of their kindred? I still wonder about it, and I'm not aware of JRRT making any definitive statement about it. Any new thoughts?

[Alfirin]

I seem to recall something about Elros's 500 year lifespan being cosidered something exceptional and unusual. I would imagine that once choosing mortality, a Half-elf usally had a lifespan comperable to a ordianry mortal of the same approximate physical age as themselves; the 122 years Arven lived are likey on the high side of normal, but nothing out of the ordinary. Still when you consider how long that is in comparison to the mean lifespan of the real world Tolkein was basing it on (Wasn't the average lifespan in Roman society around 40 years or so?) 122 is in itslef, incredible.

[Fingolfin II]

how long did the Half-elven have to make the choice of their kindred

I don't know if you'll be able to find a definitive answer to that question. In the Silmarillion, Earendil, Elwing, Elrond and Elros are given a choice by the Valar at a certain point of time, but it is not said when the children of Elrond have to 'choose', though I think it may be safe to assume that they had to choose by the time Elrond departed over Sea (as evinced by Arwen saying that there 'is no ship' that could now take her across the Sea upon Aragorn's deathbed despite Legolas building a ship and taking Gimli with him, but anyway...). However that supposition is contradicted by the fact that Elladan and Elrohir decided to stay in Middle-Earth (at least for a while longer) and it is not made clear by Tolkien what their choice is and when they chose their paths, or if by staying in Middle-Earth they had 'chosen' a mortal life.

While that really doesn't answer the question, I suppose it is one of the ambiguities of Tolkien's writings- kind of like what does he mean when he says that Elves remaining in Middle-Earth 'faded out'; does that mean they became mortal and died, or went over Sea or what? I guess - like this topic - it's a moot point (unless someone points out evidence from one of the books I neglected).