How many people touched the One Ring ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Mouth of Sauron · 03-14-2007, 06:14 PM

From its creation to its destruction, a number of people physically touched the One Ring .

I make the discrete number of people who did so 9 ( nine ) . Am I right ?

radagastly · 03-14-2007, 06:27 PM

Let's see:
1. Sauron
2. Isildur
3. Deagol
4. Smeagol
5. Bilbo
6. Frodo
7. Gandalf
8. Samwise
9. Tom Bombadil

Possibly a tenth, in Rivendell. While Frodo was unconscious, someone placed the ring on a chain. If that someone was Gandalf, then the number is still nine. If it was Elrond, or someone else from his house, then the number is ten.

But I haven't read all the way through in a while, so I may be missing someone.

The Mouth of Sauron · 03-14-2007, 06:32 PM

Would Shelob count if she accidentally touched the Ring whilst binding Frodo with cords ?

radagastly · 03-14-2007, 07:07 PM

IF she accidentally touched it, then she would count, in my opinion. She would fit in the same category as the The Mysterious 10th Bearer Of course, there's no way to know whether she touched it or not, or whether or not it would have any effect on her. I suspect her reaction would be similar to that of Tom Bombadil, but there's no way to know for sure. We just don't know enough about her.

MatthewM · 03-14-2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radagastly

IF she accidentally touched it, then she would count, in my opinion. She would fit in the same category as the The Mysterious 10th Bearer Of course, there's no way to know whether she touched it or not, or whether or not it would have any effect on her. I suspect her reaction would be similar to that of Tom Bombadil, but there's no way to know for sure. We just don't know enough about her.

Just curious, why do you suspect her reaction would be similar to Tom's? Tom was a good man, Shelob was an evil creature. I know she is ages old, but don't you think her evil ways would affect her differently than Tom's innocent spirit? I think so...

radagastly · 03-14-2007, 10:57 PM

I think that, like Tom, she was beyond it's influence, though not for the same reasons. Tom was Master of his domain, and within its borders, nothing was master of him. The Ring had nothing to offer him, because he already had all he wanted and knew it. He is contentment.

Shelob was much the opposite, perhaps even a deliberate foil for Tom, of sorts (though I would never second-guess Tolkien's intentions.) Much like Ungoliant with Morgoth, her greed and hunger seemed to surpass Sauron's even at the height of his power. Surely the Ring, alone and seperate from its Master's Hand, could never tempt a creature that was already consumed with temptation. She simply wouldn't notice the difference between the Ring's poison carrots and her own lust.

Also, the Ring itself may well have held back in her presence. Certainly, Sauron had no real influence over Shelob, just a convenient truce. The Ring could certainly not expect to have any more success than that. Even if the Ring managed to take hold of Shelob, it would very likely find itself in the same kind of dark cave as it was with Gollum. Only this time, it's keeper would eat any possible finders before they ever got close enough to touch their hand on them as Bilbo did. There, on the very edge of it's homeland, it would be lost in the dark forever.

Boo Radley · 03-15-2007, 12:12 PM

Very good point. What would it benefit the Ring if it became trapped in Shelob's cave for another age?
As fot the "Mysterious 10th person"... I really don't think it could have been Bilbo. He was too scarred by the ring and if he touched it again, I believe he would have been lost to it.

Lalaith · 03-15-2007, 12:24 PM

I thought Gandalf never did actually touch the ring, he used tongs, didn't he? (Or is Peter Jackson playing tricks with my mind?)
Also, it would be physically possible to change the chain on the ring without touching the ring. You could thread the chain through, use a big needle-type object.
(Try this one at home, kids!)
I think everyone with any sense tried to avoid touching the ring, didn't they?

Boo Radley · 03-15-2007, 12:50 PM

Ahh... it's been a while since I read the Fellowship. I know Gandalf used tongs to remove the ring from Frodo's fireplace, but did he use them to toss it in?

Morwen · 03-15-2007, 06:40 PM

[QUOTE=radagastly]I think that, like Tom, she was beyond it's influence, though not for the same reasons. Tom was Master of his domain, and within its borders, nothing was master of him. The Ring had nothing to offer him, because he already had all he wanted and knew it. He is contentment.

Shelob was much the opposite, perhaps even a deliberate foil for Tom, of sorts (though I would never second-guess Tolkien's intentions.) Much like Ungoliant with Morgoth, her greed and hunger seemed to surpass Sauron's even at the height of his power. Surely the Ring, alone and seperate from its Master's Hand, could never tempt a creature that was already consumed with temptation. She simply wouldn't notice the difference between the Ring's poison carrots and her own lust.

Also, the Ring itself may well have held back in her presence. Certainly, Sauron had no real influence over Shelob, just a convenient truce. The Ring could certainly not expect to have any more success than that. Even if the Ring managed to take hold of Shelob, it would very likely find itself in the same kind of dark cave as it was with Gollum. Only this time, it's keeper would eat any possible finders before they ever got close enough to touch their hand on them as Bilbo did. There, on the very edge of it's homeland, it would be lost in the dark forever.[/QUOTE] (my emphasis)

That would have been bad news for poor Gollum after all his hard work in betraying Frodo so that he get the Ring (after Shelob had finished dining on Frodo of course). It never seems to have crossed his mind that She might take his precious.

That said, I agree that Shelob would not have had much use for the Ring. Her agenda seemed to be eating anything that moved, not world domination. Also, (and here I readily admit that I am no expert on arachnid anatomy) but would binding Frodo in cords have brought Shelob into physical contact with the Ring? Especially as the Ring was located on a chain hidden inside Frodo's clothing?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 03-16-2007, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morwen

That would have been bad news for poor Gollum after all his hard work in betraying Frodo so that he get the Ring (after Shelob had finished dining on Frodo of course). It never seems to have crossed his mind that She might take his precious.

He possibly considered her "just a spider" (she had no fingers to put the Ring on, right? What would she do with it?). Gollum probably never heard the story of Morgoth and Ungoliant

"The pass is known as Shriekoth, before known as Cirith Ungol, because Gollum shrieked terribly when Shelob attacked him after he didn't want to give her everything. But the Fishes heard him and came to his aid."
But, here is what Gollum thought:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TT, Chapter 9: Shelob's Lair

we'll see. It may well be, O yes, it may well be that when She throws away the bones and the empty garments, we shall find it, we shall get it, the Precious, a reward for poor Sméagol who brings nice food. And we'll save the Precious, as we promised. O yes. And when we've got it safe, then She'll know it, O yes, then we'll pay Her back, my precious. Then we'll pay everyone back!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morwen

Also, (and here I readily admit that I am no expert on arachnid anatomy) but would binding Frodo in cords have brought Shelob into physical contact with the Ring? Especially as the Ring was located on a chain hidden inside Frodo's clothing?

I am also not an expert, but I think she didn't have to come into physical contact with the Ring.

Knight of Gondor · 03-17-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

Very good point. What would it benefit the Ring if it became trapped in Shelob's cave for another age?
As fot the "Mysterious 10th person"... I really don't think it could have been Bilbo. He was too scarred by the ring and if he touched it again, I believe he would have been lost to it.

It's clear from conversations between Bilbo and Frodo that Bilbo had NOT seen the Ring. He wasn't completely sure it was even in Rivendell to begin with.

As for Shelob, it seems Gollum, who was most familiar with the dark creature's habits, expected that she would have no intentions or uses for the Ring. It was his hope that he would still be able to find it, cast off along with other inedible objects.

William Cloud Hicklin · 03-26-2007, 06:09 PM

A) Gandalf: Gandalf never touched the thing directly. As mentioned above, he used tongs with Frodo; with Bilbo he picked up the envelope the Ring was in, but not the Ring directly.

B) Gil-Galad: Conceivably, Gil-Galad was touched by the Ring, rather than vice-versa, in the last moments of his life.

narfforc · 03-27-2007, 12:24 PM

It felt suddenly very heavy, as if either it or Frodo himself was in some way reluctant for Gandalf to touch it. Gandalf held it up..............................

...........To Frodo's astonishment and distress the wizard threw it suddenly into the middle of a glowing corner of the fire...............................

................,then he stooped and removed the the ring to the hearth with the tongs, and at once picked it up. Frodo gasped. 'It is quite cool,' said Gandalf. 'Take it'............

There is at least two times Gandalf touches the ring. In fact in this sense Baksi beats Jackson hands down.....

William Cloud Hicklin · 03-28-2007, 05:16 AM

Whoops! You're quite right, of course.

Finduilas · 04-10-2007, 10:14 AM

I believe Sam had to take the Ring out of Frodos shirt, which means that Shelob would have no contact with it. I'm not quite sure about that though.

--Fin--

03-14-2007, 06:14 PM	#1
The Mouth of Sauron Wight Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Barad-Dur Posts: 196	How many people touched the One Ring ? From its creation to its destruction, a number of people physically touched the One Ring . I make the discrete number of people who did so 9 ( nine ) . Am I right ?

03-14-2007, 06:27 PM	#2
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	Let's see: 1. Sauron 2. Isildur 3. Deagol 4. Smeagol 5. Bilbo 6. Frodo 7. Gandalf 8. Samwise 9. Tom Bombadil Possibly a tenth, in Rivendell. While Frodo was unconscious, someone placed the ring on a chain. If that someone was Gandalf, then the number is still nine. If it was Elrond, or someone else from his house, then the number is ten. But I haven't read all the way through in a while, so I may be missing someone. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

03-14-2007, 07:07 PM	#4
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	IF she accidentally touched it, then she would count, in my opinion. She would fit in the same category as the The Mysterious 10th Bearer Of course, there's no way to know whether she touched it or not, or whether or not it would have any effect on her. I suspect her reaction would be similar to that of Tom Bombadil, but there's no way to know for sure. We just don't know enough about her. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

03-14-2007, 10:57 PM	#6
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	I think that, like Tom, she was beyond it's influence, though not for the same reasons. Tom was Master of his domain, and within its borders, nothing was master of him. The Ring had nothing to offer him, because he already had all he wanted and knew it. He is contentment. Shelob was much the opposite, perhaps even a deliberate foil for Tom, of sorts (though I would never second-guess Tolkien's intentions.) Much like Ungoliant with Morgoth, her greed and hunger seemed to surpass Sauron's even at the height of his power. Surely the Ring, alone and seperate from its Master's Hand, could never tempt a creature that was already consumed with temptation. She simply wouldn't notice the difference between the Ring's poison carrots and her own lust. Also, the Ring itself may well have held back in her presence. Certainly, Sauron had no real influence over Shelob, just a convenient truce. The Ring could certainly not expect to have any more success than that. Even if the Ring managed to take hold of Shelob, it would very likely find itself in the same kind of dark cave as it was with Gollum. Only this time, it's keeper would eat any possible finders before they ever got close enough to touch their hand on them as Bilbo did. There, on the very edge of it's homeland, it would be lost in the dark forever. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

03-15-2007, 12:24 PM	#8
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	I thought Gandalf never did actually touch the ring, he used tongs, didn't he? (Or is Peter Jackson playing tricks with my mind?) Also, it would be physically possible to change the chain on the ring without touching the ring. You could thread the chain through, use a big needle-type object. (Try this one at home, kids!) I think everyone with any sense tried to avoid touching the ring, didn't they? __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

03-14-2007, 06:32 PM	#3
The Mouth of Sauron Wight Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Barad-Dur Posts: 196	Would Shelob count if she accidentally touched the Ring whilst binding Frodo with cords ?

03-15-2007, 12:12 PM	#7
Boo Radley Wight Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ohio. Believe it or not. Posts: 145	Very good point. What would it benefit the Ring if it became trapped in Shelob's cave for another age? As fot the "Mysterious 10th person"... I really don't think it could have been Bilbo. He was too scarred by the ring and if he touched it again, I believe he would have been lost to it.

03-15-2007, 12:50 PM	#9
Boo Radley Wight Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ohio. Believe it or not. Posts: 145	Ahh... it's been a while since I read the Fellowship. I know Gandalf used tongs to remove the ring from Frodo's fireplace, but did he use them to toss it in?

03-15-2007, 06:40 PM	#10
Morwen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 274	[QUOTE=radagastly]I think that, like Tom, she was beyond it's influence, though not for the same reasons. Tom was Master of his domain, and within its borders, nothing was master of him. The Ring had nothing to offer him, because he already had all he wanted and knew it. He is contentment. Shelob was much the opposite, perhaps even a deliberate foil for Tom, of sorts (though I would never second-guess Tolkien's intentions.) Much like Ungoliant with Morgoth, her greed and hunger seemed to surpass Sauron's even at the height of his power. Surely the Ring, alone and seperate from its Master's Hand, could never tempt a creature that was already consumed with temptation. She simply wouldn't notice the difference between the Ring's poison carrots and her own lust. Also, the Ring itself may well have held back in her presence. Certainly, Sauron had no real influence over Shelob, just a convenient truce. The Ring could certainly not expect to have any more success than that. Even if the Ring managed to take hold of Shelob, it would very likely find itself in the same kind of dark cave as it was with Gollum. Only this time, it's keeper would eat any possible finders before they ever got close enough to touch their hand on them as Bilbo did. There, on the very edge of it's homeland, it would be lost in the dark forever.[/QUOTE] (my emphasis) That would have been bad news for poor Gollum after all his hard work in betraying Frodo so that he get the Ring (after Shelob had finished dining on Frodo of course). It never seems to have crossed his mind that She might take his precious. That said, I agree that Shelob would not have had much use for the Ring. Her agenda seemed to be eating anything that moved, not world domination. Also, (and here I readily admit that I am no expert on arachnid anatomy) but would binding Frodo in cords have brought Shelob into physical contact with the Ring? Especially as the Ring was located on a chain hidden inside Frodo's clothing?

03-26-2007, 06:09 PM	#13
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,307	A) Gandalf: Gandalf never touched the thing directly. As mentioned above, he used tongs with Frodo; with Bilbo he picked up the envelope the Ring was in, but not the Ring directly. B) Gil-Galad: Conceivably, Gil-Galad was touched by the Ring, rather than vice-versa, in the last moments of his life.

03-27-2007, 12:24 PM	#14
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	Hands on It felt suddenly very heavy, as if either it or Frodo himself was in some way reluctant for Gandalf to touch it. Gandalf held it up.............................. ...........To Frodo's astonishment and distress the wizard threw it suddenly into the middle of a glowing corner of the fire............................... ................,then he stooped and removed the the ring to the hearth with the tongs, and at once picked it up. Frodo gasped. 'It is quite cool,' said Gandalf. 'Take it'............ There is at least two times Gandalf touches the ring. In fact in this sense Baksi beats Jackson hands down..... __________________ [B]THE LORD OF THE GRINS:THE ONE PARODY....A PARODY BETTER THAN THE RINGS OF POWER. Last edited by narfforc; 03-27-2007 at 12:34 PM.

03-28-2007, 05:16 AM	#15
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,307	Whoops! You're quite right, of course.

04-10-2007, 10:14 AM	#16
Finduilas Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Home. Where rolling green hills and clear rivers are practically my backyard. Posts: 595	I believe Sam had to take the Ring out of Frodos shirt, which means that Shelob would have no contact with it. I'm not quite sure about that though. --Fin--