Admin thread for Werewolf XXXII: The Lost Age

[Volo]

The crowd was getting tired, somebody had even left the hall. Several were trying to chat, but the terrible music was so loud that you couldn’t even hear your own thoughts. At one moment a fight nearly occurred, luckily it stopped before anything serious happened. People couldn’t understand why they were waiting in the first place.

Suddenly the music stopped and everybody was relieved, at last the anticipation ended. A young guy walked from the right side of the stage to the stand in the middle. The hall was filled with silence, except for a lone hamster clapping fanatically.

Volo puffed out his chest feeling overly proud of himself. After two ”artistic” and one sickly coughs he began his speech,

”Dear Wights! Dear Downers! Dear Friends! It is wonderful to see you all… nearly all, here! I am proud to present the thing I have been working on for a long time now, too long if you ask me. But I know I’m not the only one and I have to wait my turn. Anyway, it has been lots of fun, but also hard work. Sure I have had great help, but even together, it wasn’t an easy job. May I welcome my helper, Kath!”

Kath walked to the stand and bowed low. The crowd applauded like mad. Only the hamster sat quietly. Kath was really touched and Volo rather offended, but he didn’t show it.

”Yes, thank you Kath. Together we planned and wrote this Tol-in-Gaurhoth game. It’s basically the same as the earlier WW’s, but it has some new features. You can find more about it in the posts around the hall. Questions will be answered”.

The audience was getting interested, this felt promising. Somebody even started to clap and soon others joined in.

”Well, it’s no big deal. I do hope you like it”.

Volo and Kath left the stage and the anoying music turned back on.


Rules to follow (soon?).

[Volo]

The basic stuff:
No double-lynches.
No retractions.
Day/Night ends 15:00 (3 PM) GMT (I might not be able to post long story bits...)
The first Night starts at 15:00 GMT on the24th of April!

Votes are all hidden!
Vampires can't vote!
More on voting and the Lynch Seer system: here.

Please, don't change your Signiture, Avatar, location or any other BD information, if you can avoid it.

Random facts:

- All of deaths are shown in the morning (when the Night changes into Day)
- All of the dreams/protections/kills may contradict each other and a lynched person may be protected after he/she is dead. Meaning that the Gifteds, Vampires and the Shade can waste their powers on a person who is already dead.
- The Good Gifteds can't PM each other.
- The specific role of the Vampire won't be told to the Seer or the Shade.
- The specific role of the Vampire will be told at death.
- The game will start with a Night.


Roles during gameplay:

Villagers (hoping for 11): Innocents, who try to survive by lynching a person during day. Win by getting rid of the three Vampires.

Seer: PMs a name to the mod during the night. The mod then tells the role of the person ”dreamed of” to the Seer. Is on the side of the Villagers.

Ranger: Posts a name to the mod during the night of whom the Ranger wants to protect. The person the Ranger protects won’t die if a Vampire or the Shade tries to kill him/her. Can't protect the same person twice in a row, but can protect him/herself. Is on the side of the Villagers.

Hunter: May at any time at all post a name to the mod. If the Hunter dies, his/her current target dies as well, this is not a ”logical hunter”, so whoever the Hunter choses, dies. Is on the side of the Villagers.

All above are on the same team and win if the all of the Vampires are lynched. The "Good people" can vote, and that is their main way of killing. The strength of the Good people is quantity.

Vampire Seer: A Werewolf that can use the skills of a Seer, but gets to know the role in morning so that he/she won't be able to tell it to his/her fellow Vampires until the next Night begins.

Vampire Ranger: A Werewolf that can use the skills of a Ranger. Can save his/her fellow Vampires (or him/herself) from the Shade or the Hunter.

Vampire Hunter: A Werewolf that can use the skills of a Hunter. (A free kill on death.)

Vampires win if the total of non-Vampires (except the Shade) is equal to the number of Vampires. F.ex.: the Shade, the Seer, a Villager and two Vampires are alive: the Vampires and the Shade win. The Vampires can't vote. The Vampires can PM each other during Night and may kill one person once a Night by sending the name to the Mod.

Shade: To survive the Shade has the skills of the Ranger, Seer and Vampire, this means that the Shade can either protect (The Shade is an exeption in the Ranger category as it can't protect itself!), dream or kill during the night, but can’t do the same thing twice in a row. The Shade doesn’t care if the Vampires or the Villagers win, it wins too as long as it's alive in the end of the game. The Shade can vote. The Shade is the most important single role, use it wisely.

Every role may and should and has to discuss during the Day in the game thread about whom to vote for. Of course the Vampires must bluff, others may bluff as much as they want. Don't reveal your roles openly as that gives an advantage to your enemies.


Characters:

I’d like you to make yourselves a character. You don’t have to play in-character during the game but you can. The roles would help me in writing the stories.
So please fill this in and send me as a PM:

(All characters are human! This character profile is not compulsory, but is of help!)

"The characters. Human (not of Numenor). Middle of second age. Funny but not over the top. Think of making a "basic normal human". You may well give your character skills with wielding weapons or any other possible (or not possible, but then it will remain only in your character's head. F.ex. if your character has the skill that he/she can cast fireballs, he/she will try and believe doing that in need, but it won't help him/her too much...) skills, but you won't be able to carry anything but your clothes to the game."

Appearance:
Physical: what does your character look like? Clothes, face, thin, bulky...?

Mental: what is your character like mentally? Brave, kind, hates red shoes...?

Skills: what can your character do well/not well? Hobbies/profession/special skills?

Gender: m/f?

A short biography if you wish.


List of players:
Gil-Galad
The Saucepan Man
Rikae
Boromir88
Nogrod
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Thinlómien
Brinniel
Legate of Amon Lanc
Aganzir
Meneltarmacil
Xyzzy
Roa_Aoife
Macalaure
Diamond18
Shastanis Althreduin
Celuien
Kitanna
Sleepy Ranger
Durelin
Glirdan
Rune Son of Bjarne
The Sixth Wizard

Wow! So many, so quickly!

Oh, and the Vampires will be Aganzir, Thinlómien and Nogrod.

[Volo]

Haha!

Menel, you're in.

But may I ask you to send your character stuff in a PM...

[Kath]

Hello all! Just posting in here so I notice when people reply.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Volo

Oh, and the Vampires will be Aganzir, Thinlómien and Nogrod.

Cheers! Nice that you let us know our roles conveniently early so that we can make perfect our nassty plans!

Looks pretty interesting, but I do have some questions.

I can understand what a vampire-Seer does. S/he's pretty powerful one as s/he can try to spot the gifteds for the vampires. I can also see that a vampire-hunter would take away one innocent when lynched. Both of these roles seem to make the vampires have the upper hand pretty definitively. To this the fact can be added that there is no voting-record to help the villagers. So are you sure about the balance of this game?

And what will a vampire-ranger do? Defend a fellow vampire that was to be lynched? Okay, I can see a point in this as the innocents who do the voting don't exactly know who was in trouble and thence a save by the vampire-ranger doesn't reveal the saved vampire for sure. Or is s/he only for saving another vampire whom the shade meant to kill at Night? In both cases, more in the first, the vampires are made even stronger.

Looking at the list above makes me think that it was probably just fair that you told the names of the vampires beforehand...

Shade: To survive the Shade has the skills of the Ranger, Seer and Vampire, this means that the Shade can either protect, dream or kill during the night, but can’t do the same thing twice in a row. The Shade doesn’t care if the Vampires or the Villagers win.

So the shade is only interested in her/his own survival, right? And s/he wins if s/he stays alive when the game ends? So s/he needs the village to win. So s/he must care about who wins...

Is the shade then the "secret weapon" of the villagers "who will bring the balance"?

However, I still think the villagers look like being quite the underdogs here.

[Meneltarmacil]

Okay, I'm really wondering how the game is supposed to work. Won't the villagers all just vote for Aganzir, Nogrod, and Thinlomien since we already know that they're vampires?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So the shade is only interested in her/his own survival, right? And s/he wins if s/he stays alive when the game ends? So s/he needs the village to win. So s/he must care about who wins...

Well, I think the shadow wouldn't necessarily need to "join" the village, as far as I understand it, at the moment the wolves win, technically there are yet the same number of ordos alive - so if the shadow is one of them, he wins as well, doesn't he?

Well, from what I understand now the biggest problem would be that there'd be an effort from the villagers to kill the Were-Ranger first, because otherwise there'd be no chance of lynching... or so I understand that...

I think it's time, Volo, to somewhat help us in our confusion, if you could...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate

Well, I think the shadow wouldn't necessarily need to "join" the village, as far as I understand it, at the moment the wolves win, technically there are yet the same number of ordos alive - so if the shadow is one of them, he wins as well, doesn't he?

Ah, that might be possible.

Originally Posted by Volo in the rules

Vampires win if the total of non-Vampires (except the Shade) is equal to the number of Vampires.

So if there are equal numbers of villagers (the shade not included) and wolves left the wolves win but the shade somehow manages to not get sucked all the blood from her/him?

Originally Posted by Legate

Well, from what I understand now the biggest problem would be that there'd be an effort from the villagers to kill the Were-Ranger first, because otherwise there'd be no chance of lynching... or so I understand that...

I gave this a second thought and can't see that as a reasonable ruling. So it must be that the vampire-ranger is there to protect one of her/his fellows during the Nights from the shade only.

Maybe we'll have some light shed on these later.

[Gil-Galad]

sigh... i have to submit again...




I was the first to give my name on the board so i demand to be on the list and at the top of the list!

[xyzzy]

It sounds like the Shade is just a Serial Killer with a few extra powers: the win condition being, be the last person alive.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'mnot a fan of vampires, but this looks far too interesting to pass up. Besides, SPM, Boro, and Eomer are reappearing- I have to be involved! Sign me up, I'll PM the rest to you, Volo.

[The Saucepan Man]

Um, I may be missing something here, but, assuming that the villagers are allowed to discuss who to vote for, can't they simply agree to lynch the three Vampires on the first three Days, leaving it as a struggle between the villagers and the Shade? Even if the Vampire Ranger and/or the Vampire Hunter make some lucky picks, the odds look stacked against the Vampires to me (especially as the Seer will be able to ascertain the Vampire Gifted roles within three Nights).

And it doesn't look like it will be much fun for the three known Werewolves, whose only challenge will be in exercising their "Gifted" roles. They don't even get to vote.

Or am I being incredibly stoopid and missing something obvious?

Volo, please keep me as a question-mark for now. I still need to work out whether I will have sufficient time for the game (which depends, to a degree, on the answers to the various rule questions which have been raised).

[Roa_Aoife]

Uh, guys, I'm pretty sure Volo was joking about the Vampires....

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Roa

Uh, guys, I'm pretty sure Volo was joking about the Vampires....

That's what I thought too...he's gotta be joking... Or is he?

Does this mean I'm going to have to move to Finland if I want to be come a Vampire too?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

However, I still think the villagers look like being quite the underdogs here.

I kind of have to agree with Noggie on this one. While I do like the idea of gifted baddies and hidden votes, combining both in one game may put the innocents at a great disadvantage.

I don't know...but perhaps we all just need some further explanations...

Also, 16:00 GMT - that's 4pm GMT, right? Sorry, I just get easily confused by these things...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Roa

Uh, guys, I'm pretty sure Volo was joking about the Vampires....

Hmm, that may be the obvious thing that I missed ...

But ... it didn't look like a joke to me (or am I just too dependent upon smilies).

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I thought that there might be some fiendish explanation that would make sense of revealing the Vampires at the outset. Such as them being able to make new Vampires, although that would still leave the original Vampires without much of a challenge.

EDIT: If it was a joke, I rather agree with Nogrod that the Vampires would appear to have a loaded hand here.

[Thinlómien]

It was most definitely a joke from Volo's part, since Volo knows me, Aganzir and Noggie from/in RL and has been joking about making us the three wolves for a long while. (Obvioulsy it'd be quite funny from my perspective if the wolves were me, my father and one of my best friends...) So don't worry about that, dear fellow players.

[Macalaure]

Sign me in, please.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I can understand what a vampire-Seer does. S/he's pretty powerful one as s/he can try to spot the gifteds for the vampires. I can also see that a vampire-hunter would take away one innocent when lynched. Both of these roles seem to make the vampires have the upper hand pretty definitively. To this the fact can be added that there is no voting-record to help the villagers. So are you sure about the balance of this game?

And what will a vampire-ranger do? Defend a fellow vampire that was to be lynched? Okay, I can see a point in this as the innocents who do the voting don't exactly know who was in trouble and thence a save by the vampire-ranger doesn't reveal the saved vampire for sure. Or is s/he only for saving another vampire whom the shade meant to kill at Night? In both cases, more in the first, the vampires are made even stronger.

Yes, the V(ampire)Seer is to find the Gifteds/Shade and the VHunter has a free kill at death.

The VRanger can save from the Shade and the Hunter, but not from the Lynch or the Lynch Kill (I'll explain).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So the shade is only interested in her/his own survival, right? And s/he wins if s/he stays alive when the game ends? So s/he needs the village to win. So s/he must care about who wins...

Originally Posted by Legate

Well, I think the shadow wouldn't necessarily need to "join" the village, as far as I understand it, at the moment the wolves win, technically there are yet the same number of ordos alive - so if the shadow is one of them, he wins as well, doesn't he?

The Shade is on its own. Of course it can make deals with the Village or Vampires in the game thread, and betray if it wants.
It's the most important role in the whole game as it can change a lot, so use it wisely.

The only thing the Shade has to do is survive. It wins if either the Villagers or the Vampires win, as long as the Shade is alive. The Vampires don't have any reason to kill the Shade, except for their own safety, as the Shade can kill them. The Shade may also vote, unlike the Vampires.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Is the shade then the "secret weapon" of the villagers "who will bring the balance"?

If the Shade wishes to help the Village.

Originally Posted by Legate

Well, from what I understand now the biggest problem would be that there'd be an effort from the villagers to kill the Were-Ranger first, because otherwise there'd be no chance of lynching... or so I understand that...

Nah, the VRanger can't save from Lynches.

Originally Posted by SPM

Um, I may be missing something here, but, assuming that the villagers are allowed to discuss who to vote for?

Sure!

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Also, 16:00 GMT - that's 4pm GMT, right? Sorry, I just get easily confused by these things...

Yes.

Originally Posted by Volo

Oh, and the Vampires will be Aganzir, Thinlómien and Nogrod.

Originally Posted by Lommy

It was most definitely a joke from Volo's part, since Volo knows me, Aganzir and Noggie from/in RL and has been joking about making us the three wolves for a long while. (Obvioulsy it'd be quite funny from my perspective if the wolves were me, my father and one of my best friends...) So don't worry about that, dear fellow players.

In fact they should worry. You, Nogrod and Aganzir are the only ones that don't. It's a joke, sorry (not really... ) for confusing you... I'll shuffle all the roles. Or so I think.

Welcome, Roa, Gil and Mac! and Xyzzy, who PMd me.

[Volo]

The Vampires can't vote.

The voting happens in secret ie. by E-Mail! Send your votes (and everything to do with gifts) to wwthelostage@gmail.com More about this here.

This will be both good and bad to the Village:
All the votes will be honest, as there will be no Vampires to vote.
The Vampires might have to lie in the thread about their votes.
You can't be for sure.


And then the new feature that will make you have to trust and not only distrust.
The Lynch Seer:

The following happens during the Night:
The mod sends the name of the lynched person in a riddle to a random person. This random person is called the lynch-seer. There is a different lynch-seer everyDay. The lynch-seer may or may not reveal the riddle of the person to-be-lynched in the thread after the voting has been closed ie. after the deadline. The post should not contain anything else than the riddle. If the lynch-seer does so, the person whose riddle is told may tell the mod a name by posting it in the thread and that person will die along the to-be-lynched person. A bit like hunter, works on trust, may work once or twice.

F.ex.
Boromir88 is to be lynched.
Anguirel is the ”lynch seer”.
Nogrod is the person Boromir88 wants to kill.

Boromir88 got 18 votes and will be lynched, he himself doesn’t know that yet.

The mod picks Anguirel at random and sends him a private message with a ”Which Downer Am I?”-style riddle (the answer being Boromir88) (f.ex. ”The evil bird”, because of Boromir88 being a ”Fenris Penguin”) and the number of votes for that person.

Anguirel tries to guess who the player in the riddle is. He thinks that it’s Lommy, whom he trusts. So he thinks he will give her a license to kill and posts the riddle in the game thread (note: he doesn’t have to do so, if he doesn’t trust the person he thinks is to be lynched. He is not allowed to post anything except the riddle).

Boromir88 sees the riddle in the thread and seeing it's his riddle (you will be told the riddle about you before the game starts), he can now post the name of the person he'd like to kill in the thread. Boromir88 writes ”Nogrod”, because he wants to kill Nogrod (Boromir88 can be of any role to do so.).

In the end of the night both Boromir88 and Nogrod die. Also all the nightly victims die.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Volo

In the end of the night both Boromir88 and Nogrod die. Also all the nightly victims die.

Did I understand correctly? The person to be lynched dies at the end of the night, at the same time with Vampire and Shade victims? What if the Vampires or the Shade choose to kill someone who is "already dead"; eg. the Vampires want to kill Boromir, not knowing he'll be lynched?

I suppose I have missed something.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Did I understand correctly? The person to be lynched dies at the end of the night, at the same time with Vampire and Shade victims? What if the Vampires or the Shade choose to kill someone who is "already dead"; eg. the Vampires want to kill Boromir, not knowing he'll be lynched?

I suppose I have missed something.

Hmm... Didn't think about this... If we want to make the Varmpires' game harder, we could leave this like it is. Otherwise, the Vampires should post several kill candidates.

F.ex.

Originally Posted by Vampire's post to the mod

1. Gil-Galad
2. Oddwen
3. Durelin

If Gil-Galad is lynched/lynch killed, Oddwen dies too.
If Gil-Galad and Oddwen are both lynched/lynch killed, Durelin dies too.

So, what do you think?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

There could be 4 deaths in one night?

Count me in the game, by the way; even though this is slightly more confusing than I was prepared for!

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

There could be 4 deaths in one night?

In fact there can be 6 deaths in one night, if both the Hunter and the VHunter succeed... But let's hope that such things don't happen.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

My initial reaction is scepticism (though don't think I'm not intrigued by these new ideas ). It's perfectly feasible, even perhaps likely, in that case, for the game to be over in 2 days. There's a high chance it will be a swift and utter bloodbath.

[Boromir88]

I'm a bit skeptical too...I'm still undecided about the PMing of our votes (eventhough if this way the Vamps don't get to vote to muddle things up)...secretive votes seems to be cutting off one of the ordinary villager's greatest advantages to the game and putting a lot of focus on the reliability of the gifteds. If the gifteds get whacked early, I think this will be a bloodbath (in the vamps' favor) as Eomer has so dubbed.

Though I like challenges and I think this one will be even more challenging than Nogrod's game without the seer!

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Though I like challenges and I think this one will be even more challenging than Nogrod's game without the seer!

This is the reason I want many players. If that is the case is somebody NOT willing to send their votes by e-mail?

We'll never know whether this works if we don't try. A lot will depend on the Shade and all the anti-Vampire things we decide to put into the game, this being one of them.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Volo

I suppose I have missed something.
Hmm... Didn't think about this... If we want to make the Varmpires' game harder, we could leave this like it is. Otherwise, the Vampires should post several kill candidates.

I kind of like the idea of leaving it how it is. This way the Vampires won't be at a total advantage, and there won't be a complete bloodbath.

[Boromir88]

You're right, it doesn't hurt to try something new...and we won't know until we give something a try.

I'm ok with sending in secret votes (and I think the vamps inability to vote balances that out). I just wanted to raise a concern that votes are the biggest advantage (no matter how 'circumstantial' and 'biased' they might be) to ordinary villagers. Wolves (or vamps if you prefer) can hide behind their words, but not their votes too well. Perhaps I've always been dilusional and it's simply been blind luck, but with no 'gifted' knowledge the villagers use votes and discussion to help them make their decision. And essentially what's being done is part of the ordinary's advantage (as slight or little as it might be...as I think most of it is just luck) is being taken away. Therefor, there is definitely added pressure on the gifteds to stay alive and figure out information, because if they go I doubt the innocents will have any chance.

Anyway, that was my concern that I just wanted to bring out...and we won't know how things work until we try it. So, I say go for it, who knows I could be completely wrong and the vamps inability to vote might prove to be a bigger asset to the village than making everyone's vote public.

[Nogrod]

Quite interesting things you have come up with Volo (and Kath, if I understood the first briefing correctly)!

I'm all in for a try-out of this.

But I would also still like to make a few comments.

Maybe we should still think about the number of kills possible during the Night. I know not all the chances to kill someone will play out every Night. It will be most unlikely that happens indeed. But, with these rules we will get something like 2-3 kills turning out to be the norm / Night. (the vampires kill one anyhow - at least they try to, the shade can kill every other Night If I got it right, the probability of the one being lynched to wish to kill someone else as well / someone trusting that person the licence for it might be something like 50-50 and we have two hunters with a foolproof-kill as well). If we add to that the lynching of one every Day we get the total of 3-4 kills / Day-Night cycle on average, meaning that in a village of 14-15 players the wolves might indeed win in two Days without any extraordinary luck...

I also do agree with a few here and think we should not give the vampires a chance to give a list of Nightly kills and thence end up in a double kill during the Night if they try to kill someone who is lynched. That to me seems the least we can do on the basis of rules to balance this a bit.

Otherwise the new roles (the shade, the lynch-seer) look really promising! Although, if we're concerned about the number of kills, should we leave the option open that the one who is going to be lynched and whose riddle someone makes public might decline the kill if s/he thinks s/he's not cabable of making a judgement?

[xyzzy]

Well, that's really confusing. I'm sure I'll get it when it actually happens.

Couldn't we simply publically discuss votes and privately vote? That seems to fit into the rules, without taking away any advantage.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by xyzzy

Couldn't we simply publically discuss votes and privately vote? That seems to fit into the rules, without taking away any advantage.

Yes we can and / but yes it also seems to take out some normal advantages from the villagers... Normally you know for a fact who voted for whom and in what situation. These are about the only solid facts there are in these games. These are now lost as anyone can claim to have voted in whatever way one wishes. But only the game itself will tell whether there will actually be some advantages the villagers may gain in replacement... Understandably talking about these should be left into the game itself.

So I'm pretty ready to give this a try.

[Diamond18]

The Internet Faeries have blessed me with access at home after a long drought, so I'll play. Beats wasting time at YouTube anyway. I don't have time at the moment to fill out the character stuff but I'll PM it to you later.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

The Internet Faeries have blessed me with access at home after a long drought, so I'll play. Beats wasting time at YouTube anyway.

So good to see you for a long time Di!

[Roa_Aoife]

You guys are looking at this "nightly kill" thing the wrong way. In a normal game, we'd have the lynch, then the nightly kill. In this game, they just happen at the same time. It''s only one more death a night. And who among us has not wished we could take someone with us when we get lynched? We're already taking away the knowledge that the lynch brings. Even with the ability for them to make the kill (which they might not, if the ranger succeeds) the wolves can still foul up on who they kill. And remember, the lynchee who gets a kill could take out one of the wolves, as well.

That said, the Ranger, Hunter, and Seer should be able to send in lists as well. In all fairness, they wouldn't protect/hunt/dream of, someone they just lynched. That just wouldn't make sense.

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, given the special abilities of the Vampires, I think it only fair that all the gifted be allowed to converse, if only during the Day.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Concerning the daily conversation, I think although the village wouldn't know who voted for whom, there could still be hints in the daily conversation, even bandwaggons created, even started by the vampires - not that it would be known if they really succeeded until the lynch shows.

One thing about swaying the votes - the Vampires cannot, but the Shade is still able to vote, or not?

I like the ideas Volo(&Kath) brought to the game. And if someone is still skeptical - oh c'mon, it's a prototype. We have to give it a try. I think especially that riddle part can be really funny.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

One thing about swaying the votes - the Vampires cannot, but the Shade is still able to vote, or not?

This is still open to changes. The Shade, being neutral, should and should not have the right to vote. I think it should, because otherwise it has a rather small effect. But then again if it can vote, it might have a great effect. The Shade is pretty much a flip of the coin, it might help the already winning side or balance the game, so whoever the Shade is, use it wisely.

Originally Posted by Roa

Also, given the special abilities of the Vampires, I think it only fair that all the gifted be allowed to converse, if only during the Day.

You mean PM?

And I think I'll drop the kill lists off, it will make the game unrealistic*, but otherwise it would be even more complicated to play and mod. Or would the lists for every gifted be fair, or only for the good gifted?

Storywise the lynching happens in the beginning of the night.

[Volo]

Welcome to the slaughter, Isabellkya and Diamond18!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I would drop the lists too. Have scope for numerous kills but include with it scope for numerous saves.

This will certainly be entertaining!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I would drop the lists too. Have scope for numerous kills but include with it scope for numerous saves.

I agree. The funniest situation in this game would probably be: "...so the villagers awoke, and realized no one died at night." - "Huh? What?"