Werewolf XXXI: The Unknown Enemies

[Meneltarmacil]

Far to the east of the known world lies a great mountain range. In these mountains, a village may be found in one of the numerous valleys. It is a small village, as villages go, and generally a peaceful place.

However, that all changed when they arrived. People, they say, who took the form of villagers by day, while transforming into savage, bloodthirsty wolves by night. Every morning, the villagers could generally count on waking up to death.

Did the villagers ever stop these vicious beasts? That remains to be seen...

Welcome to the latest in Werewolf. Not a lot of explaining to do on the part of roles, except as follows:

No entirely new roles have been invented. There may be a few variations on old ones, though.

The villagers post by Day, and vote for whomever should be lynched. Whoever has the most votes will be killed off at the end of each Day. Votes should be posted like this:

++Nilpaurion Felagund

No retractable votes or multiple lynchings in this game. If there is a tie for most votes, I'll randomly determine the single lynchee by rolling a 20-sided die.

The game ends when the number of wolves equals the numbers of the villagers and overwhelm them. If Lovers exist, they have to be the only ones remaining at the end of the game to win. In the case of a Werebear, he/she wins if the Bear and one villager are left alive at the end. If it's a Bear and the wolves, the wolves win. For a Bear and one Wolf, the outcome is random. I hope I've made that clear.

The Day/Night transition will take place at 5:00 PM Eastern time. I was about an hour and 45 minutes late here, mostly due to connection issues.

Alive:

Brinniel (Clumsy blacksmith)
Gil-Galad (Wild Bandito)
Glirdan (Gibbering local hermit who suffers from insomnia)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Uruk chieftan in retirement)
Macalaure (Ninja Wizard)
Mithalwen (Potter)
Meneltarmacil (Time traveler from the future)
Nogrod (Well-known nincompoop-miller who always thinks he's right)
Rikae (Anachronistic motion capture actor)
Roa_Aoife (Innkeeper)
the guy who be short (Baker)
The Sixth Wizard (Magician who is Lousy and Rubbish)
Thinlómien (Goat farmer)
xyzzy (Traveling Merchant)

Night 1 has started.

[Meneltarmacil]

(Note: Please activate Invisible Mode if you have not already done so.)

The villagers awoke as the day dawned.

Glirdan, gibbered to himself as he tried to go to sleep by counting Thinlomien's goats (there weren't any sheep around, so this was the best he could do).

The guy who be short tried to find out why Nogrod hadn't processed enough grain for his bakery, but wound up getting insults instead.

Xyzzy was not making a lot of progress in his attempts to sell his wares to Legate of Amon Lanc, who kept demanding disgusting things like "man flesh." To add insult to injury, Gil-Galad swiped some of the merchant's goods behind his back.
Meanwhile, Brinniel tried to make a set of bread knives for the baker, but wound up hitting her fingers with the hammer instead.

A wizards' duel had broken out in the street. The Sixth Wizard tried to shield himself against Macalaure's martial arts attacks, but only managed to turn his own wand into a chicken dinner.

Rikae was rather confused by all this, wondering where the studio was.

As Mithalwen worked on another pot, she suddenly heard a scream, as did the others. They ran to the source of the cry, and found Roa_Aoife up at Meneltarmacil's house. They shuddered when they saw it.

Underneath the stuffed head of the Tyrannosaurus rex which the Time Traveler had killed using a high-frequency laser rifle from the year 2378, in front of the fireplace, Meneltarmacil, or rather, what was left of him, lay. Several dirty paw prints could be seen around the area.

"Werewolves," Legate of Amon Lanc said. "They must have devoured him during the night."

"We'd better prepare for the worst," Macalaure added. "This village is in trouble."

Alive:
Brinniel
Gil-Galad
Glirdan
Legate of Amon Lanc
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Rikae
Roa_Aoife
the guy who be short
The Sixth Wizard
Thinlómien
xyzzy

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by wolves on Night 1

Thus begins Day 1. You may commence posting.

[Glirdan]

What ho? Menel's dead?? So THAT was the sound I heard last night.....stupid insomnia keeping me up all night......

Hey, where'd those goats go? I need sleep.....Maybe I should go get a pound of knives from that crazy Brinniel person.....Or get those wizard type people to perform acrobatic feats for my amusement....yes....

Wait...What? Where am I? Did you hear all that?? Stupid gibbering inducing insomnia.....I think I said that wrong.....Let's try it again. Stupid nductin ib bering somniain.....I need sleep...... I'm gonna go count the petals on that tree if you need me.....

[Rikae]

Wait - we've started already? Sorry...hang on *struggles with lycra suit* *hops on one foot* *collapses in a heap*.

There are thirteen of us; one is a CGI character who does everything I do. All I have to do is find out who it is, and I'll have a known innocent...

*runs around on all fours, barking like a dog*

ooops, maybe not the best choice...

*imitates a cat coughing up a hairball*

...nothing...

oh well, it was worth a try.

[Gil-Galad]

oy... this no good at all man...

this bad time, panic is a big no-no


Quero Menel...

[Roa_Aoife]

*sigh* I was afraid of this. If I ever mod a game of werewolf, there will be no occupations, etc.

We have 13 people, so I highly doubt that Menel put more than 3 wolves into the mix. On the other hand, that doesn't exclude a wearbear or a cobbler. Personally, the issue means nothing to me, as we'll know soon enough if there is a werebear (by the number of kills ToNight) and a cobbler, while dangerous, is not a pressing matter until later in the game. Lovers can be as much of a danger to the wolves as us, so that can be left until later as well.

We don't know if we have a seer, hunter, or ranger, or what rules have been applied to them if they are in the game (do they know each other, can they communicate with each other, etc.) We must be extremely wary of people who come out as gifteds at any point in the game, because without knowing what we have, it would be easy for a wolf to use that as a cover. So, even if a gifted proclamation goes uncontested, it's posible that the role isn't even in the game. Gifteds, if there are any, will need proof greater than a lack of contest if they plan on revealing. Fortunately, this could be an even greater risk for the wolves, seeing as they don't know if they will be contested or not.

We could also have a mythomaniac, cursed, or birthday dreamer. The mythomaniac and the birthday dreamer could be good as easily as they could be evil, so we should let that issue be. We don't know if we have a ranger though, so if we go a night with out a kill, we cannot assume that a person was protected.

So, with that out of the way, we can stop worrying about roles which might not even be here, and just focus on catching wolves. We have no way of knowing what's out there until we lynch them or the wolves (and whatever else) kill them. (And if I've left out a role, I apologize, but I've probably never encountered it before.)

A wizards' duel had broken out in the street.

I didn't know Gurthang was in this game.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

*sigh* I was afraid of this. If I ever mod a game of werewolf, there will be no occupations, etc.

More's the pity.

We must be extremely wary of people who come out as gifteds at any point in the game, because without knowing what we have, it would be easy for a wolf to use that as a cover. So, even if a gifted proclamation goes uncontested, it's posible that the role isn't even in the game. Gifteds, if there are any, will need proof greater than a lack of contest if they plan on revealing. Fortunately, this could be an even greater risk for the wolves, seeing as they don't know if they will be contested or not.

This doesn't sit right with me. The fact is, a hunter, a ranger or a seer who's only dreamed of innocents won't have any such proof to offer, as I'm sure you know: I'd still prefer they come forward rather than be lynched! I'm not sure I like the way Roa advocates mistrust toward revealed gifteds with one breath, and points out that claiming giftedness would be a risky strategy for wolves with the next.

We could also have a mythomaniac, cursed, or birthday dreamer.

I've never heard of a birthday dreamer. What is it?

[Glirdan]

Rikae
This doesn't sit right with me. The fact is, a hunter, a ranger or a seer who's only dreamed of innocents won't have any such proof to offer, as I'm sure you know: I'd still prefer they come forward rather than be lynched! I'm not sure I like the way Roa advocates mistrust toward revealed gifteds with one breath, and points out that claiming giftedness would be a risky strategy for wolves with the next.

I'd have to agree with the actor person there, Rikae. There's something about that there....uhhh....let me check my hand for her name....uh....Brinnel..no....Mith...noooooo.....Gil...nuhuh.....Glirdan....THAT'S ME! What am I going to have for breakfast??? OOO!! Butterfly....pretty.....

What?? OH!! Right....about Roa!! Ya, that's the one. There's something bout that one there that doesn't sit right at all. No it doesn't. Too inconsistent with her....her idea's? No...her thoughts!! Ya....I want sleep.....

I agree that at this point it would be risky for them there Gifteds to proclaim themsleves. But who in their right mind would do that at this point unless they were on the verge of being lynched? So why even bring up the idea that the Gifteds should remain hidden when we all know that they will and they already have that set in their minds? It's....ummm....confusing....and....umm....unnervi ng what she said. Ya, that's what it is....Look at that flower!! It's pretty.....

Rikae
I've never heard of a birthday dreamer. What is it?

Birthday what? Dreamer what?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Rikae

This doesn't sit right with me. The fact is, a hunter, a ranger or a seer who's only dreamed of innocents won't have any such proof to offer, as I'm sure you know: I'd still prefer they come forward rather than be lynched! I'm not sure I like the way Roa advocates mistrust toward revealed gifteds with one breath, and points out that claiming giftedness would be a risky strategy for wolves with the next.

Normally, when someone comes out as a gifted, we don't know if they're telling the truth or not, and all we have is that no one else is saying "No, they're lying- it's really me!" In this game, we don't know if we even have gifted, let alone being able to tell if a "revealed gifted" is lying or not. Remember- we don't have retractable votes this game. There won't be a last minute turn around or sudden random bandwagon. At least, such an occurance is highly unlikely. If someone is feeling pressure, gifted or wolf alike, they would have to do something well before the last minute. A gifted being suspected may choose to not risk waiting it out. At the same time, a wolf may do the same, banking on the fact that the pretended role may not even really exist. Yes, it would be risky for them to do so, but far less risky, since we don't know what we have and what we don't. The wolves may be planning on using that to their advantage, and I wanted to make sure that everyone was aware of it and on the look out.

Gifteds, if they are in this game, will just have to be more clever than that.

I've never heard of a birthday dreamer. What is it?

In my understanding, a birthday dreamer gets one dream on a pre-ordained Night phase. As to whether they become the role of the person they dream of, or merely learn the identity of the person, I'm not clear on.

Glirdan, you jumped on Rikae's single point and appear to be trying to turn this into something much greater.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

What?? OH!! Right....about Roa!! Ya, that's the one. There's something bout that one there that doesn't sit right at all. No it doesn't. Too inconsistent with her....her idea's? No...her thoughts!! Ya....I want sleep.....

Inconsistent? How?

I agree that at this point it would be risky for them there Gifteds to proclaim themsleves. But who in their right mind would do that at this point unless they were on the verge of being lynched? So why even bring up the idea that the Gifteds should remain hidden when we all know that they will and they already have that set in their minds? It's....ummm....confusing....and....umm....unnervi ng what she said. Ya, that's what it is....Look at that flower!! It's pretty.....

I think you've misunderstood me entirely, or else you are intentionally misrepresenting my post. I said we shouldn't immediately believe someone who claims to be a hunter, for example, especially when we don't even know if there is a hunter. And as I pointed out to Rikae, there are no retractable votes this game. A gifted could not afford to wait until the last minute, and niether could a wolf if they wanted to use that strategy. I did not say "Gifteds should definitely not reveal," I said "Villagers should be aware that the wolves will find it a great deal easier to pose as gifteds in this village." (Paraphrased.)

Glirdan, role playing is all well and fun, but I'm bothered when people use it to cover accusations or make them look less serious, and that's what your post looks like to me. That combined with the way you jumped on Rikae's point is making you look very suspicious indeed.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Curse Macalaure and his pointy stars! I was just about to turn him into a toad, I'm sure of it!

Do you think the mystery surrounding this game will help the wolves in the long run? Reading all this, perhaps they will go for some drastic reverse-psychology as well. Do the complete opposite of what you just said! Wow, Werewolf is more confusing than I thought!

Must retire to ponder these thoughts. . .
(The Sixth Wizard pulls out a crystal ball, which promptly falls apart, and he grumbles and sticks more stickytape on the top)

Glirdan, role playing is all well and fun, but I'm bothered when people use it to cover accusations or make them look less serious, and that's what your post looks like to me. That combined with the way you jumped on Rikae's point is making you look very suspicious indeed.

I can assure you I'm not doing such a thing to confuse you, unlike Glirdan, who may well be a bad guy.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by The Sixth Wizard

Wow, Werewolf is more confusing than I thought!

You have no idea.......

I can assure you I'm not doing such a thing to confuse you, unlike Glirdan, who may well be a bad guy.

I understand the fun of it, and I've indulged myself from time to time. It's when people thread accusations with such in-character posting that my suspicions are piqued.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm off to bed. I'll be on again to vote in about 9-10 hours, before I leave for work. Hopefully people will be more active by then. Come on people, a village needs noise!

Right now, Glirdan looks the most suspicious to me, but seeing as almost 2/3 of the village haven't even shown up yet, that's not saying much.

[Brinniel]

Well, I'm sorry I didn't post immediately, but as you must realize, it can be rather difficult to type with bruised fingers. Ow... *rubs her swollen fingers*

Anyways, Day One seems to be the most difficult of days to make judgements. I can't really find anyone suspicious right now, especially when I haven't heard from very many yet. Hopefully, when I return tomorrow there will be plenty of new posts.

This whole mysterious roles thing could be...err...rather interesting. I'm certainly hoping Sixth Wizard is wrong and it won't become an advantage to the wolves in the long run. Hmm...I'm actually not sure whose advantage this will be to, if anyone at all. We'll just have to see how it plays out. But as Roa stated earlier, it is probably best we don't worry about all these mystery roles and focus lynching a wolf toDay. With that said, let us get started and begin posting people!

I can't wait up any longer and most definitely need my rest. If all goes well, this thread should at least be on page 2 by the time I return. Until later...

*attempts to get up out of chair, but somehow manages to trip over it. Brinn then falls in the most ungraceful manner taking the chair down with her*

*gets up, again ungracefully, and places chair upright*

Don't worry about me...I'm okay...

[The Sixth Wizard]

Well people, it's 6:30pm for me over here in Melbourne, and I really can't stay on the computer for much longer. If no-one has posted by my 7:00pm I'm afraid I shall have to vote anyway, as I don't really hold with the notion of getting up at 7:00am on my school holidays.

[Thinlómien]

I'm here and unfortunately must leave within an hour. (See admin thread.) Damn the lack of net access. Fortunately I will be able to post more in the Days to come (if I'm still alive).

~*~

I don't understand this attack against Roa. I think she speaks sense and I don't find myself suspecting her... (See Roa? Someone's inclined to trust you this early... bad for your fame... )

Rikae? She seems pretty innocent too. To me it seems she just misunderstood Roa.

Glirdan then... he's the one to turn heads this morning... and for a reason. His jump to support Rikae's feeble-ish accusations so early is like an example from the classic Spot-a-Wolf -book. He seems suspicious to me, yet I wonder if a wolf'd be this... obvious. Anyway, there's nothing out of his character, but if I recall correctly, this has been the case with all glirdanes whether innocent or guilty. So the point of this ramble? He is suspicious, but I'm not sure if he's guilty. I don't like making very hasty decisions. However, if further rereads bring nothing new or nothing that wakes my suspicions happens while I'm still around, I'll be voting him.

Brinn? Sixth? Gil? No idea, you can't tell much from their posts.

The others? Even less idea about them silent ones.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Roa

We have 13 people, so I highly doubt that Menel put more than 3 wolves into the mix. On the other hand, that doesn't exclude a wearbear or a cobbler.

I doubt we have a werebear. Remember this would mean two kills per night! We wouldn't stand a chance...

And that's as much as I am going to speculate about what roles we have and what roles we don't. I highly doubt such speculation will get us anywhere. They will only distract us from looking for wolves. Beware of those who try to discreetly encourage such discussions without taking active parts in them!


Well, it's still early in the game and there is little to be said concerning wolves. The only one who raises one of my eyebrows is Glirdan. His claim that Roa is inconsistent looks a bit bad. The way he mainly takes up and simplifies Rikae's point gives the impression of a wolf trying to launch a 'suspicion bandwaggon', hoping others will join it while the wolves watch idly and unnoticed.

Nothing more to say at the moment.

[Thinlómien]

Yes, Glirdan seems quite taking Rikae's point - which was not an accusation in my opinion - and turning it to an accusation while trying to make it seem that Rikae's with him there... Looks quite bad...

And Mac and Roa seem to be taking the "don't do like I do, do as I say"-attitude to discussing the roles... However I agree with them we shouldn't speculate them too much. Maybe tomorrow, or later, but not now when we have no evidence (eg. what happens during the night, no "proper" narrations...).

[Thinlómien]

++GLIRDAN

He looks quite bad.
(Though possibly he looks too bad to be a real baddie. )

I must say that the evidence against him is in a way quite feeble (at this phase of the day) - I would love to hear Glirdy explaining his actions or responding to the accusations against him in some way, for one, and it's never wise to judge on the basis of only a few posts - but I'm going to vote him because he simply seems clearly the most suspicious of those who have posted this far.
I hope I'll have more to go on with my future votes.

It's a bye-bye from me for toDay...

[The Sixth Wizard]

Well, a few people at least think that Glirdan is a Werewolf, perhaps this means a cobbler is not involved here? And I tend to agree that he is suspicious. I need to get off the computer now, so...

++Glirdan .

Sorry mate if you are innocent, whereas if you are guilty ...

DEATH TO YOU!

[Glirdan]

Okay, roleplaying over for me for now.

Roa
I think you've misunderstood me entirely, or else you are intentionally misrepresenting my post. I said we shouldn't immediately believe someone who claims to be a hunter, for example, especially when we don't even know if there is a hunter. And as I pointed out to Rikae, there are no retractable votes this game. A gifted could not afford to wait until the last minute, and niether could a wolf if they wanted to use that strategy. I did not say "Gifteds should definitely not reveal," I said "Villagers should be aware that the wolves will find it a great deal easier to pose as gifteds in this village." (Paraphrased.)

And now I am clear. I was actually a litte befuddled by what you had posted which made me leery(sp?) of you. Sorry for jumping down your throat.

Now I am quite disturbed by Sixth's and Lommy's votes for me.

Lommy
I must say that the evidence against him is in a way quite feeble (at this phase of the day) - I would love to hear Glirdy explaining his actions or responding to the accusations against him in some way, for one, and it's never wise to judge on the basis of only a few posts - but I'm going to vote him because he simply seems clearly the most suspicious of those who have posted this far.
I hope I'll have more to go on with my future votes.

She first votes for me. Then she goes on to say that the evidence is feeble ad that she would like to hear my response but is votingon my because I'm the most suspicious when almost 1/3 of the players have not voted yet. Now, I take into account her time zone problem as that is why I myself have to vote now.

However, I'm not as disturbed by her vote as I am by Sixth's.

Sixth
Well, a few people at least think that Glirdan is a Werewolf, perhaps this means a cobbler is not involved here? And I tend to agree that he is suspicious.

Voting for me on the pure fact that a few people are suspicious of me and that he agrees I'm suspicious. Alright and dandy. But no explanation as to why I'm suspicious? That worries me. Sure it's a Day1, but if you yourself are suspicious of someone, at least explain what you're suspicious of and not just say "Oh everyone else is suspicious and so am I." To me, that looks bad.

And because of that (and because I have school in an hour till after closing time ) I shall cast my vote for

++Sixth

Now I shall go and count those leave above my shed to help me fall asleep.

[the guy who be short]

Hello village.

I am suspicious of Thinlomien for a number of factors. Observe-ye:

1. I don't understand this attack against Roa. I think she speaks sense and I don't find myself suspecting her.

   I disagree. Talking about gifteds and all that this early is in no way helpful. They can also work things out for themselves. That Roa-post looks like it was trying to be helpful, but wasn't saying much that was helpful to the village.
2. Her accusations and vote for Glirdan. Seems to be on very shoddy evidence to me.

3. I agree with them we shouldn't speculate them too much [about roles]

   Isn't that what Roa, who she defends, was doing?
4. Tradition!

I am also uneasy about Roa, as I said above, and The Sixth Wizard, for jumping onto the attack on Glirdan.

EDIT: Hmmm. Cool indents.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

*sigh* I was afraid of this. If I ever mod a game of werewolf, there will be no occupations, etc.

Personally, the issue means nothing to me, as we'll know soon enough if there is a werebear (by the number of kills ToNight) and a cobbler, while dangerous, is not a pressing matter until later in the game. .

While I agree with much of what you said three little points :

1,Go on! Mod sometime, you'll love it ...

2, Because we don't know about rangers, a single kill tonight wouln't absolutely exclude a werebear.

3, I wish my last village had relised that about cobblers

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hai! Hay! Yoi! Hai hola! Whazzup down here, youngsters? Dis body didn't yet start to rot, and ya'll already accusing and voting! Uh, it's noon already... okay, I understand. Go check yer goats, Lommy. Go check your stuff, staff, Sixey, you lubber. We understand you have much to do.

Meanwhile! As some of you rats pointed here earlier, we cannot think we could do something clever today. Tis the first day, and unless these Howlers are totally stupid and make some mistake, then we can't hope in much evidence. So any souffy- err... soup- err...soup-his-thick-a-teeth... what? Oh, sophisticated, thank you very much - debates are of no use now. We have to wait for other days. The best we can do is to hope we'll be lucky enough today to pick a stupid Wolf, or that we are lucky enough to pick a random guy and look, he's a wolf! Well, I don't believe in miracles. "Early shots go mostly off," I always said to these little snufflers, but d'ya think they listen?
But that's not that we should sneeze at this. I know, the evidence is too feeble, feeble. The evidence is always feeble at this point! But this doesn't mean to cast chaotic or blind suspicions or to jump a bandwaggon for no reason. It's better to think for yourself. Let's look at what caught my eye, or ear, in this little debate.

Originally Posted by The Sixth Wizard

I can assure you I'm not doing such a thing to confuse you, unlike Glirdan, who may well be a bad guy.

Hay, and what's that? Man, no one accused ya of anythin' an' you say THAT? Nay don't take me wrong, but this looks strange. When me my lads returned from Dagorlad, I asked one of my lads, Zolg: Ai, why didn't you use yer bow? You were afraid, eh? He didn't answer, he had to do something first. But that little maggot Shagbag came and said: Sir, I didn't use my bow but it was because I didn't have much arrows. Know what I mean? I wasn't even going to ask him, and here he came. This is what you did, Six. I know, maybe all too stupid for a wolf, but...

As for the triangle debate happening up there, meaning Rikae, Roa, Glirdy. I have seen this before. Back then, one was a dirty wolfish Tark-lover and one a Cobbler. I don't think we have a Cobbler here, though everything's possible. But I see these talks as pretty "cookin' out of water". And one wolfy sluggard could no problem hide in there.

Only to add my opinion on that "roles-whatroles-revealing-whatever", I think we shouldn't worry that much, we can only speculate and that's about nothing, until one beautiful day the line "you have lynched your Seer" appears. But I suggest we bear in mind these posts now here, and in case someone reveals proclaiming "I'm a Ranger", double-check if what he does makes sense with what he wrote here about revealing roles.

I'm off, gonna re-read, re-check. I already have some suspects on today, but still it's the whole afternoon ahead of us and... well, just stay sharp.

EDIT: X-posted with all these guys down from the "DEATH TO YOU" scream.

[Mithalwen]

I don't see what is so suspicious about Roa ..we all know she likes to get peopletalking and likes to analyse. Since this game has more or less unlimited variables it doesn't give her much to work on so what else to talk about is the possibilities. And she is spot on to say that it is suspicius for gifteds to declare. For myself I will almost vote to lynch anyone who declares as a hunter this game. I always think it is self defeating for a hunter to declare and this game where there could be no hunters or two hunters it would make a great cover for a wolf.

Other roles used but not mentioned are Shirriffs and wasn't there a weaver once ..I remember talk of it but not if it were actually used and what it did.

Mythomaniacs previously don't take their role until Night 2 since the idea is that it is a choice informed by the first day's observation.

[Mithalwen]

Well I will have to get back to work in a couple of minutes ..I hope that it is a bit livelier when I return....... actually that is a bit of a cert since Noggin should be arount ....

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Mith

And she is spot on to say that it is suspicius for gifteds to declare.

I'd rather a more important gifted (the Hunter isn't that important) declared themselves rather than letting themselves be killed. THat would be a huge blow, losing a gifted by our own hands.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

I'd rather a more important gifted (the Hunter isn't that important) declared themselves rather than letting themselves be killed. THat would be a huge blow, losing a gifted by our own hands.

Of course it is a blow but if a ranger declares they will die that night anyway and a seer may not be able to be protected. Given that there are no retractables, what do we do? Sacrifice an innocent in all likelihood then provide the wolves with a "no brainer" kill. Obviously individual circumstances apply but IAm speaking from the perspective of someone who panicked into declaring both times and it was less than ideal...

[the guy who be short]

It's better to lynch anybody and have a chance of getting a wolf than to lynch a Seer/Ranger. If they are in a position where they are likely to be lynched, that means they will die anyway. They may as well declare, let the wolves get them at night and let the village try to get a wolf in the day rather than killing the gifted.

Like you, I am talking generally and individual circumstances apply. In any case it will be up to the gifted when they're about to snuff it to decide what to do. No point speculating any further.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Glirdan, about Lommy

She first votes for me. Then she goes on to say that the evidence is feeble ad that she would like to hear my response but is votingon my because I'm the most suspicious when almost 1/3 of the players have not voted yet. Now, I take into account her time zone problem as that is why I myself have to vote now.

If you have to vote, you have to vote. And if you only have one miserable suspect then you might vote for that one, though you would rather not.


I don't want to defend Roa ( ), but I don't see anything suspicious about her first post. There was nothing else to talk about at the time but roleplay, and her points make sense. It's better to state that gifteds have a more difficult task revealing themselves early on Day One than when the situation is at hand and everybody panics.

Originally Posted by Legate

The best we can do is to hope we'll be lucky enough today to pick a stupid Wolf, or that we are lucky enough to pick a random guy and look, he's a wolf! Well, I don't believe in miracles.

Not so pessimistic, my Chieftain! There are more stupid wolves than one might think, and even smart wolves can be caught early.. sometimes.


I would suggest to not be too strict about my companion in wizardry, the Sixth Wizard. It's not nice to lynch somebody on the first Day of his first game, especially when he's no longer there to defend himself.

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Mac

There are more stupid wolves than one might think

Oh really? Perhaps you can tell us more, Mr Mac the Magician... I wouldn't be surprised to find such a man shapeshifting at night!

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Brinn? Sixth? Gil? No idea, you can't tell much from their posts.

i fail to see how anyone can tell from the first posts...

but i got a little itch from Lommy's post... she just came right out and tried to defend Roa... could be a virtuous villager, but everyone should know that if they are an ordinary, they are on their own

so that makes me inclined to think that either Roa and thin are wolves... or our gifted...

Suspicous:
Thinlomien
Roa

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

Oh really? Perhaps you can tell us more, Mr Mac the Magician... I wouldn't be surprised to find such a man shapeshifting at night!

I just don't like it when people bemoan that we aren't going to catch a wolf on Day One except by luck, especially when it's still this early one the Day.

[Rikae]

I just have a moment to check the posts now, but I'll be around before the deadline.

Right now the whole Glirdan issue is most attention grabbing. While I raised an eyebrow at the way Glirdan's second post seems to misrepresent the issues, I can't decide whether to believe it's willful misrepresentation or innocent misunderstanding. The blending of "oh, pretty butterfly..." in character comments with suspicion feels off to me too, but I'll reserve judgement for the time being.
Something about TGWBS bugs me. He says that Roa's first post is "trying to sound helpful without being helpful", and that phrase immediately jumped out at me. It's become sort of a stock-accusation that's easy to fling around, and doesn't really make sense so early in the game. It seems a little too generalized, and especially bothers me coupled with the suspicion toward Thinlomien for voting early (in my experience, she almost always does, and I think TGWBS knows that).
I also wonder why he wouldn't want a hunter to reveal:

Originally Posted by The Guy Who Be Short

I'd rather a more important gifted (the Hunter isn't that important) declared themselves rather than letting themselves be killed. .

If I'm not mistaken, an ordinary hunter only kills if he/she is killed by wolves. It seems to me the wolves would like very much to have a hunter safely lynched, rather than revealed.
I don't care for Legate's defeatist attitude; we may have slim chances of catching a wolf on day one, but they are certainly better if we actually make an effort!

EDIT: x'd with Gil and Mac
EDIT2: Oh yeah, just Mac. I forgot seeing Gil's post.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I just don't like it when people bemoan that we aren't going to catch a wolf on Day One except by luck, especially when it's still this early one the Day.

I do wholeheartedly agree with Macalaure here. And in fact there are actual possibilities of catching a wolf on Day1 if the village just a) keeps talking and b) keeps talking sensibly (not only the rolestuff). Many a wolf has met their maker in the end of Day1, with reasoned voting... So let's not downplay our chances. I personally tend to put those people higher in my list of suspicions who say we should just trust our luck or vote randomly on Day1. That's what suits the villains best.

I share the view a few here that Roa was just trying to make a reasonable point at a phase of the game where there was basically nothing else to say and thence will look more suspiciously to those who tried to make a case out of it. The problerm with Roa surely is that she would do that as a villain too...

Glirdy then? He looks so bad again... but I would actually hesitate with lynching him once again on Day1 because he looks suspicious. That's what he manages to do everytime.

Also I happen to know that Lommy had no choice but to vote at that time and I don't envy her situation. If you throw judgements over her voting please tell us whom you would have voted on that hour and with what reasons? That doesn't rule out the possibility that Lommy is a baddie who loves her situatiuon where she can vote "safely" everyDay because of the timezones / netaccess -things.

Okay. I'll check the thread again and try to see if there is anything else to say. I need to attend to a meeting soon but will be back to play actively the last three hours or something.

[Roa_Aoife]

Oh good, people talked! That makes me so happy.

So, the "Day 1's are useless" "No they aren't" debate has been started. Well, I'll admit that when no one talks on Day 1, very little gets done. However, you can catch people in lies or contradictions, especially if they're vocal. It's been done before, and it can happen again. Day 1 is the most useless when everyone bemoans how useless it is, and nothing gets done.

Originally Posted by TGWBS

I disagree. Talking about gifteds and all that this early is in no way helpful. They can also work things out for themselves. That Roa-post looks like it was trying to be helpful, but wasn't saying much that was helpful to the village.

No way helpful? You don't think it's helpful to point out that a wolf could easily hide as a gifted, especially in this game, and that we should be aware of it? Would you rather I wait until Day 3, when someone suddenly says "Wait, I'm a gifted!" and everyone panics and tries to find someone else to vote for? At such a time, that point would do more harm than good, causing even greater confusion than what typically happens on such days.

Her accusations and vote for Glirdan. Seems to be on very shoddy evidence to me.

She had to go, and it's probable that she won't be on again until after the Day has ended. Voting for the person you find most suspicious isn't suspicious, it's what everyone does. I like that much more than a random vote.

Isn't that what Roa, who she defends, was doing?

What was I doing? Perhaps you didn't read the full post. I systematically went over the possible roles, established what we could and could not do about them (mostly nothing), and ended it by saying:

Originally Posted by Me

So, with that out of the way, we can stop worrying about roles which might not even be here, and just focus on catching wolves.

I garuntee you, if I hadn't brought it up, someone else would have, likely a wolf, and tried to stir conversation and debate about it. I find your means of accusing me through accusing Thin to be extremely shady.

Moving on....

Originally Posted by Gil

so that makes me inclined to think that either Roa and thin are wolves... or our gifted...

Openly marking suspected gifted makes me very nervous indeed. And knowing how quiet Gil tends to be, I have little hope of getting a better read off of him.

And finally....

Originally Posted by Glirdan

And now I am clear. I was actually a litte befuddled by what you had posted which made me leery(sp?) of you. Sorry for jumping down your throat.

I'm not so sure I accept this defense. If you weren't clear, why jump so readily on Rikae's point? Why not ask for clarification instead? You used some pretty dire wording for mere "befuddlement."

I have to vote now, since I won't be back till after the deadline.

++TGWBS

He worries me the most right now, especially since I am wary of anyone who tries to carry on a debate about roles we might not even have, and he keeps doing just that. Not to mention he says:

Originally Posted by TGWBS

Talking about gifteds and all that this early is in no way helpful.

and then

I'd rather a more important gifted (the Hunter isn't that important) declared themselves rather than letting themselves be killed. THat would be a huge blow, losing a gifted by our own hands.

and

It's better to lynch anybody and have a chance of getting a wolf than to lynch a Seer/Ranger. If they are in a position where they are likely to be lynched, that means they will die anyway. They may as well declare, let the wolves get them at night and let the village try to get a wolf in the day rather than killing the gifted.

For someone who thinks talking about gifteds is unhelpful, that's aboutall his posts have been. And that, for you people who think Day 1's are useless, is a contradiction.

Edit: Crossed with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

With this little posting I can see Roa, Brinniel, Macalaure and Mith speaking in cool and wise ways. It makes me think better of them but at the same time it nags me whether their honeyed lips conceal a terrible secret.

I thought Rikae a bit suspicious based on her reaction to Roa but find her now sharing my slight suspicions of tgwbs. I also thought tgwbs's suspicion of Lommy a bit lupine (see: four points in a list this early in the game - even though the last one was a joke). I do not claim that Lommy is innocent - to me she is a potential werewolf as all you others - but the way tgwbs made his "case" was somewhat worrying. Even if I myself think that wise wolves just sit back and relax on Day1, there is no rule that no wolf should not actively try to steer the voting on Day1. Of course if there was a case that a fellow (thence Glirdy?) was suspected? That could make sense at least on the early game when it's not standing out so clearly. But that is weak indeed.

I'm somewhat confused about Legate at this moment. He speaks a lot of sense there, a lot of nonsense and then somethings that just ring my alarm-bells...

The sixth wizard surely looks pretty odd too, but as someone already noted, it would be a shame to lynch someone for that reason in his first game Day1.

I'll be back, hopefully with something more constructive to say...

EDIT: X'd with Roa

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Something about TGWBS bugs me. He says that Roa's first post is "trying to sound helpful without being helpful", and that phrase immediately jumped out at me. It's become sort of a stock-accusation that's easy to fling around, and doesn't really make sense so early in the game. It seems a little too generalized, and especially bothers me coupled with the suspicion toward Thinlomien for voting early (in my experience, she almost always does, and I think TGWBS knows that).

Firstly, I nowhere stated any suspicious of Thinlomien for voting early. Misrepresentation is a dangerous game to play, Rikae...

As for why I didn't like Roa's post, if I must go into detail to satisfy you, let's go:

She starts off talking about what roles might be in this village, how many wolves, etc. These are all thoughts that the rest of us should already have had and so there is no real point in saying that it's unlikely that there are more the 3 wolves.

She then says we have to be wary of people coming out as gifted because they may just be wolves. She casts doubt on whether we'll have a ranger/seer/hunter at all; I personally can't imagine that the village would be left without the first two at all. She also conveniently says that being uncontested is not proof of being gifted, and that greater proof is required. This strikes me as wolvish; she's striking down any revealed gifted before they even have a chance to reveal themselves.

She says this:

We don't know if we have a ranger though, so if we go a night with out a kill, we cannot assume that a person was protected.

So no kill means that the wolves just decided not to kill anybody? Why not come to the sensible conclusion that no kill = ranger? Why is she trying to make us doubt even this?

So, with that out of the way, we can stop worrying about roles which might not even be here, and just focus on catching wolves.

Which is what we were meant to be doing anyway. That whole post just seems to be filler, so we can see she's said lots of words. The words themselves seem to say little; the little they say, I construe as wolvish.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I also wonder why he wouldn't want a hunter to reveal

The way I see it, a Hunter is more likely to kill an innocent than a wolf. They're also unimportant on the grand scale; a seer can reveal wolves and innocents, a ranger can protect known innocents. A hunter can't really do much.

[Gil-Galad]

i fear i must vote now for i won't make the deadline too...

so today my vote must go to

++Thinlomien

[the guy who be short]

Whom I cross-posted with earlier.

For someone who thinks talking about gifteds is unhelpful, that's aboutall his posts have been. And that, for you people who think Day 1's are useless, is a contradiction.

Very shoddy basis for voting. Both those comments you mentioned (and there were only two) were in response to Mith.

No way helpful? You don't think it's helpful to point out that a wolf could easily hide as a gifted, especially in this game, and that we should be aware of it? Would you rather I wait until Day 3, when someone suddenly says "Wait, I'm a gifted!" and everyone panics and tries to find someone else to vote for?

No. No. And no.

We all know wolves can hide as gifteds, and I've already said I don't think this game is special or magical. I can't see us not having a Seer or Ranger.

Also I'd rather you didn't say anything at all. All that first post has caused is unnecessary speculation; I and others have been forced to reply to it and carry on with this useless role-speculation.

What was I doing? Perhaps you didn't read the full post. I systematically went over the possible roles, established what we could and could not do about them (mostly nothing),

And you don't count that as overspeculation about roles, eh?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ai! Steady now! I think this is going too far unnecessarily. Gnarl, if anyone values my opinion, this speaks for both tgwbs and Roa's innocence - at least concerning this matter, this discussion. tgwbs's defence seems too real, honest, you know what I mean. Roa on the other hand, I think - tgwbs, you might not see it, but - very very much reminds me of the "teacher syndrome". I have experience with it myself when teaching little Orcs, and I think this is just it. I absolutely see your point, tgwbs, but I think Roa just tried to point out something, even if it seemed obvious to you (to me, also), because she thought there might be people who wouldn't think of it. And she might be right. So no accusations based on this one from me, and I suggest you don't as well.

Oh, don't think that's all from me. Just had to step in, Whiteskins. I'll be back. Just need a quiet rest and time to think, curse you! *walks off to his hut and slams the door*