Dark haired Rohirrim?

[MatthewM]

Does anybody know of any dark haired Rohirrim that Tolkien mentions in specific? Do you think Tolkien intended any dark haired Rohirrim? The same question could be asked about Gondor- did Tolkien ever mention any blonde Gondorians? I don't recall anything, it seems as though unless mingled in marriage, Rohan is blonde, Gondor is dark.

[The Might]

From what we know from the books the Rohirrim were tall, fair, pale, and had blond hair (which they wore long and braided) and mostly had blue eyes.
It could well be that this was because of their descent mostly from the House of Hador.

[The Sixth Wizard]

I'm sure I remember that Imrahil was blonde, but I guess he could be ousted as he is from Dol Amroth and they're all a bit different there.

I don't know why, but I also always picture Helm Hammerhand as dark-haired, though I'm probably wrong there.

[Finduilas]

I think Imrahil was dark-haired. Here was what I found on him...

And last and proudest, Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth... And a company of knights in full harness riding grey horses; and behind them seven hundreds of men at arms, tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, singing as they came.

This doesn't say particularly(sp) but it seems to generalize in such a way that he would also be dark-haired.


It seems to me as if all Gondorians are dark, and all Rohanians are blond.

[Formendacil]

I can't remember if it actually says what colour Gríma's hair is... but I have never mentally pictured it as blond. If his hair colour IS specified anywhere, that could be taken as contrary evidence.

[Anguirel]

Isn't Grima portrayed as much older in the books? I always imagined a sort of stereotypical evil counsellor, a hunched old man with lank grey hair, and was almost pleasantly surprised by Brad Dourif's version which was more Mordred than Methuselah...

If he was grey haired, then his hair's original colour would be a moot point. I agree, it's hard (although quite satisfying for one as dark as I) to picture him blond.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

I can't remember if it actually says what colour Gríma's hair is... but I have never mentally pictured it as blond. If his hair colour IS specified anywhere, that could be taken as contrary evidence.

I remember reading that Grima's hair colour is not mentioned anywhere. I could be wrong, but I believe his hair colour is just as much of a mystery as Legolas'.

[Thinlómien]

But the concept of fair hair is relative. I - a Finn - think I have relatively dark or at least "middle dark" hair, but if I asked anyone from say the Mediterranean region (or from Africa or Asia especially), they'd porbably call my hair dark blonde.

However, I think Brits and Finns have relatively similar concept of fair and dark hair, so I need not worry about that here. Anyway, I don't think all Rohirrim need to be necessarily blonde, but some of them might have red or light or middle brown hair. (So I could maybe be a dark-haired rohir... yay.) No folk or race in this world has only blonde hair (it would be quite unnatural) so I don't think the Rohirrim would have either - even if most of them were blondes. (Remember Gamling and Háma in the movies - they weren't blonde, but relatively fair and definitely Rohir-y enough if you ask me.)

As for specially mentioned dark-haired Rohirrim... what about Wulf (the one who Helm Hammerhand and Fréalaf Hildeson fought against) who had Dunlending blood in his veins?

And the Gondorians - I picture them at least relatively dark-haired. That would only make sense, because some of them have (even little) Númenórean blood in them and Númenóreans are dark-haired. Also the natives of Gondor - or at least some of them - are described as rather dark in various places: some parts of LotR and in Peoples of ME. Also, Gondor is in south, so if ME's climate resembles that of our world's, it would be only natural that most of the inhabitants would have brown or black hair unless they have moved there from further north.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And the Gondorians - I picture them at least relatively dark-haired. That would only make sense, because some of them have (even little) Númenórean blood in them and Númenóreans are dark-haired. Also the natives of Gondor - or at least some of them - are described as rather dark in various places: some parts of LotR and in Peoples of ME. Also, Gondor is in south, so if ME's climate resembles that of our world's, it would be only natural that most of the inhabitants would have brown or black hair unless they have moved there from further north.

But were the Númenoreans originally all dark-haired themselves? I know this is Tolkien's predominant conception, at least in regards to the Faithful in Middle-Earth, but we are told that the majority of the original Númenoreans were from the House of Hador--which is always associated with fairer hair. We know this because we are told of a Bëorian minority in western Númenor, and we are also (if memory serves) told that the House of Haleth was the least populous and most decimated by the time of Númenor's settlement.

It follows, therefore, that even if the Númenoreans weren't totally blond, there would have been a high proportion of those who should have been.

Of course, the placement of the Bëorians in Númenor has me wondering if the Faithful were predominantly Bëorian in ancestry, and thus predominantly dark-haired. All the same, it may be that the dark hair prevalent in Gondor and Arnor is more a result of the indigenous populations than the incoming Númenoreans. In Arnor, there were Edainic tribes, possibly/probably more closely related to the House of Bëor, as well as the Breemen/Dunlending/relatives of the House of Haleth of the Minihiriath. And in Gondor the indigenous tribes appear to have been related to the Men of the Mountains, and so of the same racial stock as the Dunlendings.

And, except for the House of Hador and their kin (mainly the Rohirrim), all the above are said to be dark haired. Well, the Houses of Bëor and Haleth are, and the Dunlendings and various relatives are akin to the Halethrim, so it seems a safe assumption.

[Lalwendë]

It'd certainly be interesting if there was textual evidence that most/all Rohirrim were blonde and most/all Gondorians were dark. This would hint at very little if any intermingling between the two nations and as such would make them insular to an incredible degree. As Lommy says, no real nation has an 'exclusive' colouring (though some colourings may be more common in some countries/regions - you see a LOT of ginger Scots!) - this is due to intermingling which goes back for millennia.

Maybe of course this underlines one of the points that Tolkien was trying to make, that the race of Men was not even nearly as united as it ought to have been. So their 'sins' in attitude emerged in their appearance?

Anyway, I want to know where the redheads were?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Anyway, I want to know where the redheads were?

Interestingly, an RPG guidebook for tabletop RPGs, The Middle-Earth Role-playing (or M.E.R.P.) suggests that Beornings were often redheaded. I have absolutely no clue where they base this assumption - as far as I know the only Beorning whose hair colour is mentioned is Beorn himself, who had black hair.
(I know the RPG-book isn't a very reliable source of information, but I just felt like mentioning that - after all, there might be passages in HoME I'm not yet familiar with that might agree with some weird things in the RPG guidebook...)

Originally Posted by Lal

It'd certainly be interesting if there was textual evidence that most/all Rohirrim were blonde and most/all Gondorians were dark. This would hint at very little if any intermingling between the two nations and as such would make them insular to an incredible degree. As Lommy says, no real nation has an 'exclusive' colouring (though some colourings may be more common in some countries/regions - you see a LOT of ginger Scots!) - this is due to intermingling which goes back for millennia.

Well, let's use the Finns as an example again. Finns are one of the most inbred peoples of the world, yet we still have hair colours varying from very fair blonde to dark brown, complexion in different hues of fair skin and mostly blue, green and grey eyes though brown eyes aren't a rarity either. Of course there has been some intermingling but there must have been some intermingling with the Rohirrim as well. I mean, even a few darker people and suddenly you should have darker people in there as well - dark eyes and hair are dominant genes (we can always argue how aware Tolkien was of these things but I'm not going into that).

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Of course, the placement of the Bëorians in Númenor has me wondering if the Faithful were predominantly Bëorian in ancestry, and thus predominantly dark-haired. All the same, it may be that the dark hair prevalent in Gondor and Arnor is more a result of the indigenous populations than the incoming Númenoreans. In Arnor, there were Edainic tribes, possibly/probably more closely related to the House of Bëor, as well as the Breemen/Dunlending/relatives of the House of Haleth of the Minihiriath. And in Gondor the indigenous tribes appear to have been related to the Men of the Mountains, and so of the same racial stock as the Dunlendings.

Wow, I have some reading to do. Haha, reading of The Silm is definitely in order...HoMe as well.

Nice feedback everyone, appreciated...I guess we can assume that there could have been dark haired Rohirrim, but none made it into the main tale.