The One Ring and invisibility

[Galendor]

Hi all, I have a question that has bothered me for years: is invisibility a built-in attribute of the Ring's power, or more a random manifestation of its power that only occurs for certain wearers? If so, why invisibility?

I have only read The Hobbit and LOTR, in that order. Perhaps this question has been answered in other works of Tolkien. If so, please enlighten me. In The Hobbit, the Ring is presented more as a simple magic invisibility ring that Bilbo was lucky enough to find. Obviously that notion gets blasted into oblivion in LOTR.

As I understand it, the Ring's power depends upon who wears it - this is evidenced in statements made by Gandalf and Galadriel, wherein they refused the Ring because of the horrible power (and ultimate corruption) it would bring to them. I understand that the Ring's power is relative to whomever wears it, and that is why the Hobbits were able to bear it for relatively long periods. They inherently had very little "will to power" for the Ring to corrupt, so it had less immediate effect on them (correct)?

If I understand LOTR properly, it seems like the true power of the Ring is the ability to bend peoples minds to the will of the wearer, to subjugate them, and ultimately send the wearer back to Sauron.

So why does it turn Hobbits like Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo, and Samwise invisible? And their clothes, (but not their unsheathed swords, but that is perhaps for another post). It did not turn Tom Bombadil invisible, and these are the only people besides Sauron and Isildur who wore the Ring in LOTR.

If Aragorn had put on the Ring, would he have become invisible? What about Elrond, or Gandalf the Grey? Sorry I know there is more than one question here, but hopefully one or more of you Tolkien scholars can get me thinking correctly about the Ring and invisibility. Thanks!

[Findegil]

Well, I don't think that question is ultimatly answered by Tolkien in any of his writings. But he gave some hints. At least part of your question can be answered:

If Aragorn had put on the Ring, would he have become invisible?

Devinitley yes. We have the example of Isildur. In Unfinished Tales it is in detail told how he used the invisibility that the Ring granted to escape the Deaster of the Gladden Fields until he lost the ring in the river Anduin.
And from what we hear in the Silmarillion chapter Of the Rings of Power and the Thrid Age about the men that took the Nine it was not only the One Ring that made its manish wearer invisible.

What about Elrond, or Gandalf the Grey?

This is quiet another matter. We see Galadriel wearing her Ring and beeing visibile nonetheless and the same seems to be true for Elrond and Gandalf. Since we see the least mighty of the rings (the Nine) and the most mighty (the One) grant their manish wearer invisibility, it seems most probable to me that all the Rings of Power would have such an effect on man. But as we have seen not on Elves or Istari nor on Bombadil for that matter.

Why this is so is a question of pure speculation for which I will not go on. But I would like to remark, that even the Elves and Gandalf wearing their Rings did some tricy invisibility stuff with it, since no one could see the Rings on their fingers.

Respectfully
Findegil

[The Might]

The Ring's power was definitely not to turn a person invisible, as it would have made little sense to do this. Why would Sauron had given it this power, if he himself was visible while wearing it?
My suspicion is that its power was to transport a person from the Seen into the Unseen World, also called Wraith World, but the reason for this I could only speculate, perhaps that Sauron could thus better control or communicate with the Ring-wraiths.

About other wearers...most would be turned invisible.
But certain beings existed in both worlds. Ringwraiths had a more material look in the world and High Elves (those that had journeyed to Valinor and seen the light of the trees + Elu Thingol) appeared as a shining figure.
It could be that they would not disappear, as they already existed in the Wraith-world.

As for Bombadil, as he is not of Middle-earth he is not really bound to the laws that exist in the world but only to his own laws. As such the Ring had no power over him and also he could see Frodo while he was wearing it.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

We can't base anything on the Keepers of the Three, because the Three were different. "They did not confer invisibility." Thus spake Tolkien.

The OP brought up 'unsheathed swords.' This apparently is a reference to The Hobbit, where Sting's 'light' is visible as the Ring-wearing Bilbo attacks the Spiders. One could of course just dismiss this as being The Hobbit, when Bilbo's ring wasn't yet The Ring. But we might combine it with another quasi-canonical text, The Disaster of the Gladden Fields, and conclude that if a person bearing a (magical?) light-source puts on the Ring, he and everything he wears or carries becomes invisible- but the light escaping from the source becomes visible as soon as it leaves. This would explain why the Elendilmir continued to shine until Isildur covered it with his hood, and why Sting shone when drawn but not when sheathed in the presence of enemies.

It does seem that a Ring affects that which its wearer is wearing or holding at the moment he puts it on, but not items picked up subsequently. The Nine's original mail and helms etc became invisible as a product of their ring-induced fading; but the cloaks they put on subsequently, and the physical weapons of the Witch-king, remained visible. Of course this could just as well be explained by the fact that by the end of the Third Age they had long ago handed over their Rings to Sauron.

[Galendor]

...but the light escaping from the source becomes visible as soon as it leaves. This would explain why the Elendilmir continued to shine until Isildur covered it with his hood, and why Sting shone when drawn but not when sheathed in the presence of enemies.

That makes sense - as soon as the light (photons) leave the source, they become visible. Just like if the wearer of the Ring throws an object, it becomes visible the moment it is no longer touched.

But the notion that objects one is holding or wearing at the moment one puts on the Ring also become invisible raises silly questions. For example, if Frodo were holding a pint of ale and slipped on the Ring, the pint of ale should also become invisible. And if a pint of ale, then also what if he was holding, say, a chair? Does it have to be suspended in the air to become invisible? Does the pint? What if the pint is on the table, but Frodo is firmly grasping it?

I also like the explanation from The Might that the invisibility of the wearer is caused by transportation to an alternate "wraith" dimension, that is "alongside" the one other normal people inhabit. Perhaps entering this wraith dimension allows a knowledgable wearer (like Sauron) better access or immunity to magics, and this was the true intended power of the Ring.

In The Hobbit, Bilbo wears the Ring constantly for a period of days or weeks (longer?) while figuring out a way to free the dwarfs from the Mirkwood elves' dungeon. I know The Hobbit is pre-LOTR and not necessarily consistent with it, but if it were consistent then Bilbo would have existed in the wraith dimension for a relatively long period of time. Fortunately the Necromancer did not sense him there!

[Melilot Brandybuck]

I've wondered this before also. When Bilbo wore the Ring in Mirkwood, he did not appear to suffer from any effects of the Ring, other than invisibility. No distorted visions or hallucinations, no watching eyes or other unbidden images of past/future like what happened to Frodo. Was this because Sauron's powers were diminished at that time? Could Sauron have sensed that someone was wearing his Ring?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Melilot Brandybuck

I've wondered this before also. When Bilbo wore the Ring in Mirkwood, he did not appear to suffer from any effects of the Ring, other than invisibility. No distorted visions or hallucinations, no watching eyes or other unbidden images of past/future like what happened to Frodo. Was this because Sauron's powers were diminished at that time? Could Sauron have sensed that someone was wearing his Ring?

That was because Bilbo had the Ring just for a few weeks at that time. Concerning Sauron sensing the Ring, Bilbo was faar away from him! Sauron did not sense the Ring entering Mordor, now why would he sense it in Mirkwood, which was not even fully under his domination. The only moment Sauron sensed the Ring was when Frodo claimed it as his own (in Mordor, what more, even in the place where it was forged).

Concerning the invisibility, let me add a few more points. I believe TM's explanation to be quite correct. The Elven lords inhabited both the worlds, as well as the Maiar (and Bombadil), so they won't get invisible. Isildur did, the Hobbits did. Aragorn, Denethor, Boromir, everyone probably would, though it may seem strange - and if they really wanted to master the Ring and claimed it as their own, the power would have been sensed stemming from them (something like from Sam when Snaga saw him). And they would have seen to that they find themselves an outfit and they would probably look like a Ringwraith then (i.e. let's say in Denethor's case the Steward's throne - and maybe even the King's, later - usurped by an invisible hooded figure in beautiful Gondorian-coloured black and white cloak and with a silver or golden mask instead of a face).

Concerning the Sting, Elessar and all things that are visible, resp. their light, I believe this is indeed given simply by the fact that the object glows. Similarly, for example the Silmarilli would have been shining in such a case, or the Star-Glass; or a simple lantern would do the same as well. If you entered a room where there is Frodo with the Ring and a lantern, you will see the room is lit, but you won't see the source. At the moment Frodo dropped the lantern, it would be seen. Of course other things, like that with the mug in the example used above, would have needed a further clarification. But I would say that here it may not be only physical thing, but also based on the intention of the bearer - my personal belief is that at the moment Frodo would have claimed the mug intentionally as his own (even subconsciously), it would have disappeared. If he simply touched it, accidentally, the mug would have remained there unaffected.

And concerning the fact that no one noticed the Three on their bearers' fingers, I would say it could have been given by many factors. The first thing is something like "I am not seen when I don't want to", really some sort of, how a stupid simple mortal would say, magic. Second thing is that definitely Elrond or Galadriel had lots of other jewelry, so, you wouldn't think about the ring on Elrond's hand deeper than you do about the circlet on his head. If you look at Galadriel's hand, you don't care much of her wedding ring, or this is at least what it seems to you. Maybe if you thought about it deeply, you'd realise that in fact her wedding ring is on the other hand, but here we are back at the problem that you won't probably even think about it. You can look at something and not realise what you are looking at, that's nothing unusual. The more if it is "magic". And in the best case, when a Ringwraith would have met Galadriel at the borders of Lórien, he would have felt terrible power, but I believe it would still need a lot of thinking from him to 100% say that it is stemming from the ring on her hand, even if he anticipated that.

[cesar.ewok]

Legate, I likewise believe that the Elven lords and the Maiar inhabited both worlds; but where exactly is it told?

And a question: wraith world = spirit world?

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Legate

The only moment Sauron sensed the Ring was when Frodo claimed it as his own (in Mordor, what more, even in the place where it was forged).

Hm, I am not completely sure about that:

Originally Posted by The tower of Cirith Ungol

Without any clear purpose he drew out the Ring and put it on again. Immediately he felt the great burden of its weight, and felt afresh, but now more strong and urgent than ever, the malice of the Eye of Mordor, searching, trying to pierce the shadows that it had made for its own defence, but which now hindered it in its unquiet and doubt.

Originally Posted by cesar.ewok

Legate, I likewise believe that the Elven lords and the Maiar inhabited both worlds; but where exactly is it told?

Originally Posted by Many Meetings, FotR

And here in Rivendell there live still some of [Sauron]'s chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Concerning the invisibility, let me add a few more points. I believe TM's explanation to be quite correct. The Elven lords inhabited both the worlds, as well as the Maiar (and Bombadil), so they won't get invisible. Isildur did, the Hobbits did. Aragorn, Denethor, Boromir, everyone probably would, though it may seem strange - and if they really wanted to master the Ring and claimed it as their own, the power would have been sensed stemming from them (something like from Sam when Snaga saw him). And they would have seen to that they find themselves an outfit and they would probably look like a Ringwraith then (i.e. let's say in Denethor's case the Steward's throne - and maybe even the King's, later - usurped by an invisible hooded figure in beautiful Gondorian-coloured black and white cloak and with a silver or golden mask instead of a face).

You know, I had always assumed the Ring would make any mortal invisible, but for some reason the full implications never occurred to me.

Would it be necessary to wear it all the time, though?

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And concerning the fact that no one noticed the Three on their bearers' fingers, I would say it could have been given by many factors. The first thing is something like "I am not seen when I don't want to", really some sort of, how a stupid simple mortal would say, magic. Second thing is that definitely Elrond or Galadriel had lots of other jewelry, so, you wouldn't think about the ring on Elrond's hand deeper than you do about the circlet on his head. If you look at Galadriel's hand, you don't care much of her wedding ring, or this is at least what it seems to you. Maybe if you thought about it deeply, you'd realise that in fact her wedding ring is on the other hand, but here we are back at the problem that you won't probably even think about it. You can look at something and not realise what you are looking at, that's nothing unusual. The more if it is "magic". And in the best case, when a Ringwraith would have met Galadriel at the borders of Lórien, he would have felt terrible power, but I believe it would still need a lot of thinking from him to 100% say that it is stemming from the ring on her hand, even if he anticipated that.

Hmm, I am not sure I buy this part, although I agree with the first part of the post. Galadriel asks Sam if he has seen anything of the Ring and Sam replies that he hasn't, and was in fact wondering what she and Frodo were talking about. And there does not seem to be any mention of people noticing the Ring of Fire on the hand of Gandalf, despite encounters over countless years with all manner of beings (Men, Elves, and even the wizard Saruman, who apparently only gradually came to realize that Gandalf was in possession of the Ring of Fire). Why, for example, would somebody like Saruman, who was sensitive to the use of "magic", or at least the powers associated with a ring like that held by Gandalf, not see it immediately??

All of these imply to me that it was possible to keep the Three Rings invisible or at least unnoticed. Of course, their role is different than the role of the One Ring, which is a ring that literally broadcasts power (thus the ability of the Nazgul and even Gollum to sense it), so this perhaps explains in part how it was possible to keep them hidden.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by cesar.ewok

And a question: wraith world = spirit world?

Of course.

Originally Posted by Raynor

Hm, I am not completely sure about that:

But the part you quote only means, or at least I take it like that, that Sauron knew there was something strange going on there. It could have been a great Elf lord, or Gandalf who was spying in Mordor. What I meant by sensing was that Sauron would know that there is the Ring. And the only moment he 100% knew it was when Frodo put it on. He didn't know at that point - otherwise, he would have sent all the Nazgul to Cirith Ungol. The same, maybe the Necromancer in Dol Guldur could have sensed some strange power stirring up there, but he couldn't have known if it's Bilbo with the Ring, or Thranduil stirring up all his magic around his stronghold, or Gandalf chasing of an army of spiders by all his power unleashed at once, or whatever else.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

You know, I had always assumed the Ring would make any mortal invisible, but for some reason the full implications never occurred to me.

Would it be necessary to wear it all the time, though?

I believe not. But the person would have it with himself, like Bilbo, all the time - and when e.g. Denethor would have welcomed delegates from Harad, I'm sure he'd put the Ring on and intimidated them to do what he wanted (make peace, retreat their armies behind Poros or whatever).

Originally Posted by CSteefel

Hmm, I am not sure I buy this part, although I agree with the first part of the post. Galadriel asks Sam if he has seen anything of the Ring and Sam replies that he hasn't, and was in fact wondering what she and Frodo were talking about. And there does not seem to be any mention of people noticing the Ring of Fire on the hand of Gandalf, despite encounters over countless years with all manner of beings (Men, Elves, and even the wizard Saruman, who apparently only gradually came to realize that Gandalf was in possession of the Ring of Fire). Why, for example, would somebody like Saruman, who was sensitive to the use of "magic", or at least the powers associated with a ring like that held by Gandalf, not see it immediately??

All of these imply to me that it was possible to keep the Three Rings invisible or at least unnoticed. Of course, their role is different than the role of the One Ring, which is a ring that literally broadcasts power (thus the ability of the Nazgul and even Gollum to sense it), so this perhaps explains in part how it was possible to keep them hidden.

And this is what I am saying. The people simply don't think about them. And what more, the "magic" would be fooling them (at least those with lesser will) so that they won't remember/think of that even if they got an idea about such a thing. Indeed, only someone who really came to one of the bearers with the intention "Now I will go and take a look whether he doesn't have one of the Rings" could spot them. It would have to be real interest, not just simple curiosity. From all the Middle-Earth I believe only Sauron, Saruman and the Ringwraith (or the Mouth), the latter only had they been specially instructed for that by Sauron, could spot the Rings and not be fooled by that "misleading spell". But Saruman was with Elrond and Galadriel probably only during the White Council meetings, let's say once in fifty or hundred years, and he didn't know whether the bearers are Elrond and Galadriel or Glorfindel and Celeborn or someone else in their houses. The more that the Three were taboo and were never spoken of. Cf. when Glóin asks the Elves about the Rings:

Originally Posted by Council of Elrond

"But still there are the Three. What of the Three Rings of the Elves? Very mighty Rings, it is said. Do not the Elf-lords keep them? (..) I see Elf-lords here. Will they not say?"
The Elves returned no answer. (...) Elrond [said] "(...) But of them it is not permitted to speak."

Glóin was not completely stupid. He was now informed about the Rings and he had two of them in the room with him, yet he turns to all the "Elf-lords" in the room. Despite the fact that Elrond was the Master of the House, it was not self-evident that he would be one of the Keepers, as many of us, the outside observes, would think. Even Saruman, during his visit of Rivendell, would have to check all the elves in the house to be sure. Anyway, wouldn't giving the Ring to one of the more "active" elves who ride out to the wilderness, be more useful? (Of course the learned would know that the Three were made for protection and healing, but still.) And concerning Sam, he didn't even expect any Ring in there. He was also probably thinking of Gaffer and the Shire at that time. He didn't even see or hear what Galadriel and Frodo were talking about.

Anyway, this topic would do for many pages and it's very intriguing, but it's not actually the main topic of this thread.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But the part you quote only means, or at least I take it like that, that Sauron knew there was something strange going on there. It could have been a great Elf lord, or Gandalf who was spying in Mordor.

Hm, I would say that Sauron would be able to differentiate between an Elf Lord/Gandalf and the One Ring, with which he had a special relation. I don't think he was able to spot elves or istari by pure subtle perception, from miles away, but given the episode of Frodo at the Amon Lhaw, he was capable of perceiving the worn Ring from a far greater distance.

But Saruman was with Elrond and Galadriel probably only during the White Council meetings, let's say once in fifty or hundred years, and he didn't know whether the bearers are Elrond and Galadriel or Glorfindel and Celeborn or someone else in their houses.

I would guess that, given the importance of their coalition, the elves did not keep their secrets concerning the rings from Saruman, esspecially considering his developing interest in them. As for the taboo about them, I believe it applies only to those outside the White Council.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Raynor

Hm, I would say that Sauron would be able to differentiate between an Elf Lord/Gandalf and the One Ring, with which he had a special relation. I don't think he was able to spot elves or istari by pure subtle perception, from miles away, but given the episode of Frodo at the Amon Lhaw, he was capable of perceiving the worn Ring from a far greater distance.

Well, but then you are definitely saying that Sauron knew the Ring was in Mordor. Which is something I just cannot agree with. Yes, he could sense, in general, the Ring - sometimes. But he was not 100% precise. I imagine it as being inside a room where there are many people talking. Among them are people like Galadriel, Saruman, Gandalf, Frodo, Denethor... All of them are important to Sauron. Suddenly, Sauron hears a raised voice from Osgiliath. He looks around - and it takes him a little to focus and then he notices it's only Denethor marching his armies to Osgiliath. Then he hears another shout from Rivendell - and sees that it's his Nazgul being splashed at the Bruinen Fords. Then he hears another shout, and sees that it's coming from Amon Hen. Looks there, but suddenly another, stronger shout comes from other place and he looks over there and so he doesn't notice Frodo.
I would say Sauron knew about some power in Mordor. But he did not know where the Ring is. He could have thought Aragorn has it, or Gandalf, or anyone else. Later, when Shagrat brought the mithril-coat and the dagger and the cloak to Barad-Dur, Sauron would have known there was some sort of "spy from the Shire" there, and if he were to believe Shagrat, he would have known there was also "the great elf warrior" with him, who is still running around somewhere. Ergo, if he knew the Ring is in Mordor, he would make all effort to catch that "great elf warrior" - mainly, he would have the clear information now: there is a great elf warrior with MY ring running around at Mordor. No, this is, in my opinion, not what Sauron could have thought in the slightest.

Also, consider this (emphasise mine):

Originally Posted by Mount Doom

And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dur was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare.

Sauron did not expect it. Not in the slightest. He did not even think that the Ring could appear in Mordor. The Mouth of Sauron presumes that Frodo was "spying" in Mordor. This is probably the opinion of Sauron himself. So, no Ring inside Mordor. Even if Frodo's mysterious companion had it, Sauron would have acted differently. When he sent the Nine to the Shire, why wouldn't he made all effort to get the Ring inside his own realm? No, he just thought that there are some spies with no magic Rings. Yes, it will be good to catch them, but the war with Gondor was far more important.

Originally Posted by Raynor

I would guess that, given the importance of their coalition, the elves did not keep their secrets concerning the rings from Saruman, esspecially considering his developing interest in them. As for the taboo about them, I believe it applies only to those outside the White Council.

Not entirely sure. It is only one of the possibilities. As I said, it will be for another thread. But why did not then Gandalf tell Saruman about Narya? It is said that

Originally Posted by Unfinished Tales, The Istari

And the Grey Messenger took the Ring, and kept it ever secret; yet the White Messenger (who was skilled to uncover all secrets) after a time became aware of this gift, and begrudged it

I believe that the Three were taboo even among those in the Council. Also, we are told that Galadriel's view of Saruman was not as trustworthy. It could be that originally, the Rings were hidden, Saruman discovered Gandalf's, and that was before the first Council even met. And later, at the Council, they all agreed to tell about the Rings to each other. That would be explainable. But, was that really even needed? The Three were made "for protection and healing", and they did not have much of a strategic value in the Council's plans. "My Ring and Lórien are my own business, I will take care of it. Now let's focus on other things that bother us outside our own realms." That could be, in short, the motto of the Ring-bearers on the Council.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, but then you are definitely saying that Sauron knew the Ring was in Mordor. Which is something I just cannot agree with.

I agree with your argument. While the Cirith Ungol event does not qualify as a moment when Sauron could have certainly and objectively identified the One Ring, it could be that he unreasonably discarded it because of his flawed logic and the deceit of his enemies - the very thing they were betting on. He was effectively helped on believing in false information/conditions and discarding the real deal.

But why did not then Gandalf tell Saruman about Narya?

Hm... strange indeed. I would guess that Cirdan requested that, giving his relative mistrust of Saruman (at least when compared to Gandalf) - otherwise I could not explain why would Gandalf be secretive towards the leader of his mission, from their, likely, first year in Middle Earth. Perhaps Cirdan knew of Gandalf's honest allegiance to Saruman and he wanted to prevent a situation where Saruman would get to own it, by requesting it - therefore, he may have forbidden such an act or anything that may lead to it. However, it is, indeed, simpler to just accept that the ring-holders kept the matter to themselves.

[Morwen]

At the end of the Silmarillion, in the part concerning the Rings of Power, isn't there a passage which mentions that Saruman knew that Narya had been given to Gandalf and in fact resented this? Or is this a false memory (don't have book with me).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morwen

At the end of the Silmarillion, in the part concerning the Rings of Power, isn't there a passage which mentions that Saruman knew that Narya had been given to Gandalf and in fact resented this? Or is this a false memory (don't have book with me).

Yes, it was, and if you look two posts above, you will find me quoting the same from UT, at the very end of my post. It was already debated here even before.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Morwen

At the end of the Silmarillion, in the part concerning the Rings of Power, isn't there a passage which mentions that Saruman knew that Narya had been given to Gandalf and in fact resented this? Or is this a false memory (don't have book with me).

Hm, Of the rings of power and the Third Age actually contradicts the passage quoted by Legate from UT, concerning Saruman knowing about the possessor of Narya:

But the Red Ring remained hidden until the end, and none save Elrond and Galadriel and Cirdan knew to whom it had been committed.

[CSteefel]

In the Rings of Power in the Silmarillion, it says of the 3 rings

Of the Three Rings that the Elves had preserved unsullied no open word was ever spoken among the Wise, and few even of the Eldar knew where they were bestowed.

It is also stated that "ere the Third Age was ended", it was known that the Rings were with Elrond and Galadriel,

But the Red Ring remained hidden until the end, and none save Elrond and Galadriel and Cirdan knew to whom it had been committed.

But as for Saruman discovering that Gandalf had Narya, this is from The Unfinished Tales, The Istari

And the Grey Messenger took the Ring, and kept it ever secret; yet the White Messenger (who was skilled to uncover all secrets) after a time became aware of this gift, and begrudged it, and it was the beginning of the hidden ill-will that he bore to the Grey, which afterwards became manifest.

So there is a contradiction here. I see now (later) that Legate already posted on this...

[Galendor]

So the consensus seems to be that invisibility was not an intended power of the One Ring, but rather a side effect of its true power - allowing the wearer into the wraith or "spirit" dimension. Mortal beings such as men, hobbits, and dwarfs would uncontrollably become invisible as a side effect of wearing the Ring, but certain beings such as Sauron, high Elves, and Gandalf would probably be able to control the shift into the wraith dimension and thus would not necessarily be invisible if wearing the Ring.

The Ring also confers unnaturally long life to the mortal wearer, I wonder if this is also just a side effect rather than an intended power. Perhaps a mortal stops ageing whenever in the wraith dimension (whenever wearing the Ring). I suppose just keeping the Ring in your pocket or on a chain would not confer long life. Gollum, I suppose, probably wore the ring for very long periods when living under the Misty Mountains. He probably wore it while sleeping.

Any light emitted by the wearer or an object they were holding would be visible.

Also I think the mortal wearer is not 100% invisible but very close to it - In The Hobbit, Bilbo found that when wearing the Ring in full sunlight, he still cast a faint shadow. So the wearer must absorb some light and thus not be completely transparent (invisible), agreed?

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Raynor

Hm... strange indeed. I would guess that Cirdan requested that, giving his relative mistrust of Saruman (at least when compared to Gandalf) - otherwise I could not explain why would Gandalf be secretive towards the leader of his mission, from their, likely, first year in Middle Earth. Perhaps Cirdan knew of Gandalf's honest allegiance to Saruman and he wanted to prevent a situation where Saruman would get to own it, by requesting it - therefore, he may have forbidden such an act or anything that may lead to it. However, it is, indeed, simpler to just accept that the ring-holders kept the matter to themselves.

Or even beyond the wishes of Cirdan, there seem to be a general agreement that the whereabouts of the Three Rings was not spoken of. So when Elrond says that "we do not speak of them", this may have reflected a general agreement among the bearers of the Three Rings and Gandalf simply followed this in not revealing the fact that he had Narya to Saruman.

If this is true, presumably this dates all the way back to the Second Age, when the Three Rings were first revealed to Sauron, and then hidden away.

Otherwise, I agree that the invisibility conveyed by the One Ring has to do with transport to the Wraith world. The Three Rings never had anything to do with this power and therefore have no such effect.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

The Ring also confers unnaturally long life to the mortal wearer, I wonder if this is also just a side effect rather than an intended power.

No, I don't think so. It was quite deliberate, indeed the principal function of the Rings. Celebrimbor's purpose was to slow or halt the ravages of the swift passage of Time in Middle-earth; to allow the creation of places like Lorien wherein the Elves would feel the burden of years the less. I suppose one could say that it was 'unintended' in the sense that he never intended for Mortals to have them, of course- for them serial longevity was unnatural and eventually a horror.

I suppose just keeping the Ring in your pocket or on a chain would not confer long life. Gollum, I suppose, probably wore the ring for very long periods when living under the Misty Mountains. He probably wore it while sleeping.

This isn't so, in fact it's expressly refuted in the text. Gollum wore It very little in the dark tunnels. Bilbo put it on occasionally, and briefly. It was possesion which caused the 'preservation,' and can be seen in Frodo's case as well even though he never wore it before his quest. Bilbo was already aging at the time of the Council: possession had passed on 17 years hence. But of course the really rapid aging only took hold when the Ring and all its works were nullified.

Had Bilbo or especially Gollum worn the Ring for extended periods they would have become wraiths.

[The Might]

I agree with William Cloud Hickli here, indeed the Rings had the power to preserve, though here just like with the invisibility thing I think it is only a side effect. Why would an immortal Maia want to create a Ring that could enable him to live longer? No sense at all. It was the power the Ring had to create (for example the foundations of Barad-dur) that gave it this power to preserve things and this possibly in the presence of mortals made them live longer.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galendor

So the consensus seems to be that invisibility was not an intended power of the One Ring, but rather a side effect of its true power - allowing the wearer into the wraith or "spirit" dimension.

Originally Posted by Galendor

Also I think the mortal wearer is not 100% invisible but very close to it - In The Hobbit, Bilbo found that when wearing the Ring in full sunlight, he still cast a faint shadow. So the wearer must absorb some light and thus not be completely transparent (invisible), agreed?

Agreed. The faint shadow makes it sound as though the Ring is a sort of "cloaking device" that perhaps bends light rays around the wearer, and isn't 100% efficient. If we only had The Hobbit to go by, I'd interpret it that way. However, in The Lord of the Rings, the descriptions of what happens when one puts on the Ring support the idea of going into a parellel dimension. Besides, Gandalf specifically mentions the "wraith world" and "the other side".

Why the shadow, then? And why can someone wearing the Ring still see the real world, although dimly? It's simple: the Ring transports its wearer into the wraith world, but not all the way.

c.f. what Gandalf says to Frodo:

"You were in gravest peril when you wore the Ring, for then you were half in the wraith world yourself, and they might have seized you."

[Galendor]

Why the shadow, then? And why can someone wearing the Ring still see the real world, although dimly? It's simple: the Ring transports its wearer into the wraith world, but not all the way.

Good thinking, good find on the quote from Gandalf, and it makes sense. I guess to be all the way in the wraith dimension, one would have to be, um, dead. So the Ring shifts the wearer part way into that dimension. I suppose we can only speculate why this effect would be useful to Sauron.

When light interacts with matter, it is either reflected, refracted, or absorbed. Refracted light changes direction, and we can't really see that effect. Absorbed light we can see - objects absorbing light will appear darker, or a different color if they only absorb certain wavelengths (colors) of the visible spectrum. I suspect that the wearer of the Ring casts a faint shadow because he/she still absorbs some tiny amount of light. Under bright light, this would cast a faint shadow, and possibly also be seen by an observer as a slighly darkened form if the Ring wearer were standing between an observer and a light source. If the person wearing the Ring were not betwen the observer and the light source, they might appear as a faint "darkness" in front of whatever they were standing in front of.

As far as reflected light is concerned, I wonder if the wearer of the Ring were wearing something very reflective (such as a mithril coat), if light might be reflected from that and be visible to an observer, in a similar fashion as the visible light emitted from a magical glowing sword or vial.

On another note, it seems like the fact that Bilbo wore the Ring continuously for weeks or months while in the Hall of the Mirkwood Elves doesn't quite fit with later interpretations of the Ring's "wraithifying" effect on mortals.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galendor

On another note, it seems like the fact that Bilbo wore the Ring continuously for weeks or months while in the Hall of the Mirkwood Elves doesn't quite fit with later interpretations of the Ring's "wraithifying" effect on mortals.

I see no problem with that. There is the well known "Hobbit-strength" and I also believe even in the case of the Nazgul "wraithifying" did not happen in several weeks or months but in years. The Rings granted a mortal longer life, and I would say the "fading" occured only when the mortal exceeded his normal lifespan too much. The Nazgul appeared several hundred years after the mortal Men got their Rings. Bilbo was more or less okay. Gollum did not wear the Ring much in the latter days. Frodo was okay with the Ring itself, but there was the presence of Nazgul, the much stronger "awakened" will of Mordor, the will of Sauron focused contretely at him, and mainly, in the end, the Morgul-wound. The fact that Frodo almost faded at Bruinen (as Gandalf put it) was not an effect of the Ring, but mainly of the Morgul-wound.

Recommended literature: see Gandalf's words about effect of a Ring at mortal, FotR chapter 2: Shadows of the past; Also: Flight to the Ford, Council of Elrond.

[The Might]

One thing that you must not forget here is that the Ring did have a will of its own. We see Gollum seeing a wheel of fire on Mount Doom and hears the Ring speak. So clearly it could and would use the bearer to fulfill its needs.

‘Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.’

So the Ring could, depending on the need, exert a stronger or weaker force over the bearer. For example it might have tricked Bilbo into thinking it was a good thing so as to escape from the Misty Mountains, but later tried to slowly wear him down and make him a wraith.
Fortunately, he proved to be quite resilient.

[Galendor]

Originally posted by Legate of Amon
There is the well known "Hobbit-strength" and I also believe even in the case of the Nazgul "wraithifying" did not happen in several weeks or months but in years.

Originally posted by The Might
So the Ring could, depending on the need, exert a stronger or weaker force over the bearer.

Both very helpful observations, which greatly improve my thinking on the Ring. Thanks!

Although the Ring had a will of its own, it didn't seem capable of not performing its primary function when worn - transport of the wearer part-way into the wraith dimension (i.e., the mortal wearer turns invisible, whether the Ring 'likes it' or not). I wonder if you slipped the Ring onto a dog's tail if it would become invisible. Heh.

I also wonder what would become of a mortal (or immortal, for that matter) if he/she were to put on all of the rings at once (9 for men, 3 for elves, 7 for dwarf lords, and One to bind them). Spontaneous combustion? Transformation into a higher being? Sorry for my entrance into the realm of pointless speculation. But as far as I know, we really don't know what primary or secondary effects most of these rings had, do we?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

One thing that you must not forget here is that the Ring did have a will of its own. We see Gollum seeing a wheel of fire on Mount Doom and hears the Ring speak. So clearly it could and would use the bearer to fulfill its needs.

Ah. you're opening up an old, old battle here. The other half of the readership insist that it is Frodo speaking, while Sam sees with 'other sight.'

[Nerwen]

Which I why I decided not to comment on that one.

The Ring does appear to have some degree of sentience anyway, though, which was The Might's main point.