Which Male Valar is your favorite?

[littlemanpoet]

Since there are so many Valar, it is necessary to separate them out in some way, so I have chosen to do so by gender and primacy. Please see the "sister thread" to this one for primary Female Valar. Perhaps I will do a poll thread on the Ainur soon.

Feel free to describe what it is that you like about your favorite Vala, and if possible, what characteristics you feel you share with him.

Sorry, you must pick one Vala for the poll. But feel free to name close seconds and thirds, etc.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Easy choice. For the same reason I like reading Paradise Lost.

[Nerwen]

You chose... Melkor???

Aulë for me. I make things.

Edit: Ulmo would be my second choice. I love the sea.

[Bêthberry]

Orome, because of his love of trees and Middle-earth and because he had a thing for creatures that go bump in the night.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

For me, it's obvious at first sight. Ulmo. He is the most wonderful of all the Valar, I liked him waaay back. It may be something to do with how I loved water, sea in particular, I could always identify myself with "many of the Children of Ilúvatar who hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen", not speaking of the feeling of mystery when you have the chance to take a peek into the world underwater... But even then Ulmo is just fantastic as a character, the "secret voice that gainsayeth" and how he helps the Eldar even in exile, not speaking about Men (Tuor and Elwing and Eärendil and all this stuff).

[Macalaure]

Well, I picked the name of a Noldo as my screen name, so this choice is probably not all that surprising.

[A Little Green]

Oromë.

This time I didn't have to think. Because of trees and forests, I suppose.. Though I did consider Ulmo as well, not as much for his "element" as for his character.

[Thinlómien]

I voted Ulmo. He has always been my favourite Vala.

I think I rambled enough about my love for the sea on the With which race do you most identify? -thread, so I probably need not repeat it here... Suffice to say water has always been a very close element to me. I very often dream of water - especially of the sea - and my most usual way of dying in my dreams is by drowning. Oddly, it doesn't even feel as horrible as it's probably supposed to... eek.

There is something very touching in Ulmo himself. Being always alone (not having a spouse like most other Valar) and living isolated from the other Valar makes him an oddly sad character to me. I think he must be solitary by nature, but there's still something sad in him. Besides, how could one not like him since he was the only Vala who really didn't abandon the Children of Ilúvatar?


PS. LMP, these threads of yours might prove very dangerous to me. Thanks to this and the race-thread I have been thinking about the sea a lot lately so I decided to go to have a stroll on the beach before going home today. I indeed went there and sat on a jetty, just watching the grey sea and listening to it (and to cars and noisy children, but lest's not get into that). I was very close to taking my coat, boots, gloves and hat off and diving to the ice-cold sea, but thankfully two things prevented me from doing it: my almost non-existent common sense (swimming in cold water with your clothes on can really be dangerous and walking the few minute walk home in drenched clothes in this weather would have been both very uncomfortable and a very stupid reason to get a cold) and a nosy woman in a swimming suit who came to complain to me. I would have loved to see her expression if I had dived to the sea after her, though.

[Ghazi]

Mandos

He's the wisest of all the Valar. Everytime the other Valar make a decision, I can just see him sighing and telling his minions to add another wing to the Hall.

[Bêthberry]

I cannot believe that so many Downers have chosen that washed-out Ulmo who simply hung around with elves so much. I've always imagined him as slightly pathetic, like a geriatric rock n roller who no longer can draw in the huge stadium crowds and is left with the casino circuit. An aged Jagger desperate for a knighthood.

Did strings of seaweed dance in his hair? Did he walk with a rolling limp like an old salt or was he a merman? And I bet he couldn't teach me to hear mermaids singing.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

You chose... Melkor???

Without the dark of night we cannot see the stars.

[Aganzir]

It was quite hard to decide which one of my favourites would be the number one, but I chose Ulmo.

I do like seas, I do like swimming- but it's Ulmo as a character that fascinates me the most. Living alone in the seas as the sole king of his own subjects (I've always regarded fish and other sea creatures as Ulmo's humble, rather plain servants in a more concrete way than how the books tell it), far wiser and more powerful than them. He doesn't go to the meetings of the Valar if he's not in a mood for it and doesn't ask their permission to do what he thinks best; he remembered and protected the Children of Ilúvatar his way even when they were abandoned by the others. Also, I've always considered him the most powerful of the Valar, not a sad character at all. And anyway, he's the kind of person I always get attracted to.

I like to think that Ulmo's power still lingers in the seas and lakes of the world even though the other Valar are long gone. I had been quite afraid of water for years (for two reasons: when I was a child my cousin gave me a book with a horrible story about Näkki, the evil water spirit of Finnish folklore; and I read in a newspaper about a pike biting a swimmer's leg when I was a little bit too young). It was not until a few years ago that I started fighting that ridiculous phobia. It's somehow comfortable to think that Ulmo might still control the waters. And pikes are under his command and he won't let them bite my leg!

The other Valar I've always liked are Oromë and Aulë. Oromë is quite obvious; I like riding and exploring unknown places. Also one of my long-term dreams is to go hunting on horseback some day (of course not poor little animals but monsters and fell beasts).

I like Aulë's curiousity, his wish to create something of his own (especially as that something was dwarves), but I've never felt any need to identify with him- I'm too impatient and lazy to be good at any kind of handicrafts, maybe apart from drawing.
And even though it certainly isn't so, I consider Aulë a little... simple. Anyway, he's still a sympathetic fellow.

[Gwathagor]

Orome, the Huntsman of the Valar! He rides through the night on a white horse destroying monsters of all shapes, sizes, sexual orientations, and ethnic backgrounds. No compromise! Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out. What's not to like?

[Elmo]

sugar, i went and voted for Ulmo without realising they'd put Melkor in the list

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Without the dark of night we cannot see the stars.

Ah but Melkor did not bring night; he made it evil and full of fear.

[littlemanpoet]

At first I considered voting for Oromë, but realized that Huntsman is not really what draws me most. Then I considered Ulmo because of his character and how much I love the sea and the rivers and streams and waterfalls. But Mandos I find the most intriguing and interesting. He says just mysterious things, has such fascinating foreknowledge. He's just the most intriguing to me.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by JRR

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: ‘Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of thy clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.’


Then Ulmo answered: ‘Truly, Water is become now fairer than my heart imagined, neither had my secret thought conceived the snowflake, nor in all my music was contained the falling of the rain.'

I can't say it better than Ulmo and Illuvatar.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Tulkas was best. He was a great, jolly guy who loved fighting and ale (probably). Melkor was having his way before Tulkas came along and put a stop to it. And everything after that was the other Valar's fault.

[Lush]

I could go for a beer with Tulkas. Therefore, it's an easy choice.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I can't say it better than Ulmo and Illuvatar.

Well but I'm not sure whether it still isn't knocking at the wrong door, since Melkor was surely displeased after he learnt what he achieved by this. "I didn't want beautiful snow and refreshing rain, I wanted to destroy it all, damn it! Now I have to destroy even this stupid snow!" You can thank him, but he would despise you if you told him that, if not openly (so that he could convince you to join him) then definitely in his heart.

Just a note, though. (Bah, yes, it was an attempt to get more votes for Ulmo )

[Lhunardawen]

Mandos is irresistibly intriguing - how can anyone resist someone with a pronouncement of Doom named after him? - and Tulkas is an admirable Vala of action, but I had to go with Ulmo. I love water forms, I've always wanted to experience snow, I miss swimming, I find rainy days a delight (and not just because they could possibly cause classes to be cancelled), and water has such astounding properties that usually escape us because we've got so used to its presence.

And then there's all those things concerning his character. He's loyal, and he makes his presence known but doesn't seek attention. That he had a (rather indirect) hand in Morgoth's eventual downfall, because he didn't stick only with the Eldar whom he knew longer and better, but also extended his watery hand to the younger of the Children of Ilúvatar, seals the deal for me.

Oh, dear. I can almost imagine a Survivor: Valinor thread.

[Groin Redbeard]

Tulkas is the man for me. The only one who defeated Melkor single handedly, and only he and Ulmo, out of all the Valar, saw through Melkor's lies.

[Volo]

Manwë - I've always disliked Manwë. He doesn't seem a good leader and I don't want to be a leader myself either. Too high.

Melkor - He's cruel.

Lórien - Too much harmony and too positive, although I'd like to be Lórien.

Tulkas - Well, Tulkas represents the physical side to me, about which I don't care that much. I'd never go to war, even for freedom, etc.

Oromë - Neither can I relate myself with animals, especially with killing them. I can with the forests, but not enough to overrule the rest.

Aulë - The way he created Dwarves is one of my favourite deeds and it feels like something I might like to do. Creating land and being a smith does not. Even though I might like to be Aulë, I'm not.

Ulmo - Even more than Aulë, I'd like to be Ulmo, but I can't. I don't trust the sea, I can't do music, his deeds are beyond me.

Mandos - I dislike Mandos for being stern, which is close to cruel to me, but his possition is where I'd probably be in if I were a Vala. The Halls of History sounds like a place I'd like to live in. Although he doesn't show himself often, his might is greater than others are probably aware of.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

There is something very touching in Ulmo himself. Being always alone (not having a spouse like most other Valar) and living isolated from the other Valar makes him an oddly sad character to me. I think he must be solitary by nature, but there's still something sad in him. Besides, how could one not like him since he was the only Vala who really didn't abandon the Children of Ilúvatar?

This reminded me of Davem telling me that the role of Ulmo, Lord of Waters was played by an inflatable penguin in the production of the Silmarillion at Birmingham...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

This reminded me of Davem telling me that the role of Ulmo, Lord of Waters was played by an inflatable penguin in the production of the Silmarillion at Birmingham...

He was? Now that's one more reason to like Ulmo, then...

[Vaine]

Ulmo, I have always been intrigued by the seas.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Manwe. I like blue, sapphires, birds, the wind -- and like him, I have been in the sad position of having a certain naivete about evil come back and bite me in the behind. In particular when it involves members of one's own family.

Ulmo... nice enough guy, but I'm terrified of water. Pretty enough to look at, but only at a safe distance. Oddly enough, a result of having a sibling repeatedly attempt to drown me. Oh, yes, I know how Manwe feels....

[Andsigil]

Aule, because he and I are both smiths.

[mark12_30]

Aule, because of this line:
"All the same they will have need of wood."
Hilarious.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Without the dark of night we cannot see the stars.

And yet the stars remain regardless.

[Inziladun]

Without question, Ulmo.
Though second in power among the Valar, he has an unswerving humility and never deviates from the part given him by Eru. I have to admire such devotion to duty.

"But behold!"said (Ulmo). "in the armour of Fate (as the Children of Earth name it) there is ever a rift, and in the walls of Doom, a breach, until the full-making, which ye call the End."

And how can you not like someone who makes speeches like that?

[BGreg]

I will have to go with Aulë.

His creation of the dwarves is fascinating.

[The Might]

By far Tulkas, because he's like me in a way. Funny and merry usually, but dangerous if you annoy him too often. I simply like the guy.

[Groin Redbeard]

Last night I had was lying in bed and couldn’t get to sleep so I started to jot down some reasons why Aule is the most important Vala. Alright, even though I voted for Tulkas on the bases of him being cool:sarcasm:, my truly favorite Vala is Aule. Even though Aule is the least of the great four Valar, he is, in my mind, the greatest contributor to the Ea.

The first time we hear mention of Aule is in the Ainulindale:

Originally Posted by Ainulindale

Of the fabric of Earth had Aule thought, to whom Illuvatar had given skill and knowledge scarce less than to Melkor; but delight and pride of Aule is in the deed of making, and in the thing made, and neither in possession nor his own mastery; wherefore he gives and hordes not, and is free from care, passing ever on to some new work.

This is the main reason why I like Aule. The passage refers to him as being very industrious, the type of man who is never satisfied with his work, and always looking for something to do. The passage also mentions Melkor in similarity to Aule. Melkor is conniving and very prideful of himself; whereas, Aule is generous and kind (probably the most feeling of the male Valar). I have always thought of Aule as being the complete opposite of Melkor. A “Saruman as he should have been.”

Aule’s works in the early days were some of the greatest he ever did. The great mountain of Taniquetil, upon which the thrones of Manwe and Varda stand, was made out of marble, Iron, Bronze, Gold, and Silver with his own hands. Let’s not forget that all the great mountain ranges are of his making.

Aule labored many ages (I think it was three) and built the city of the gods: Valinor. Building an entire city out of precious gems and ore, now that’s impressive.

Upon Osse’s cementing of the Island of Tol Eressea, Aule gathered the dust from his workshop and laid it on the shores of the island. It was said that the sand sparkled as if it were gold.

He was also a leader in the influence of the Elves save Ulmo (though Ulmo never gave them much knowledge in anything save music). Of Aule did the Elves learn to craft weapons and armor to defend themselves from Melkor’s servants, even though there was no immediate danger in Valinor. Perhaps he had some foresight about the Elves’ destiny.

Originally Posted by Music Of Ainur

Of him did the Noldoli, who were the sages of the Eldar and thirsted ever after new lore and fresh knowledge, learned uncounted wealth of crafts, and magic and sciences unfathomed. From his teaching, whereto the elder brought ever their own great beauty of mind and heart and imagining…

The Noldor were also known as the Deep Elves, the people of Aule.


Works of Light
In every attempt to bring light to the world Aule always had a prominent role in the making of the vassals of light. The first were Ringil and Helkar, great lamps which were hung from the pillars of ice that stood at the north and south points of the world (later destroyed by Melkor’s devising). After this, Aule, with the help of Ulmo, made cauldrons for the light from the waters to shine in. However, there was not enough light; ergo, the Two Trees.

The third time that Aule helped, he crafted vassals that caught the nectar of light that flowed from the Trees. This might not seem like an important task, but remember that the nectar of light flowed out of the Trees; and once that nectar was gone the Trees would wane. His vassals made it possible for the nectar to be preserved for more use. However, this was not the greatest of his achievements with the preserving of light. His fourth and last task was to build great carriages that drew the sun and the moon. It is said that the Valar were amazed at his craft.

The coolest out of all Aule’s deeds was the creation of his own stars. It is said in the History of Middle-earth that when Aule heard of the news of the awakening of the elves he dropped his hammer and the sparks from its impact flew heavenward and hung in the sky as stars. He’s a smith and he can make stars? How cool is that!

~~~~~~~~~~

Aule is also one of the few Valar who has a son of prominence. Orome, the great hunter, definitely a dedicated and likable person. Unlike his father, Orome would often go hunting and to war against the creatures of Morgoth.

This brings me to Aule’s greatest labor: the creation of the Dwarves. Last night I was thinking, and it suddenly occurred to me how this story is very much like Abraham and Isaac. Just like Abraham, Aule wished to praise God, Iluvatar in this case, but unlike Abraham, Aule stepped out of place. Was this planned by Iluvatar? Tolkien obviously created Iluvatar as an all knowing all seeing god, so he knew that Aule was endeavoring to create the Dwarves. Was this some sort of test to prove that Aule was not so much like Melkor as were their powers (Hey, Aule has an evil twin! Yet another cool thing about him)? I tend to think so.

Aule surely acts in the correct way when Iluvatar decides to intervene. Here comes the Abraham and Isaac part again, Aule out of his love and submission to the will of Iluvatar attempts to correct his work by destroying. Yet Iluvatar has mercy and intervenes again, giving the Dwarves a will of their own. A very touching story whichever way you look at it; probably, the best chapter in the Silmarillion.

So what are the reasons that you like your Vala? I know I poked at Ulmo once or twice; why is he so dang popular? I’d really like to hear the reason why.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

Ulmo... nice enough guy, but I'm terrified of water. Pretty enough to look at, but only at a safe distance. Oddly enough, a result of having a sibling repeatedly attempt to drown me. Oh, yes, I know how Manwe feels....

[Durelin]

Mandos

"The Doomsman of the Valar"...does that not scream uberness?

Judgments, propchecies, and the afterlife... The Hall of Mandos is where I want to go when I die, even if it is just a waiting room...if I can see the weaving of time, of all of history...doesn't matter where I end up after that...

Well.....

I also like his 'other' name, Námo.

[Rumil]

I went for Manwe,

OK, you don't get to know much about him, but I like the idea of living up a mountain amongst the deep blue sky and bright white clouds and snow (assuming central heating is not an issue). Plus he's good friends with the eagles.

The whole Melkor issue was, in retrospect, unfortunate, but Manwe seemed not to understand evil at that time, for which I guess you can't blame him.

Hanging around with Elbereth definitely sounds a plus point!

[Morthoron]

Orome, hunter of the Forest Primeval, and most foul-tempered of the Valar. You have to love an irritable deity brandishing a sharp weapon.

[Gwathagor]

I wouldn't say he's irritable. I seem to recall Tolkien writing that Orome didn't get mad as easily as Tulkas, but when he did, he'd get REALLY mad and certainly wouldn't laugh like Tulkas would.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I wouldn't say he's irritable. I seem to recall Tolkien writing that Orome didn't get mad as easily as Tulkas, but when he did, he'd get REALLY mad and certainly wouldn't laugh like Tulkas would.

I like Orome more than others simply because he's...Orome. Part of it is what Gwath said. I like forests, but I also like Orome's character. It's hard to explain the exact thing that I like in him; he's...fair, I guess. Patient, but terrible in anger...
Mandos would be my second choice, and Ulmo - my 3rd. Melkor is pretty cool, though. Mandos speaks very little, but whenever he says something, it's something really powerful and weighty. I chose Ulmo because I love water, and that's reason enough.