Its Official - its Del Toro

[Sauron the White]

from Daily Variety on Thursday April 24

Guillermo del Toro to direct 'Hobbit'
Filmmaker signs on helm feature and sequel
By DAVE MCNARY

In a major step forward on "The Hobbit," Guillermo del Toro has signed on to direct the New Line-MGM tentpole and its sequel.
The widely expected announcement came Thursday afternoon jointly from exec producers Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh, New Line president Toby Emmerich and Mary Parent, the newly named chief of MGM's Worldwide Motion Picture Group.

Del Toro's moving to New Zealand for the next four years to work with Jackson and his Wingnut and WETA production teams. He'll direct the two films back to back, with the sequel which will deal with the 60-year period between "The Hobbit" and "The Fellowship of the Ring," the first of the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy.

New Line is overseeing development and will manage production. Both pics are being co-produced and co-financed by New Line Cinema and MGM, with Warner Bros. distributing domestically and MGM handling international.

Del Toro most recently helmed "Pan's Labyrinth," released through New Line's Picturehouse. The fantasy set a record as the highest grossing Spanish language film in U.S. box office history.

[Morthoron]

Ah, I can see the movie trailers now:

El Hobbit, un gran clásico moderno y el preludio a las vastas y poderosas mitologías de El señor de los anillos.

I get shivers just thinking about señor Bilbo y Gandalfo el mago de los arcanos!

I'm just kidding. Sheesh.

[Bêthberry]

This could well make our posts here more conflicted.

No, I don't mean that some will try to post in Spanish--will our Moddess need a sombrero-toting skwerl?--but with Del Toro coming in with, I would think, at least some measure of hopeful expectation amongst many Downers, there will still be trepidation at this idea that the "bridge" can be well written by this crew.

Much will depend on how much control/say Del Toro has and how well he brings to bear his knowledge of fantasy on Tolkien's world. We've seen spaghetti westerns. Will we see sangria fantasy?

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

From the interview on TORN, it looks like he's trying to do the whole thing properly. He sounds enthusiastic and passionate about TH, like he's really putting his heart into the project. He seems to have the right attitude about what he says shouldn't be called just "the bridge film".

He also seems to be striking a good balance between keeping continuity with the other films and bringing his own vision to it. Sounds like he won't be too restricted in what he can and can't do with his movie.

Things are looking pretty good from here.

Edit: I tried to post the link, but for some reason, it didn't work for me. TORN might be having some problems, as I imagine this is pretty big news right now. It's the first story on the main page of the site.

[Gothbogg the Ripper]

Superb news! He is a great director and I will be very interested to see how he handles Beorn especially.

[Mithalwen]

I really would be suprised if they include Beorn now it is effectively going to be "The Quest of Erebor" - eg a grown up version more like Gandalf's version in UT, and having to have the same "landscape" as LOTR. I can't see performing animals fitting in ... . The trolls may be also a problem given the precedent set by the cave troll in Moria.

While part of me wishes Tolkien had written a full version of the Quest of Erebor and I seldom now pick up theHobbit other than to check a reference (in my chaotic home it is the only Tolkien book I wouldn't be able to locate instantly - the rest of them are like a galactic hitchhiker's towel - I always know where they are!). The fact is that The Hobbit really comes alive when it is read as it was written as a bed time story for children and I think it is sad that it won't now really be a children's film.

[Kitanna]

Well then, given the look and feel of Pan's Labyrinth, I'm wondering how Del Toro is going to handle The Hobbit. His films seem a bit too dark for TH, but I feel he can do justice to the world of Middle-Earth.

[Eönwë]

Well, at least Mirkwood will be good.

[Nazgûl-king]

This should be interesting; I can’t wait to see what he does with it.

[Lalaith]

Del Toro is great but he scares the bejaysus out of me. Mr Lalaith and I were both whimpering behind the sofa during Pan's Labyrinth. The Devils Backbone was brilliant, too.
I'd rather have seen him direct Children of Hurin, actually.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I just don't see what's scary about Pan's Labyrinth. I mean, actually scary. It's a creepy fantasy, like many of the best fairy tales. But more than that? I think you're havering, Lalaith.

Mirkwood, giant spiders, dragon: these should all be good. But I hope he makes it a whole lot more positive than PL. Bilbo's cheeriness should not be kept in the background.

[Lush]

Andrew O'Hehir is being grim. I am optimistic.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Del Toro never liked Tolkien's books? I haven't read much discussion on the Hobbit films but this could be problematic. Hmm?

[Lush]

I think it definitely could be problematic, but if he approaches it as a professional, I think a certain detachment might actually help.

Plus, you never know, he might have changed his mind somewhat in the interim. For example, if you asked me three years ago if I liked Ian McEwan, I would have just laughed. Nowadays, I count myself a fan.

[Mithalwen]

Well Jackson claimed to love LOTR ..... I can believe that the WETA people loved it but.... well maybe Wilde was right....

But the whole situation has the making of a complete pigs ear....

[Bêthberry]

It's astute to point out how Jackson seems to be emulating not only Lucas' Star Wars ethos but Lucas' climb up the professional ladder. (Or is that down the many levels? ) It's a great pity that being a superb director no longer seems to be an acceptable or culminating accomplishment any more. One must become an entertainment corporate entity. People will always take themselves wherever their ambition will lead them, but movies could well still benefit from the likes of directors such as Bergman, Lean, Kurosawa, or, not to sound so elvish, Sonderbergh, Mayao Miyasaki, Michael Moore, even Deepa Mehta--all directors who have established their style and tone as directors. (Not that I'm saying any of these should do TH). But there are those who don't use director as a stepping stone to directors of companies.

That bit of prosyletizing aside, I do think that DT could well work on his Tolkien credentials. Sure enough that those comments about heroic fantasy and swords and little people could be his attempt to ensure that his movie was not incorrectly catalogued as that sort of fantasy--Merlin adventures and all that. Yet at the same time he does need to demonstrate some appreciation for Tolkien's ethos if he hopes to avoid the kind of criticisms which Jackson has received. The Pan's Labyrinth website contains lots of media spin on DT's idea of fantasy and proclaims his credentials about the formal academic study of fairytale (which are even then selective). There's nary a mention of Tolkien's OFS. As I think I posted elsewhere on this forum, it would make a facinating interview (or media spin) for him to comment on Tolkien's idea of fairie.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

That bit of prosyletizing aside, I do think that DT could well work on his Tolkien credentials. Sure enough that those comments about heroic fantasy and swords and little people could be his attempt to ensure that his movie was not incorrectly catalogued as that sort of fantasy--Merlin adventures and all that. Yet at the same time he does need to demonstrate some appreciation for Tolkien's ethos if he hopes to avoid the kind of criticisms which Jackson has received. The Pan's Labyrinth website contains lots of media spin on DT's idea of fantasy and proclaims his credentials about the formal academic study of fairytale (which are even then selective). There's nary a mention of Tolkien's OFS. As I think I posted elsewhere on this forum, it would make a facinating interview (or media spin) for him to comment on Tolkien's idea of fairie.

Does anyone find it disturbing that Jackson -- with all his pompous rewrites and the egocentric need to steer Tolkien's plot as his own private vehicle, not to mention his original time investment -- should surrender such power to another director? What, he's too busy for such an important project? He was a relative second tier director prior to LotR (not wishing to disturb Jackson apologists, but he was never spoken of in the same breath as his contemporaries Scorsese, Ridley Scott, Coppola et al), and his production since LotR remains spotty (King Kong was dreadful -- the original black and white version remains the standard).

And so, succumbing to the power of the Ring (in this case representing corruptive power), Jackson has become 'thin — sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread'. LotR was indeed Jackson's 'bread and butter', and I am still rather surprised he would relinquish the golden calf to a bull in the china shop (del Toro -- Ole!).

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

That bit of prosyletizing aside, I do think that DT could well work on his Tolkien credentials. .

I think he is: http://www.superherohype.com/news/topnews.php?id=7098

GDT: There's the scope, and the learning curve, because the amount of things I've gotta learn. I fell in love with "The Hobbit" but I'm marrying an entire mythology. It's like meeting the family of a girl you're going to marry… you get them all, and I fell in love with "The Hobbit" and now I'm familiarizing myself with not only the trilogy--the trilogy I only finally read--but every single thing I can read that Tolkien generated about Middle Earth or about him I'm reading, and in terms of the visuals. In order for the two movies to seamlessly involve into the trilogy, I have to literally put myself through the biggest "making of" ever assembled. I'm going to watch all the dailies of "Fellowship" and I'm going to watch most of the dailies of "The Return of the King." I'll watch as much material as I possibly can take, the camera reports... everything. By the end of the second ("Hobbit") movie, you have to be able to have evolved towards "The Lord of the Rings" and feel that it's a complete continuation.

[Lalaith]

I think you're havering, Lalaith.

Nae, laddie, no havering here, I really do find his films frightening.
He has this thing of juxtapositioning macabre fantasy with real-life physical violence and murderous threat, particularly to young children.

[Mister Underhill]

Graduating from director to mogul isn't always merely a matter of thirst for power and unbridled ambition -- "I wish to become the all-powerful Oz of my own entertainment empire!" There are a number of reasons I can think of off the top of my head why a director would take the step.

Life is short, and movie ideas are many. Even the simplest movie usually takes at least a year out of a director's life, especially a writer-director. There's writing the script, pre-production, production, post, and finally release. Many movies take much more time. I reckon Jackson must have spent a good six or seven years solid on three LotR movies, and another one or two in various stages of development. Even the industry's most successful contemporary director, Spielberg, who succeeded very young and has enjoyed carte blanche for most of his career, has only directed about twenty-six features in nearly forty years in the business. He has produced three times that or more. Taking on the Executive Producer mantle allows a director to help bring projects to the screen that he doesn't have the time to direct personally.

As an EP, you get to collaborate with talented people -- and help raise up new talents that you admire.

Also, there's something to be said for building a "brand" for yourself and increasing your worth to the studios. With very, very few exceptions, directors never have enough power. Most spend their careers trying to get their next project going, then fending off studio/financier meddlers when they do get the chance to work.

I can't see a real reason to fault Jackson. To the extent that he has become a mini-mogul, it seems to me that it's out of a desire to help bring movies that he wants to see into existence and to gain greater creative independence for himself rather than just some blind appetite for power.

Regarding his willingness to turn over the reins of TH to another director -- I'm really not that surprised. If he really wanted to direct TH, he would have found a way to settle the New Line lawsuit years ago, or in any case he would have cleared his schedule as soon as the suit was settled. Maybe spending six or seven years around the clock in Middle-earth was enough for one lifetime. I know! Heresy!

Regarding Del Toro -- I have to say that I'm intrigued. Although he does seem to have more of a taste for the grotesque, as that article mentioned, I have no doubt that -- whatever comments have been attributed to him -- he has a genuine affection for The Hobbit at least. He's not gonna move to New Zealand and spend four years of his life making these movies just to collect a paycheck. When you're someone like Del Toro, who is certainly A-list right now, you don't make that kind of commitment unless you're seriously jazzed about the project. You don't have to.

I'm also surprised that this whole "bridge movie" thing is turning out to be a reality. I thought for sure that that would turn out to be some MGM suit spreading ill-informed rumors (IIRC, it was an MGM exec that broke that news). I made the wrong call on that one.

I'm skeptical about what they'll come up with, but the more I think about it, the more interested I am. This will be, essentially, the first professionally-mounted Tolkien fanfic. Such a film will have a lot less baggage hanging around its neck.

[Sauron the White]

Very well said Mister Underhill.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

This will be, essentially, the first professionally-mounted Tolkien fanfic. Such a film will have a lot less baggage hanging around its neck.

hmmmm. Tolkien fanfic movies. Would any enterprising Downers be the least little bit intrigued enough to consider not a book but a screen play for REB? Would Will Farrell be ripe for Etceteron? Nicole Kidman for Merisu? Danny Devito for that dwarf with the pet dragon? And of course the pre-eminent question, who would direct it? Why wait for Monty Python to make a LotR parody when we have our very material?

Mr. Underhill, you make a very good case for a director wanting to move into the Executive Producer chair in order to gain more financial control over his artistic ideas and to have more time to exploring other avenues of artistic development. Yet at the same time it is entirely possibly that Jackson, like Lucas before him, really is not true directorial material. I've always harboured the notion that RotK won its Oscar for best pic not because it was the best movie but because of the entire three part production process.

Which leaves us with the question of what will happen to Tolkien's work in the hands of a director who just might have a better track record as a director than PJ.

Lalaith or Eomer, might you explainwhat meaning of havering you are employing, for the deglutition of us non-nativeland speakers?

[Lalaith]

Well Eomer's the expert here, not me....but I am acquainted with the term through the Proclaimers song....if I haver yeah I know I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the man who's havering to you ....I believe it means to talk nonsense.

[Sauron the White]

from Bethberry

Which leaves us with the question of what will happen to Tolkien's work in the hands of a director who just might have a better track record as a director than PJ.

The three areas of criteria that the film industry uses to establish track record are
1- box office revenues
2- critical acclaim
3- industry awards

based on their criteria, what list of possible directors do you have that show a better record than Jackson on his last four films?

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by Bb

Would any enterprising Downers be the least little bit intrigued enough to consider not a book but a screen play for REB? Would Will Farrell be ripe for Etceteron? Nicole Kidman for Merisu? Danny Devito for that dwarf with the pet dragon? And of course the pre-eminent question, who would direct it? Why wait for Monty Python to make a LotR parody when we have our very material?

Well then we're back to an adaptation, aren't we -- with hardcore REBophiles rightfully decrying every changed or compressed scene, every altered or cut line of dialogue, every instance where the filmmakers just didn't get the REB tone or sense of humor. I'm sure I'd stand with the REB Purists in that fight.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

[Mister Underhill]

M'lady! *bows*

[Bêthberry]

Hmm, thanks Lalaith, that's what I thought havering meant, but somehow I was expecting Eomer to be accusing you of something more, well, imaginative.

As for Mr. Underhill's sterling attempt to defend the REB Purists, and M'lady's eloquent reply, I find myself called upon to note that M'lady has already begun some sort of negotiation to move REB beyond the rpg stages: she has engaged an editor who has already completed the work of producing a seemless text. And I would hate to hear any kind of defamation of effort extended toward her editor, who is none other than the esteemed Thenamir himself.

My interest is piqued by bringing Del Toro on board. Does anyone think he will have an easier time of it since, as Mr. U astutely points out, this will be a fanfic?

Originally Posted by davem quoting DT

GDT: There's the scope, and the learning curve, because the amount of things I've gotta learn. I fell in love with "The Hobbit" but I'm marrying an entire mythology. It's like meeting the family of a girl you're going to marry… you get them all, and I fell in love with "The Hobbit" and now I'm familiarizing myself with not only the trilogy--the trilogy I only finally read--but every single thing I can read that Tolkien generated about Middle Earth or about him I'm reading, and in terms of the visuals. In order for the two movies to seamlessly involve into the trilogy, I have to literally put myself through the biggest "making of" ever assembled. I'm going to watch all the dailies of "Fellowship" and I'm going to watch most of the dailies of "The Return of the King." I'll watch as much material as I possibly can take, the camera reports... everything. By the end of the second ("Hobbit") movie, you have to be able to have evolved towards "The Lord of the Rings" and feel that it's a complete continuation.

DT is clearly letting the Jackson fans know he is eager to build a seemless bridge to LotR. He's probably eager to avoid any King Kong size disappointments.

[Rimbaud]

Basing this purely, for good reason*, on Pan's Labyrinth, DT would appear to have astonishing skill at a) bridging light and dark, both thematically and visually and b) blurring the lines between fantasy, reality and allegory. Sounds nigh on perfect for this project.

I would say that PJ's involvement would ensure continuity... if that were one of his strengths. Consistency may be a better term; that said, if I were DT, I would be nervous about helming a project with an admiral looking over my shoulder with such a vested personal interest in the film.

* Number of DT films watched: 1

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Using a word employed but once before on the Barrow-Downs (by me, back in the day) isn't imaginative enough for you, Beth? You are demanding. Deglutition of these standards shall surely take a while.

The audience will be expecting more of the same, 'Lord of the Rings 4' if you will. Won't Del Toro either feel under pressure to conform to Jackson's recent films, and relent on giving us his version, or deliver something that contrasts a bit painfully with the Middle-earth that is currently in the public imagination?

[Gothbogg the Ripper]

I hope that he doesn't go for what Jackson created. Rather I hope we see things in a slightly more fantastical way (Apart from costumes of course, the good work must not be undone) because I want this to tie in with the Fellowship of the Ring. Mainly, this film should be told by Bilbo during his eleventy-first birthday. (From the bit where he's talking to the young hobbits).
That way things can be a lot more expressive as we are seeing things firmly through his eyes.
Oh, and I suggest they get Timothy Dalton to voice Smaug. He was a funny, sarcastic, strangely endearing character. And his wit is an important part of this. I hope it isn't thrown away.

[Morthoron]

Fortunately, The Hobbit has a very linear plot which should save it from many of the pitfalls of the three LotR movies. To me, FotR was the best of the three, simply because it too was a linear tale, and did not have as many of Jackson's flights of fancy festooned about TTT and RotK (and particularly in TTT, which was a veritable mushroom patch of flagrant plot-foolery).

The Hobbit plot traces a journey from inception (and normalcy) to high adventure and danger and then returns (I guess you should call it 'There and Back Again', indeed), and since the story does not rebound from one set of characters to another, then perhaps del Toro can concentrate on the essence of Tolkien's tale, rather than hatching half-baked digressions and jarring plot devices which were wholly unnecessary in LotR. I am thankful for little things, however. Like someone having the presence of mind to talk Jackson out of having Arwen playing Xena the Warrior-Elfette in Rohan, or Aragorn battling Sauron single-handed at the Black Gates. That these deviations were discussed at all chills my respect for Jackson and his effort.

Perhaps it is better that he meddles less in the movie while playing his role as Louis B. Lucas: Movie Mogul.

[The Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Fortunately, The Hobbit has a very linear plot which should save it from many of the pitfalls of the three LotR movies. To me, FotR was the best of the three, simply because it too was a linear tale, and did not have as many of Jackson's flights of fancy festooned about TTT and RotK (and particularly in TTT, which was a veritable mushroom patch of flagrant plot-foolery).

Couldn't agree more. FOTR was fantanstic because it camptured the personalities and the quirks of the respective races/characters well. Hopefully the Hobbit follows this example and is a fine addition.

If the Battle of 5 Armies has dwarves counting their kills I might cry. :P

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Deglutition of these standards shall surely take a while.

Just wanted to know how much you would swallow. Be sure to remember the ancient grandmotherly: chew 30 times. Or is that masticate?

Is it definite that the two films will be spliced such that the first will be TH proper and the second this 'professional fanfiction'? No see-sawing of plot lines?

[Sauron the White]

In a recent interview Del Toro indicated that the first movie will be THE HOBBIT. He also indicated that in the second movie, we may see some things that took place during THE HOBBIT from a different perspective. Which I would take to mean the White Councils business with Sauron in Mirkwood.