'Run off into the Blue' - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

03-25-2007, 01:16 PM

Hello,

I am writing on behalf a group of Tolkien fans from Brazil.
Our books are translated to portuguese, and there are expressions that we have difficulty to understand them.

Please, can you help us?

In chapter 'The Shadow of the Past' :
'But in the meantime, the general opinion in the neighbourhood was that Bilbo, who had always been rather cracked, had at last gone quite mad, and had run off into the Blue. There he had undoubtedly and come to a tragic, but hardly an untimely, end.'

What 'Blue' means there?

Some people think that this 'Blue' means 'Sea". Others think that 'run off into the Blue' mean 'go so far away', 'to desappear'.

Coud you explain what Tolkien means exactly?

I apologize and hope that it has not caused any inconvenience.

Thak you for your patience and undertanding.

Sorry, my english is not very good.

Elmo · 03-25-2007, 01:22 PM

Into the blue means Bilbo traveled into the unknown

03-25-2007, 01:30 PM

Thank you very much.

Well, our doubt is: why 'Blue' is in capital letter?

Raynor · 03-25-2007, 01:36 PM

A similar statement is found in Chapter 1 of The Hobbit ("Not the Gandalf who was responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures?"). Hammond and Scull, in their LotR Reader's Companion comments on this paragraph, equte "into the Blue" with "into the unknown, into the 'wide (or wild) blue yonder'".

Mithalwen · 03-25-2007, 01:50 PM

I don't know for certain but I guess the expression comes from the horizon appearing blue on landscapes as well as seascapes. We also have an expression "in to the wild blue yonder" which has similar meanings.

People or things who arrive unexpectedly and suddenly are also said to "come out of the blue".

Your English is fine by the way and I am sure that I speak for us all in saying you, and your questions, are very welcome and I hope you will enjoy your visits to the downs.

I don't have the Hobbit with me so I don't know whether the capital letter is original or in the translation only. If it is in the original - it may be to make clear that he is using blue as a noun not an adjective. Tolkien does sometimes capitalise things when they have special significance, it was something that they made more consistent in the revised text I think.

davem · 03-25-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

into the blue
At a far distance; into the unknown: spontaneously take a trip into the blue.

out of the blue
1. From an unexpected or unforeseen source: criticism that came out of the blue.
2. At a completely unexpected time: a long-unseen friend who appeared out of the blue.

As has been stated, it means going into the unknown. But you have me intrigued. Why is the unknown 'Blue'? Blue is the colour of the sky, the sea & of the far distance (a blue haze on the horizon). Of course 'heaven' is blue & 'heaven' can refer to paradise, the sky or as a euphemism for the OtherWorld. Possibly in origin it referred to going into Faery/crossing into the otherworld?

Possibly not....

Cross-posted with Mith..

Elmo · 03-26-2007, 06:21 AM

I've read apparently the phrase comes from fighter pilots, they go into the blue i.e. the sky

Mithalwen · 03-26-2007, 06:25 AM

Well they do .. but I suspect that it was a phrase older than military aviation - which was barely twenty years old at the time of the Hobbit .... of course ships would have gone of into the blue as well...disappearing where the blue of the sky met the blue of the sea...

Edit: I looked this up in Brewers' last night and no joy

.. Maybe you are right adn I need the 20th Century edition... but it just "feels" that it has been around for ever ..further back than WW1... but that could just be me...

William Cloud Hicklin · 03-26-2007, 07:13 AM

As an old Navy man, I can testify that very frequently the horizon is lost in a bluish haze, into which ships 'disappear' long before they would go hull-down on a clear day.

Elmo · 03-26-2007, 11:37 AM

That's magic, I've always lived in sight of the sea and my grandfather was a sailor. I have always had an affinity for it. I suppose it is one of the things I love about Tolkien is the theme of the sea in his works. Ah! this reminds me of a Colin Rudd original I've discovered... The Coast is My Commander Enjoy!

Rumil · 03-27-2007, 01:20 PM

Hi all,

I've heard that the British forces in the North African desert campaign often referred to going into the desert at going 'into the Blue' and that 'the Blue' became the nickname for the desert. I guess JRRT could have picked up this usage from his son, who was stationed in the Middle East, but the timing seems wrong for the Hobbit quote.

Cheers,

Farael · 03-27-2007, 09:32 PM

Well, having learned English as a second language, I believe that somewhere or another, I learned that "going off into the blue" meant "going away, into the unknown".

And as anything I learned from my English books, odds are it's a very antiquated and odd way of speaking, that Tolkien as a great scholar, knew and used.

03-25-2007, 01:16 PM	#1
Edhelcalen Guest Posts: n/a	'Run off into the Blue' Hello, I am writing on behalf a group of Tolkien fans from Brazil. Our books are translated to portuguese, and there are expressions that we have difficulty to understand them. Please, can you help us? In chapter 'The Shadow of the Past' : 'But in the meantime, the general opinion in the neighbourhood was that Bilbo, who had always been rather cracked, had at last gone quite mad, and had run off into the Blue. There he had undoubtedly and come to a tragic, but hardly an untimely, end.' What 'Blue' means there? Some people think that this 'Blue' means 'Sea". Others think that 'run off into the Blue' mean 'go so far away', 'to desappear'. Coud you explain what Tolkien means exactly? I apologize and hope that it has not caused any inconvenience. Thak you for your patience and undertanding. Sorry, my english is not very good.

03-25-2007, 01:22 PM	#2
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	Into the blue means Bilbo traveled into the unknown __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

03-25-2007, 01:36 PM	#4
Raynor Eagle of the Star Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sarmisegethuza Posts: 1,058	A similar statement is found in Chapter 1 of The Hobbit ("Not the Gandalf who was responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures?"). Hammond and Scull, in their LotR Reader's Companion comments on this paragraph, equte "into the Blue" with "into the unknown, into the 'wide (or wild) blue yonder'". __________________ "May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free."

03-25-2007, 01:50 PM	#5
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	I don't know for certain but I guess the expression comes from the horizon appearing blue on landscapes as well as seascapes. We also have an expression "in to the wild blue yonder" which has similar meanings. People or things who arrive unexpectedly and suddenly are also said to "come out of the blue". Your English is fine by the way and I am sure that I speak for us all in saying you, and your questions, are very welcome and I hope you will enjoy your visits to the downs. I don't have the Hobbit with me so I don't know whether the capital letter is original or in the translation only. If it is in the original - it may be to make clear that he is using blue as a noun not an adjective. Tolkien does sometimes capitalise things when they have special significance, it was something that they made more consistent in the revised text I think. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 03-25-2007 at 01:54 PM. Reason: X-post

03-26-2007, 06:21 AM	#7
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	I've read apparently the phrase comes from fighter pilots, they go into the blue i.e. the sky __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

03-25-2007, 01:30 PM	#3
Edhelcalen Guest Posts: n/a	Thank you very much. Well, our doubt is: why 'Blue' is in capital letter?

03-26-2007, 06:25 AM	#8
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Well they do .. but I suspect that it was a phrase older than military aviation - which was barely twenty years old at the time of the Hobbit .... of course ships would have gone of into the blue as well...disappearing where the blue of the sky met the blue of the sea... Edit: I looked this up in Brewers' last night and no joy .. Maybe you are right adn I need the 20th Century edition... but it just "feels" that it has been around for ever ..further back than WW1... but that could just be me... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-26-2007, 07:13 AM	#9
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,321	As an old Navy man, I can testify that very frequently the horizon is lost in a bluish haze, into which ships 'disappear' long before they would go hull-down on a clear day.

03-26-2007, 11:37 AM	#10
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	That's magic, I've always lived in sight of the sea and my grandfather was a sailor. I have always had an affinity for it. I suppose it is one of the things I love about Tolkien is the theme of the sea in his works. Ah! this reminds me of a Colin Rudd original I've discovered... The Coast is My Commander Enjoy! __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

03-27-2007, 01:20 PM	#11
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	The Blue Hi all, I've heard that the British forces in the North African desert campaign often referred to going into the desert at going 'into the Blue' and that 'the Blue' became the nickname for the desert. I guess JRRT could have picked up this usage from his son, who was stationed in the Middle East, but the timing seems wrong for the Hobbit quote. Cheers, __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

03-27-2007, 09:32 PM	#12
Farael Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: In hospitals, call rooms and (rarely) my apartment. Posts: 1,538	Well, having learned English as a second language, I believe that somewhere or another, I learned that "going off into the blue" meant "going away, into the unknown". And as anything I learned from my English books, odds are it's a very antiquated and odd way of speaking, that Tolkien as a great scholar, knew and used. __________________ I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.