Gollum's escape!

[mpt120]

Hey do we ever find out if Gollum is set free or just escaped from Mordor. It seems unlikley that he could escape from a fortifies place like that when the All Seeing Eye could.....see all. So he must have been set free, but why. Its not like he would have led them back there. He didnt want to go. He pleaded with Frodo not to go back so it just doesnt make sense!!

[Legolas]

They knew he would follow the Ring, and that the Ring could only be destroyed in Mt. Doom. He knew the way, and would be captured and possibly tortured like he was in Mordor, thus he would bring the Ring to Mordor possibly... No matter what happened, there were no reasons for him to stay in Mordor. Why would he stay? What danger could he cause by getting out? (Little did they know of that great danger - it seemed harmless at the time, I'm sure.)

[mpt120]

But wouldnt Sauron rather keep Frodo out of Mordor and away from Mt. Doom. It would be wasier to get one of his thousands of servants to bring the hobbits to him. And there is no point to letting gollum go. It seems if he had no use the EVIl Sauron whould have Killed him. ANyone??

[Olorin]

Hmm.... well he was definitely let free. But why?

I don't know, I've been wondering the same thing for quite a while.

[The Saucepan Man]

Sauron thought that he had got all that he could out of Gollum under torture (although he was wrong, for Gollum lied to him concerning his knowledge of the whereabouts of the Shire). So, he set Gollum free hoping that he would head for the Ring thus leading Sauron's minions to it.

It's explained in The Hunt for the Ring in the Unfinished Tales. There is also a reference to Sauron being disturbed by, and in a way even fearful of, Gollum, a wonderful foreshadowing of the instrumental part that Gollum was to play in his downfall.

Edit: Got the name of the chapter wrong. That'll teach me to post without my books to hand. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[ July 03, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[akhtene]

Gollum lied to him concerning his knowledge of the whereabouts of the Shire

How could Gollum know the whereabouts of the Shire? He was born far from the place and hardly travelled much. And if he did know it, why didn't he 'visit' Bilbo and reclaim the Ring?

Howerever, I haven't read 'Unfinished Tales'. Could someone enlighten me on the matter?

[The Saucepan Man]

How could Gollum know the whereabouts of the Shire?

Sorry, akhtene, I should have made myself clearer but I didn't have the book to hand and could not remember exactly how it was that Gollum lied to Sauron (which is why I expressed it rather vaguely).

You are right, he did not know where the Shire was. But he made out to Sauron that he did, telling him that it was near to the Gladden Fields. The relevant section from UT is as follows:

Now Sauron had never paid heed to the 'halflings', even if he had heard of them, and he did not yet know where their land lay. From Gollum, even under pain, he could not get any clear account, both because Gollum indeed had no certain knowledge himself, and because what he knew he falsified ... Then he [Gollum] became filled with a hatred of Sauron even greater than his terror, seeing in him truly his greatest enemy and rival. Thus it was that he dared to pretend that he believed that the the land of the Halflings was near to the places where he had once dwelt beside the banks of the Gladden.

In consequence, when they commence their hunt for the Ring, the Nazgul first head off up the Anduin. Thus, Gollum's deceit of Sauron actually (albeit unwittingly) saves Frodo's life and prevents the Ring from falling into Sauron's hands at the outset for, had the Nazgul arrived in the Shire much earlier, they would almost certainly have killed Frodo and seized the Ring.

[Morgoth the Great]

ok, this is what i know: In the lost tales, it sez that Sauron thought that Gollum knew where the Shire was. He said that it was near the Gladden Fields, where he had grown up. Sauron coudn't get any word from his scouts that went there, but Gollum refused to tell him otherwise.He therefore continued to send emmisaries to the Gladden Fields, and released Gollum on the hope that he would locate the ring. He later realised that the Stoor had long left the Gladden Fields, but continued to track Gollum as much as he could, therefore, we must assume that Sauron let him go, because it was his only way of learning where the Shire was. thats to te best of my knowledge anyways [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] the

[akhtene]

Thanks for the info, Saucepan Man. That was really lucky for Frodo. And for Bilbo too (who could otherwise have been eaten in his sleep [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )

And welcome to the Downs, Morgoth the Great !

[Noxomanus]

Seems like nasty hideous Sméagol did more things that turned out good then one would suspect.It also proves that Sauron didn't believe that the small could have greater influence then the wise and powerful,wich was untrue.

[Finwe]

Whenever two enemies fight among themselves like that, it almost always turns out good for the "good guys." In their little "dueling," both Sauron and Gollum didn't realize that they had bought Frodo and the Ring enough time to escape. Gollum's very reason to exist was the Ring, and he knew that Sauron wanted it. Naturally, he wouldn't let that happen. Sauron, on the other hand, probably detested the "filthy little creature," but knew that he would have to listen to him, to get the information that he wanted. Gollum also knew that, and that was why he misled Sauron.

[Rumil]

I seem to remember that Gollum only knew that the name of Bilbo's homeland was the Shire (because Bilbo, rather foolishly, told him) but was just guessing as to its location.

It was perhaps understandable for Gollum to thik that the Gladden Fields were the Shire, as that's where he had come from many hundereds of years before when it was a thriving hobbit community. In Unfinished Tales, there's one version implying that the Hobbits were massacred by the Nazgul on their search for the ring, though that was later rejected.

Certainly Saruman knew where the Shire was and eventually told the Nazgul, though he had tried to conceal his information for his own ends.

[Sharkû]

"Certainly Saruman knew where the Shire was and eventually told the Nazgul, though he had tried to conceal his information for his own ends." (-Rumil)

cf. UT 3.IV.i.
Saruman was too powerful to be interrogated by the Nazgûl, but they caught Gríma and learned the location of the Shire and Saruman's interest therein from him.

[The Saucepan Man]

Saruman was too powerful to be interrogated by the Nazgûl, but they caught Gríma and learned the location of the Shire and Saruman's interest therein from him.

Yes, that seems to be the favoured version given by Christopher Tolkien in UT, although he does give another version, which did involve Saruman telling the Witch-King where the Shire was. This version has it that, when confronted by the Nazgul at Isengard, Saruman decided to give in to Gandalf (it being the time at which Gandalf was held captive at Orthanc) and beg for his forgiveness and help. But, on reaching the top of the Tower, he found that Gandalf had just escaped. He then decided to tell the Nazgul where the Shire was in order to convince them that he remained a faithful ally of Sauron. But he still hoped to get the Ring himself, believing that the Nazgul's search would be hindered by his directing them to the Shire, as he knew that it was guarded by the Dunedain and he also apparently (and mistakenly) believed that the Ring was already on its way to Rivendell.

I must admit that I find Saruman's actions unconvincing in this version and much prefer that which has Wormtongue directing the Nazgul to the Shire.

It also proves that Sauron didn't believe that the small could have greater influence then the wise and powerful,wich was untrue.

True, although Sauron did still have this vague apprehension that Gollum spelled trouble, foreshadowing the role that Gollum was to play in his demise.

He did not trust Gollum, for he divined something indomitable in him, which could not be overcome, even by the Shadow of Fear, except by destroying him.

The impression I get is that Sauron somehow felt that he should destroy Gollum, but he did not do so since he hoped that Gollum would lead him to the Ring (as has been said earlier). Perhaps Sauron should have gone with his first instinct. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]