A fascinating insider's interview

[Lalaith]

Many years ago, I read an interview with a very old Icelandic lady who had, in her youth, (around 1930) been a mother's help in Tolkien's home. I thought I had lost it, but I have just, in a clear-out, discovered it.

The old lady was quite frank about her opinions of the family. There is nothing hugely controversial or scandalous revealed, however while she is very complimentary about Tolkien himself, she found Edith in many ways a difficult employer, and something of a tragic figure.
For example, one of the reasons she was employed was to help Tolkien practice his Icelandic, but she never did as Edith didn't like them talking in a language she didn't understand.
However, she (the nanny) did tell the children Icelandic folktales while she was bathing them, and Tolkien always used to come in and listen, as he found them fascinating.

I am happy to write up a precis of the interview (it's a double page spread).

[Lindale]

Oooh! Very interesting! Can you upload the thing instead of putting a precis? Thanks very much!

Hmmm. The point with Edith and with Luthien on the other thread.. something ferments in the back of my little brain.

[Thinlómien]

Sounds really interesting... Please share!

[Groin Redbeard]

Fascinating, I'd love to hear more, Lalaith!

[Lalaith]

No point scanning it in, I very much doubt any of you would understand the lingo...! But there are also some lovely family snaps, Tolkien playing with baby Priscilla and so on. I'll try to scan them if I can.

I'll write up the precis tonight, if I have time, or tomorrow night.

[Lalaith]

The interview appeared in 1999 and the lady in question, named Arndis but known as ‘Adda’, was a doctor’s daughter from the West Fjords, who went to work with the Tolkiens when she was twenty, in 1930. She got the job because the Tolkiens had two mothers' helps from Iceland previously, Aslaug and Runa, and Aslaug had been a classmate of Adda’s.
Tolkien collected her from Oxford station and greeted her in Icelandic.
She then talks about her working conditions – she was meant to be one of the family, but she never had a holiday. The youngest of the children (presumably Priscilla) was in her second year.
She says that the Professor was a really lovely man, very easy and comfortable to be around, he loved nature, trees and everything that grew. The house they had just bought had an asphalt tennis court and the first thing they did was rip it up and put down grass. This is an example of how JRR and Edith hated modern things – another thing they both hated was central heating and boilers.
Edith loved flowers, and not only had splendid flower beds in her new home but kept going back to the old one to get plants.
Adda puts this down to English upper class eccentricity – the Tolkiens she says, loved flowers and writing letters. She has lots of letters from them, including decorated Christmas cards from the Tolkien children.
The oldest son, Johnny, was now 14 and in the new house he had his own room. The rest (including Adda) kept themselves to the nursery. The lady of the house (Edith) had a difficult nature, she wasn’t sociable and disliked most people.
Then Adda talks about how she was meant to come there to learn English and help Tolkien practice Icelandic but Edith got jealous if they talked in a language she didn’t understand. “She was never unkind to me, but she was never a friend either. And she was very over-protective.”
Adda says Oxford was at that time completely class-ridden – professors were a class unto themselves. Edith was also a snob – when the char (cleaning lady) went awol for a fortnight, Edith was furious when Adda decided to wash the doorstep. “You’re one of us, you must never be seen doing work suitable for servants.”
The Tolkiens rarely if ever entertained, and Adda was not impressed with their hospitality...”once a couple who were old friends, just back from many years in India, called round and they hadn't seen them for years, but just gave them tea in the morning room, with only one cake!”
Adda thinks that Tolkien was much more sociable by nature than Edith. She got to know Edith’s lovely old nanny, a Miss Gro (? not sure they got this name right) who joked that Edith would always have a migraine whenever there was a university ‘do’. Miss Gro also explained why Edith was so difficult – she blamed their traumatic courtship years. They faced opposition for years and ended up having to practically elope. They had stood firm together against all the odds, even though they may not have had much in common.
Adda said Edith spent a lot of time upstairs during the day but didn’t know what she actually did. She was a very promising pianist at the time when she married, had become an organist in a church. There was a parlour in the house which no-one ever went into, there was a piano there but Edith never touched it. None of the children learnt an instrument.
Whenever Tolkien had had a drink or two he was not allowed to sleep in the bedroom, he had to go into the guest room. She couldn’t stand the smell of drink on him. Tolkien was a lovely, comfortable man, didn’t talk much. He always came home to lunch every day, and went into his study after the meal. He would have a bottle of beer and a dry biscuit.

[Lalaith]

Precis Part two

Adda was very fond of the children. She took them fishing in a nearby canal, put them in the bath every night and put them to bed, they loved to hear Icelandic folk tales about trolls and such, and often Tolkien would come and listen too. “He took lots of ideas from Icelandic folk stories...and he really believed that all of nature was alive. He lived in a kind of adventure/fantasy world.”
Adda still loves reading the Hobbit (which he started writing at the time she was working for him).
Tolkien always wore a tweed jacket and pale grey trousers, but loved to wear colourful waistcoats. And he always wore white tie (tails) at the Oxford dinners. He always wanted to go to Iceland but thought he couldn’t afford it.

Adda eventually left because of the restrictive life she was forced to lead.
She got friendly with a girl called Betty, one of Tolkien’s students, who invited her to go punting but Edith never found it convenient to let her go, even on a Sunday.
Edith once showed Adda her wardrobe upstairs, it ran along an entire wall and was completely full of clothes. But she never went anywhere at all, except perhaps to the library.
She sometimes did go with me and the older boys to a matinee (afternoon theatre performance). The Tolkiens thought the theatre an acceptable leisure activity but hated the cinema, and they really hated the Morris car factory that had been recently opened south of Oxford.
John, at 14, was most like his father. Edith stopped Adda from bathing him. (editor’s note – I should hope so too!) Michael, the next son, was such a beautiful child, that people would stop his mother in the street to admire him. His mother wanted him to be a priest. Christopher was often squabbled over by his parents. He was a rather whiny child, fussy with food. But his father adored him and realised that he needed different handling than the others. Tolkien had started writing the Hobbit while I was there but was really writing it for Christopher, reading him out chapters.

She then says that she had close contact through letters with the family until the war disrupted the correspondence.


Right, that's basically it. Hope you find it interesting...

[Lalwendë]

So the Tolkiens had an au pair!

You get the impression there was a little friction between mother and her helper, with the talking in Icelandic banned, and the lack of days out permitted. I wonder if being financially restricted caused them to be a bit frugal with the entertaining too? That part about the one cake reminded me of Bilbo's flapping at the start of The Hobbit.

[Lalaith]

I think it's all very sad though....the dresses never worn, the piano never played.

[Rumil]

My word,

what a find Lalaith! The psychologists would have a field day!

A few thoughts off the top of my head.

Social position in those days often brought insecurity with it, doubly so in a place such as Oxford I should imagine. Was Edith perhaps frightened in a way of 'letting down' her husband with his highly prestigious position as Professor? No doubt the dons were a difficult bunch to interact with socially, even for a respectable married woman. Seems very sad as Lalaith says, but 30s Britain was class-concious to an extreme, most intimidating no doubt.

Still there are worrying tones of Lobelia.

I love the Prof's colourful waistcoats! I hope he replaced the brass buttons with big gold ones like Bilbo's after the books became successful.

I wonder if Adda was stereotypically Icelandic - blonde hair, blue eyes etc, no wonder Edith kept a close eye! Was Adda proto-Eowyn perhaps??

[Lalaith]

Judging from the family snaps, Adda was quite pleasant-looking but not a stunner - short darkish bob rather than blonde tresses...

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Judging from the family snaps, Adda was quite pleasant-looking but not a stunner - short darkish bob rather than blonde tresses...

More of a Bjork type then?

I'm wondering why the piano was never touched. Because the Prof wanted quiet in order to work or because Edith herself didn't want to play it? As for the wardrobes full of frocks, I can understand that, she was probably a hoarder. Though not going to social functions suggests she had a big lack of self confidence - something you can appreciate given the high level of intelligence people might have displayed in Tolkien's social circle, it might have been very intimidating trying to make chit chat with professors and their brilliant wives!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Fascinating indeed! Thanks very much, Lalaith, for sharing this with us. I too am wondering why Edith didn't play piano at that time; perhaps she needed all her energy for a household with four children and little money. If I remember rightly from the biography, she did play again later in life.

Carpenter's biography does support the impression that Edith was uncertain in her position and suggests that she compensated by imposing strict rules within the family. She apparently never felt comfortable in academic society.

[Lalaith]

Edith was uncertain in her position and suggests that she compensated by imposing strict rules within the family

That is definitely the impression given by Adda. Poor old Professor, sleeping in the spare room after making too free with the port at college dinners....the old nanny's theory is also interesting. She (Mrs Gro the nanny) said that Tolkien's Catholic guardians did not feel Edith was good enough for him and that probably didn't help.

The piano...again, the impression given is definitely that Edith didn't *want* to play, not that she was discouraged to. I had a few theories...perhaps post-natal depression? The comment Adda makes about Edith spending a lot of time upstairs during the day, perhaps lying down, made me wonder...
Adda is of course coming to the household from the egalitarian social structure of Iceland, so the rigid class system of Oxford really baffled and surprised her. She also came from a society where people worked very hard, so she would not have been used to the idea of ladies of leisure...she (Adda) looked after the children, and the cleaning lady came every day, she says Edith did some cooking and dressed and bathed Priscilla in the mornings but that was about it.

[Mithalwen]

I suspect that Mrs Gro is Jennie Grove, Ediths cousin and sometime companion, if I remember the Bio correctly.

I really think Edith's life was very sad. It is unsuprising that she was unsure of her status. She had the misfortune to be born illegitimate into a time and class that really cared about such things. And she had a talent that marriage prevented her from fulfilling. Edith reminds me more of a great aunt who had been a brilliant violinist, married a dour farmer who went bankrupt and really had a very tough time and as far as I know completely dropped the music. It is particularly sad that Tolkien's insitence on her conversion cut her off from socially acceptable outlets for her talent. I can't help thinking that it might have made her life so much happier if she had been able to remain an Anglican and have an important role in the church community as an organist. Instead she was not allowed to do menial tasks, not allowed to do paid work, just had to keep up appearances on a tiny income.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Mithalwen, you put your finger on a crucial aspect of Edith Tolkien's life, the conversion which was necessary for the marriage yet difficult for her.

In the course of my research on music in Tolkien's works I came across some biographical comments in Scull and Hammond's JRRT Companion and Guide; apparently she did play piano during the marriage, even if not at the time mentioned by the Icelandic helper:

Edith continued to play at home until her hands became stiff with age and she gave her piano to her daughter, Priscilla.

The passage (page 616) goes on to mention the drawing Tolkien made in 1918 of Edith playing piano.

Perhaps she was able to channel some of her emotions into her music later on.

[Lindale]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I think it's all very sad though....the dresses never worn, the piano never played.

typically Victorian-English, a tropical girl thinks. a bit Jane Eyre-ish, on the reverse. keep those feelings inside until you're sure there's nobody who would see you cry or something.

But then didn't society at that time encourage ladies of class to know how to play piano and play it for guests, family affairs, or just for recreation?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Mithalwen, you put your finger on a crucial aspect of Edith Tolkien's life, the conversion which was necessary for the marriage yet difficult for her.

You put your finger, Estelyn on a very interesting aspect of the marriage. The Catholic Church has never demanded the conversion of a partner in the marriage; it has demanded the argreement that all children will be raised Catholic, but it never forced the non-C partner to convert as a requirement of the marriage.

So this demand must have come from Tolkien himself. Why did he, who was later to be so against bullying domination of others, demand it? What could have made him so insenstive to Edith's own spiritual perspective? I seem to recall Carpenter saying something that Tolkien was also quite indifferent to Edith's own qualms and discomforts with the demands of confession. What caused this?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

So this demand must have come from Tolkien himself. Why did he, who was later to be so against bullying domination of others, demand it? What could have made him so insenstive to Edith's own spiritual perspective? I seem to recall Carpenter saying something that Tolkien was also quite indifferent to Edith's own qualms and discomforts with the demands of confession. What caused this?

Far be it from me to get all Freudian, but I suspect his feelings for his mother may have played some part - he did state:

"My own dear mother was a martyr indeed, and it is not to everybody that God grants so easy a way to his great gifts as he did to Hilary and myself, giving us a mother who killed herself with labour and trouble to ensure us keeping the faith" http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/wood-biography.html

from the same piece:

Edith Bratt Tolkien sacrificed a great deal, in fact, to be Tolkien's wife. He called her "little one," and he sometimes treated her as a child. For example, he simply insisted that she become a Catholic before their marriage, never explaining how she might come to share his deep intellectual reverence for the Church of Rome. She grew to resent having to make confession before attending mass, regarding these as outward duties more than inward necessities. Later when Tolkien became an Oxford professor, she felt terribly inadequate, often even speechless, among other professorial wives with considerably greater education and cultural achievement than hers. She became known as the "wife who did not call" and who was thus excluded from the "at homes" which other Oxford wives hosted. Worse still was Edith's resentment of Tolkien's need for male intellectual companions, especially C. S. Lewis and the other Inklings. She saw that he came truly alive only among such friends. Though Edith bore him three sons and a daughter, and though they raised them amidst happy familial life, she and Tolkien came to dwell in virtually separate spheres--occupying different bedrooms and keeping their own hours. Tolkien had a Johnsonian dread of sleep, and he would often labor very late, partly because he could not work at his desk without interruption until Edith had gone to bed. Yet Tolkien felt such a huge debt for the sacrifices Edith had made in his behalf that, when he retired from Oxford, he insisted that they live in a rather nondescript seaside resort near Bournemouth. He knew she would be happy there, even though it meant nearly total isolation from his scholarly friends. She remained for him the orphan girl who had rescued the orphan boy from an immense loneliness and sadness. Hence Tolkien's poignant remembrance of her: "For ever (especially when alone) we still met in woodland glade and went hand in hand many times to escape the shadow of imminent death before our last parting"

[Lalwendë]

I always get the impression that Edith must have loved Tolkien deeply - to convert from your own faith to another when there was no need to is good enough evidence. But then we also have the strong evidence that she broke off another engagement to be with him again once he was old enough (maybe she became engaged to someone else in despair. not believing he would stay faithful?). And she must have been a bit of a 'catch' too.

Her behaviour in Oxford to me sounds like she simply did not feel as if she fitted in to the society available to her, so she withdrew instead. It was a shame she did have to convert because she would have found more outlets as Mithalwen says. But it's also a shame that due to the middle class social constraints of the day she probably didn't spend as much time with her own children as she could have done.

The more I read about the Tolkiens, the more clear it becomes that they were both unsure of their place in society and within the class structure.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by davem

I suspect his feelings for his mother may have played some part

Yes! I think that is the heart of the matter.

One more aspect - at that time, a woman was expected to support her husband, not the other way around. Tolkien's indifference to his wife's inner needs was probably typical for most marriages then. And women weren't encouraged to express their needs and wishes; seems to me that not only children were to be "seen and not heard"!

[Andtaurwen]

Pearce in his biography makes some interesting points;
Tolkien's insistence and Edith's hesitence on her conversion to the catholic faith caused their first major disagreement. He says that Edith was an active member of the Church of England, had many friends through the Church and enjoyed a certain status in the Paish. She was afraid of being ostracised whith Tolkien had no sympathy with. This led to Edith entering the Catholic church with mixed feelings which resulted in some resentment.
Pearce also says that Edith resented the time her husband spent with his academic friends, particularly C S Lewis. She never felt comfortable in academic circles and began to feel lonely and isolated.
He mentions that Tolkien was always concerned about Ediths health also that in later life that she was riddled with arthritis. This can show signs early in adult life so perhaps this is why she gave up the piano as she was suffering pain in her fingers?

[Lalaith]

On a less gossipy and more literary level I'm also quite interested in the Icelandic folk influence on the Hobbit.
Tom, Bert and Bill: Tomas, Vilhjalmur and Berti, I think....

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Lindale

typically Victorian-English, a tropical girl thinks. a bit Jane Eyre-ish, on the reverse. keep those feelings inside until you're sure there's nobody who would see you cry or something.

But then didn't society at that time encourage ladies of class to know how to play piano and play it for guests, family affairs, or just for recreation?

Unfortunately Edith was brought up in a world where showing your emotion wasn't really done... and while ladies were expected to be accomplished and learn an instrument to provide entertainment in the days when if you wanted music you ahd to play it. However it seems that Edith had a talent beyond the competence needed for a sing a long or whatever. There is a world of difference between someone who can amuse their family and themselves (such as my mother playing nursery rhymes and old songs for me as a child) and a concert standard executant such as my great aunt and potentially Edith who would be no more fulfil their talent by playing for their family than a great chef would be by boiling an egg. Sadly the musical talent skipped me - I have done some choral singing but I don't have a "voice" alas, but have friends who are professional and it is a different league.

The practice is not a always pleasure for a casual listener oir even an interested one. It can be hours of repetition of a single phrase in the room with the best acoustics - not really practical with an academic husband and four small children. And why bother if you aren't going to perform.

[Lush]

Thanks for this, Lalaith. It's so intimate. It scares me how much I can identify with the Edith portrayed here.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Unfortunately Edith was brought up in a world where showing your emotion wasn't really done... and while ladies were expected to be accomplished and learn an instrument to provide entertainment in the days when if you wanted music you ahd to play it. However it seems that Edith had a talent beyond the competence needed for a sing a long or whatever. There is a world of difference between someone who can amuse their family and themselves (such as my mother playing nursery rhymes and old songs for me as a child) and a concert standard executant such as my great aunt and potentially Edith who would be no more fulfil their talent by playing for their family than a great chef would be by boiling an egg. Sadly the musical talent skipped me - I have done some choral singing but I don't have a "voice" alas, but have friends who are professional and it is a different league.

The practice is not a always pleasure for a casual listener oir even an interested one. It can be hours of repetition of a single phrase in the room with the best acoustics - not really practical with an academic husband and four small children. And why bother if you aren't going to perform.

The thought did cross my mind that the reason she didn't bother with the piano much might have been that they had bought a Wireless

[Lalaith]

My own dear mother was a martyr indeed

This quote sent a chill into my heart on poor Edith's behalf. A dead saintly mother who died while the son had not yet reached the rational seperation stage...what wife could compete?

[Maerbenn]

Lalaith: Where and when was the article published?

[Lalaith]

Morgunblaðið (Icelandic national newspaper) 28 February 1999.
I´ve been told it´s available on their website archive if you want to see the photos.

[Gwathagor]

Thanks, Lalaith, that was very interesting.

[Lush]

This quote sent a chill into my heart on poor Edith's behalf. A dead saintly mother who died while the son had not yet reached the rational seperation stage...what wife could compete?

Yes, THAT. I know we were discussing this on another thread, but it once again makes me wonder about putting "Luthien" on Edith's tombstone. It's certainly easy to sanctify someone when they're dead. On the other hand, death can put things in perspective.