Please help. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

05-07-2007, 04:30 PM

Hey, sorry for the lack of an introduction in the newcomers post(and my mistake in posting this under movies before..), but when I clicked on the sticky I just ended up staring at a white screen...so I figured it may work out better to introduce myself here along with my questions which from what I can tell this community is best suited to handle. Anyway, for my introduction.

Hey, my actual name is Tom...I'm a college student, International Relations Major/ Poli. Sci. minor, I've read the LotR trilogy more times than I can count (and yet I'm going to hit you with a question about it...figure that out) along with the Hobbit and parts of the Silmarillion (although I found it hard to keep myself reading that one sad to say). I fence (swordplay is fun), I work on my car ('95 firebird with a little 3.4 v6...going to be a v8 once some cash comes to me), cause all kinds of ridiculous trouble with my friends, but more than anything I just consider myself your average nice-guy college student. I hope my introduction was fitting, I have no idea really what you usually post for introductions, since like I said the sticky didn't load for me...but anyway on to my question...

If it seems in bad taste to pose one of my questions for an assignment of mine here, I apologize in advance, but... For a small presentation of mine I'm supposed to speak about the warrior code in connection to epic literature...We've covered The Iliad, and The Mahabharata/The Bhagavad-Gita (the latter was the second worst thing I've ever had to read...only Mein Kampf was worse) and as my third epic tale I chose the Lord of the Rings ...however I'm having trouble relating the warrior code present in LotR to The Iliad and The Bharata...if anyone could point me in the direction of passages which really highlight Tollkien's ideal warrior and the code he lives by I would appreciate it greatly, thank you in advance. I look forward to speaking with you all in the future.

Folwren · 05-07-2007, 06:41 PM

If I understand your question correctly...one part that shows Tolkien's idea of a warrior code is in the chapter The Black Gate Opens, when the Mouth of Sauron comes out. That has to do with an ambassador, so it may not be what you're looking for.

There are probably others who can think of other suggestions and places, but I haven't read the books recently and that's all I can think of right now.

Oh...! Another thing that I found interesting in Tolkien's works was the emphasis that he puts on oaths. When people broke their oaths, there was punishment. Those who lived under the Dwimorberg were under a curse due to their broken oaths and could not be freed from that curse until honoring said oath. That may be another warrior code, per se.

-- Folwren

05-07-2007, 06:58 PM

Thank you, it's hard trying to reread them and find a passage to exemplify what a warrior should be (in Tolkien's eyes anyway). That's the general idea of my presentation, "what is warrior code?" Similarities and differences among the ideas in these epics are hard to find outright for the most part, in The Iliad and The Mahabharata the heroes are born into being warriors (or more precisely the warrior-aristocrats) and have the favor of the gods (think Achilles and Arjuna) you see the difference that some of the greatest of the heroes of LotR are just normal peasants prior to their ordeals (as in the hobbits). I guess a more precise way of putting it is what makes a warrior a warrior? Thank you for steering me towards the passage, the quote by Aragorn on the first page of the chapter is spot on for the similarities between the epics I was looking for...

Estelyn Telcontar · 05-08-2007, 07:23 AM

Welcome, JustSumGie! You might want to check "The Muster of Rohan" in RotK to see if anything is said about the warrior code of the Rohirrim. There may also be something in "Helm's Deep", TTT. Another passage that occurs to me is the exchange between Elrond and Gimli about oath-taking in "The Ring Goes South", FotR.

Are you strictly limited to LotR, or can you include The Hobbit? The Battle of Five Armies toward the end of the book may also include something helpful for you.

05-08-2007, 08:06 AM

Thanks for the suggestions, the passage on oath taking is perfect for my thoughts on honor as being part of a generalized warrior code.

Findegil · 05-09-2007, 12:06 AM

Check also the oath taking of Peregrin to Denethor in the chapter "Minas Tirith".

Respectfully
Findegil

05-07-2007, 04:30 PM	#1
JustSumGie Guest Posts: n/a	Please help. Hey, sorry for the lack of an introduction in the newcomers post(and my mistake in posting this under movies before..), but when I clicked on the sticky I just ended up staring at a white screen...so I figured it may work out better to introduce myself here along with my questions which from what I can tell this community is best suited to handle. Anyway, for my introduction. Hey, my actual name is Tom...I'm a college student, International Relations Major/ Poli. Sci. minor, I've read the LotR trilogy more times than I can count (and yet I'm going to hit you with a question about it...figure that out) along with the Hobbit and parts of the Silmarillion (although I found it hard to keep myself reading that one sad to say). I fence (swordplay is fun), I work on my car ('95 firebird with a little 3.4 v6...going to be a v8 once some cash comes to me), cause all kinds of ridiculous trouble with my friends, but more than anything I just consider myself your average nice-guy college student. I hope my introduction was fitting, I have no idea really what you usually post for introductions, since like I said the sticky didn't load for me...but anyway on to my question... If it seems in bad taste to pose one of my questions for an assignment of mine here, I apologize in advance, but... For a small presentation of mine I'm supposed to speak about the warrior code in connection to epic literature...We've covered The Iliad, and The Mahabharata/The Bhagavad-Gita (the latter was the second worst thing I've ever had to read...only Mein Kampf was worse) and as my third epic tale I chose the Lord of the Rings ...however I'm having trouble relating the warrior code present in LotR to The Iliad and The Bharata...if anyone could point me in the direction of passages which really highlight Tollkien's ideal warrior and the code he lives by I would appreciate it greatly, thank you in advance. I look forward to speaking with you all in the future. Last edited by JustSumGie; 05-07-2007 at 04:52 PM.

05-07-2007, 06:41 PM	#2
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	If I understand your question correctly...one part that shows Tolkien's idea of a warrior code is in the chapter The Black Gate Opens, when the Mouth of Sauron comes out. That has to do with an ambassador, so it may not be what you're looking for. There are probably others who can think of other suggestions and places, but I haven't read the books recently and that's all I can think of right now. Oh...! Another thing that I found interesting in Tolkien's works was the emphasis that he puts on oaths. When people broke their oaths, there was punishment. Those who lived under the Dwimorberg were under a curse due to their broken oaths and could not be freed from that curse until honoring said oath. That may be another warrior code, per se. -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

05-07-2007, 06:58 PM	#3
JustSumGie Guest Posts: n/a	Thank you, it's hard trying to reread them and find a passage to exemplify what a warrior should be (in Tolkien's eyes anyway). That's the general idea of my presentation, "what is warrior code?" Similarities and differences among the ideas in these epics are hard to find outright for the most part, in The Iliad and The Mahabharata the heroes are born into being warriors (or more precisely the warrior-aristocrats) and have the favor of the gods (think Achilles and Arjuna) you see the difference that some of the greatest of the heroes of LotR are just normal peasants prior to their ordeals (as in the hobbits). I guess a more precise way of putting it is what makes a warrior a warrior? Thank you for steering me towards the passage, the quote by Aragorn on the first page of the chapter is spot on for the similarities between the epics I was looking for... Last edited by JustSumGie; 05-07-2007 at 08:41 PM.

05-08-2007, 07:23 AM	#4
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Welcome, JustSumGie! You might want to check "The Muster of Rohan" in RotK to see if anything is said about the warrior code of the Rohirrim. There may also be something in "Helm's Deep", TTT. Another passage that occurs to me is the exchange between Elrond and Gimli about oath-taking in "The Ring Goes South", FotR. Are you strictly limited to LotR, or can you include The Hobbit? The Battle of Five Armies toward the end of the book may also include something helpful for you. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' Last edited by Estelyn Telcontar; 05-08-2007 at 08:13 AM. Reason: corrected typo

05-08-2007, 08:06 AM	#5
JustSumGie Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks for the suggestions, the passage on oath taking is perfect for my thoughts on honor as being part of a generalized warrior code.

05-09-2007, 12:06 AM	#6
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	Check also the oath taking of Peregrin to Denethor in the chapter "Minas Tirith". Respectfully Findegil