When is LotR bad for you?

[Volo]

As I was reading alatar's "Say what?" thread I turned my attention to the age when kids already know about LotR. That brought me to the fact that my 9-year-old brother doesn't really know what LotR is, or any other Tolkien-related stuff. I might be that I'm just lousy brother, but what I think to be the cause to this is that he hasn't been allowed to watch the films because of their violence (?). I don't know if he's watched them secretly, but no way openly. Some time ago I suggested to read the Hobbit with him, but he told me that Tolkien is rubbish. I later found why he though that Tolkien is rubbish: he didn't know who Tolkien is.

At that I got curious and here's my question to you: Have you been discouraged away from Tolkien because of anything or have you seen others discouraged?

I remember there being a thread about some Christian schools banning Tolkien, I couldn't find the thread (or any similar thread), but I hope that the discussion could be revived with different points of view.

I haven't ever seen anyone discouraged from Tolkien itself, but I have seen people discouraged from playing a multiplayer online Tolkien game.

I suspect this to be more to do with the fact that such games can be addictive by their nature and people with problems can 'escape' into such virtual worlds instead of dealing with their RL issues, instead of anything to do with the Tolkien subject matter.

[Folwren]

I think that LotR is not entirely meant for the very young...the movies are very violent and in places very scarry, and in other places, very disturbing, and when I have kids, I don't think I'll want them to have to watch that until they're about ten.

As for the books...well, as soon as my kids are old enough to comprehend it, I'll be reading The Hobbit to them. I don't know when I'll allow the LotR to be introduced.

I myself was not really 'hindered' when I wanted to read it. My older brother read The Hobbit allowed to the family when I was, oh, maybe 8. Then sometime later it was read out loud again, I believe. In the mean time, I saw pictures that my brother drew or that he pulled up on the internet - illustrations for the LotR, and although I thought the pictures were neat, I never thought to pick up the books.

(A bit off topic, but it's a story somewhat related -
I still remember looking at a picture of the Balrog and Gandalf on the bridge. I believe it was by John Howe - a fantastic painting. I leant over my brother's chair and stared at the detail. "Who's he?" I asked, pointing at Gandalf. My brother explained. "And that?" "That's a demon of Morgoth." No idea who Morgoth was, but that was a fair answer. "Did he win? Gandalf?" "Won't tell you!" And I don't believe I found out until I read the books....)

Anyway, when I finally picked up the books to read I was twelve, I think, and no one stopped me.

-- Folwren

[Lord Halsar]

That some people even discourage or turn away from Tolkien's works altogether has always astounded me. I myself was practically raised by LotR and the Hobbit. My father introduced it to me at the mere age of five, and i have loved it ever since. As for the matter that the name of the thread portrays, LotR, in my opinion, is never bad for a person(Save for in my case, as it is slowly but surely driving me mad. I often hear German voices in my head telling me various things about Morgoth)
Tolkien's literature has made me who I am today. An independant, near-brilliant, heartless person of malice with an undeniable carelessness of other people's problems, in other words, the half-Irish half-German spawn of Morgoth Bauglir, aka, the perfect republican. You could say that i have, "Poured my cruelty, my malice, and my will to dominate all life" into the creation of another man.

[Melilot Brandybuck]

My mother-in-law once said to me, when I told her I enjoyed reading Tolkien, that only "hippies and weird people read THOSE silly books."

Well, I'm not a hippy (that era was before my time) so I guess that means i'm *weird.*

In my MIL's mind, well-brought-up English middle-class ladies do not read THOSE types of silly books. I couldn't help thinking, after that exchange, that had MIL ever met Tolkien, she probably would have very much approved of him as a person and a scholar.

I'm sure she thinks of him as a funny little bearded man sat in a cave with flowers in his hair and old typewriter, whose inspiration comes as the result of a drug-induced dream.

[Wanderer of Light]

Originally Posted by Volo

That brought me to the fact that my 9-year-old brother doesn't really know what LotR is, or any other Tolkien-related stuff. I might be that I'm just lousy brother, but what I think to be the cause to this is that he hasn't been allowed to watch the films because of their violence (?). I don't know if he's watched them secretly, but no way openly.

I went to the cinema with my mother to watch the LoTr movies when I was... uh.... I'm 15 now.... the first one was released in 2001, so I was a 9-year-old-little-brother as well back then as . I remember, though understanding it was (back then) kinda hard at times, it was al ready my favourite movie.....

Now, I have been discouraged to read Tolkien though.... After I saw the third movie, I wanted to read the books as well, and so I did. Now the LoTR's I red in Dutch (which is my native language), after that I red The Hobbit in English... Since I was 12 or 13 or something The Hobbit wasn't to difficult for me, I managed that quit easily. ut after that I still hadn't had enough of Tolkien.

Well here comes the problem, the next (obvious) book on my list was The Sil'. Now I can assure you, reading that in English, not being a native English speaker and a 13-year-old, is quit difficult. (It was good for my English though ). It discouraged me a little in the beginning, especially the stuff the Beginning, when the cool-butt-kicking-über-elves starded kicking some butt I starded liking it more and more .

[alatar]

Note that, though definitely not for all, my kids have seen all of the films, including that 'older stuff' from before Jackson.

And, as I've stated elsewhere, the LotR chapters preceding Bree have put off 'readers' (and I use the word loosely) within my own extended family. And my parents weren't the biggest fans back in the day as Tolkien's works seemed too much like AD&D, and obviously that stuff is demonic. It's funny to see my mother having jumped on the wagon after reading about Tolkien's religiosity and relationship with Lewis.

[Quempel]

I think, as lordaule said, it is when LoTR becomes too important, an obsession, the most important thing in your life. When a person becomes too attached or too addicted to it, then it is a problem. I think some religious leaders also think it is evil, because they have never read the book and/or don't understand it. I know that one church here banned both LoTR and HP, because they had wizards and wizards are evil (according to them).

I have also found people who are so closed minded that they can't even imagine reading such a 'foolish fantsy' book. I have no idea what it like to live in a world that tiny.

[Boromir88]

Nice thread Volo. Tolkien's good friend, Donald Swann, said some things that I always keep in mind. Swann co-wrote The Road Goes Ever On, along with Tolkien, and the foreward is a pleasant reflection of his friend:

"I used to feel that the Tolkien dimension was almost a danger. I then went against this, and decided I would enter it at any time I chose, but with this golden rule...that I must be able to emerge, shut the book, and get up from the chair. If I can't, I will earn the disappproval of the author. He was an upright man in the real world, and had no intention of casting a spell on anyone. I told him once of a young man who thought he was Frodo. "I've ruined their lives," he said disconsolately."

As much time Tolkien spent on writing his books, that was only a fraction of his life. His work in academics, his family life, his religious life, his time spent with chaps at the pub...I'm simply amazed that he had the time for all this! If I could ask him anything it would be about establishing good time management skills.

Anyway, I think Letter 181 cuts right to the heart of the question:

'I hope that you have enjoyed The Lord of the Rings? Enjoyed is the key-word. For it was written to amuse (in the highest sense): to be readable.'

Seeing as we are all different people with different interests, liking different things, the way we 'enjoy' the books are all different. For myself, I love reading and analyzing the story, particularly it's historical context. If I wasn't in HR, I would totally be a History teacher. Others take interest in the art work, or perhaps RPGing, or maybe the religious context. There are several people I know who are more interested in the author then any of the books he wrote, or perhaps you just want to sit down, relax, and read a good book. So, how we all find our personal enjoyment is going to be different.

One thing to keep in mind though is there is a life to live. The books were written to 'be readable' for the reader's own enjoyment; nothing more. Remembering what Donald Swann says, we just have to be able to 'shut the book and get up from the chair'. As my impression of Tolkien is that he was a warm, and down to earth fellow, he wouldn't want to find out that his story had consumed the life of one of his readers. Afterall, as much time as Tolkien spent writing his story and replying to his readers, he still set the pen down and got up from the chair.

It's interesting people seem to be embarassed at times to let people know things such as Star Wars, or The Lord of the Rings. By like I don't mean read it once and think 'hmm that was fun...next' but like as in you take a deep interest in it and just love talking about it. But really, if you think about it it's know different than someone else's 'obsession.' (if you want to refer call it that) Everyone has something they are passionate about. I have a friend who loves everything that has to do with Anderson Cooper, my mother reads all the Stephen King books...it's really the same passion I have for anything Tolkien related. But we can all set aside our obsessions and get out of that chair.

Although, I'm sure some can tell you I am obsessed with Sean Bean and Natalie Portman, but that's more of a 'strong fondness for two talented actors'

[Lalwendë]

I always wonder why people attach the label to things like Tolkien or Star Wars that they are 'dangerous' because they attract devoted followings of fans who get really into the whole 'world' created. I've met few fans who really do go too far, and those for the most part are just eccentric anyway. And we never say the same things about football fans who have the same devotion, who will not have a red car or wear a blue shirt for example if it is representative of a team they hate. When you listen in to blokes talking through the minutiae of the weekend's footie results on a Monday morning at work, you don't think "Tch! Geeks!" but really they are just as 'geeky' as a bunch of Tolkien fans arguing about Balrog wings.

As for people who think Tolkien is sinister 'devil worship' and then suddenly take an interest because someone tells them he was a Catholic, well, that's a little worrying to me. Makes you wonder how much control their 'leaders' have over them! Likewise the people who make up the largest group of 'disapprovers' that I know, namely the type who think they are snootily 'above such things' as Tolkien, the cod-Intelligentsia.

I'm not sure where this quote was originally found, but a friend of mine shared this with me:

"I am not at all sure that the tendency to treat this whole thing as a kind of vast game is really good--certainly not for me, who find that kind of thing only too fatally attractive."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by lordaule

I'm not sure where this quote was originally found, but a friend of mine shared this with me:

"I am not at all sure that the tendency to treat this whole thing as a kind of vast game is really good--certainly not for me, who find that kind of thing only too fatally attractive."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien

It's a good thing there was no Dungeons and Dragons when Tolkien was a lad or maybe we'd never have had Lord of the Rings

[Lindale]

When is Tolkien bad?? When the authorities say so. I remember that in my grade six (I was ten years old, an accelerated little wacko who loved fantasies including Harry Potter and LotR) in a nice little Catholic school, my teacher just lost her nerve and confiscated my FotR that I was reading while lunchbreak, saying how nice little girls don't read this and don't do that instead of yada yada yada... and I called my dad afterwards, not because I loved the books back then, but because I was scared of coming home without my new book. It turned out a very nasty event, with my dad and his mates from the local department of education, arguing with the nuns and the teacher-from-hell. After eons of waiting for a result the book was returned to me, along with an apology to me and my dad, and that was when I thought that it must be good, the book, and that got me hooked to Tolkien.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Lindale

When is Tolkien bad?? When the authorities say so. I remember that in my grade six (I was ten years old, an accelerated little wacko who loved fantasies including Harry Potter and LotR) in a nice little Catholic school, my teacher just lost her nerve and confiscated my FotR that I was reading while lunchbreak, saying how nice little girls don't read this and don't do that instead of yada yada yada... and I called my dad afterwards, not because I loved the books back then, but because I was scared of coming home without my new book. It turned out a very nasty event, with my dad and his mates from the local department of education, arguing with the nuns and the teacher-from-hell. After eons of waiting for a result the book was returned to me, along with an apology to me and my dad, and that was when I thought that it must be good, the book, and that got me hooked to Tolkien.

Wow! What a story! It seems to have ended very well.