Who was in the Host of the 'Valar'?

[Elmo]

I apologise most heartily if this has been talked about before, I've searched ( i've learned after my question about Elrond's ears ) but in the words of the great men of Yorkshire there was 'nowt' about this. I think someone asked this during a thread about something different but no one answered them.

Who was actually in the Host of the Valar? David Day's Tolkien Bestiary states that it was the Valar, the Maiar, the Vanyar, etc. But then then I realised that Tolkien fans hold DD in disdain and he doesn't seem to know what he was talking about etc. So were the Valar and the Maiar (except Eonwe) actually in it. I'd assume so because the force of all the remaining Elves doesn't seem to be enough to defeat Morgoth when all the Noldor, Sindar and Edain at their military peak could not especially with all his dragons and balrogs and what not. The Vanyar don't seem to be the war faring type and do you think a Maiar Eonwe could take down Morgoth. Tulkas on the other hand... The destruction of Beleriand seems to be similar to the early wars between Morgoth and the Valar and remember it was Tulkas who originally chained Morgoth so I'd assume he was the one who would do it again. But it is strange that Tolkien never mentioned him by name and also, Eonwe did all the talking surely Orome or someone if a Valar had been there would have spoken to the sons of Feanor.

[Anguirel]

Very interesting subject, old chap. I haven't my text at hand, but from what I remember, the participants in the War of Wrath on the side of the goodies were:

Eonwe leading a host of Maiar. Eonwe commanded the hosts overall. It was these heavies who caused the drowning of Beleriand.

The entire people of the Vanyar (presumably only the male elves though), led by Ingwe. Possibly made up of the most inexperienced warriors ever, this host would still have been powerful, a large number of Elves with the light of Valinor in their eyes.

The Noldor of Tirion led by Finarfin and perhaps including (we can speculate) the reborn Finrod Felagund.

The Three Houses of the Edain, what was left of them anyway, led by Elrond and Elros.

The Teleri transported the Host but refused to set foot on Middle-earth, remembering the burning of their ships at Losgar

The two remaining sons of Feanor were almost certainly not involved, being too afflicted by guilt. The Valar did not aid in person because of the horrific devastation their intervention would have caused (the drowning of Beleriand was already pretty bad...)

[Aiwendil]

I'm very much inclined to think that the Valar themselves were not present at the War of Wrath. There is certainly a great deal of circumstantial evidence to this effect (notably that all the references to the Valar participating in the Great Battle had been, by circa LQ2, removed). But I think the strongest piece of evidence is from one of the notes given in the 'Istari' chapter of UT:

Manwe will not descend from the Mountain until the Dagor Dagorath, and the coming of the End, when Melkor returns. To the overthrow of Morgoth he sent his herald Eonwe.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Yeah, I've always assumed the Valar weren't there, also. Why would Eonwe lead the host and take charge of the disposition of the Silmarils if Manwe, Orome or Tulkas had come along?

[Elmo]

I suppose Eonwe could take Morgoth because Morgoth had spent most of his strength by then... but why didn't the Valar do the job. There would less collateral damage if they had gone in with more force as the battle would have been over sooner.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by hewhoarisesinmight

but why didn't the Valar do the job. There would less collateral damage if they had gone in with more force as the battle would have been over sooner.

I think actually it's the other way around. If there were the Valar present, there wouldn't be less "collateral damage"... maybe on lives, but surely not on the face of Arda. Remember the first battle of Utumno, and look what happened to Beleriand when there were just Maiar. We can speculate that if Valar were present in the War of Wrath, there might be not even no Beleriand, but also for example no Eriador. Something like that.

Also there was the point that Valar considered their assault on Utumno a failure. Cf. somewhere around, I am sure there would be some references to this topic on some threads in the Downs.

Otherwise I agree with Anguirel, only some reference to the books to verify this would be good. And also, I think Aiwendil's point about Manwë is crucial to this topic.

[Raynor]

The entire people of the Vanyar (presumably only the male elves though), led by Ingwe.

Of Ingwe it is stated in The coming of the elves that he never returned to M-E.

The Noldor of Tirion led by Finarfin
...
The Teleri transported the Host but refused to set foot on Middle-earth, remembering the burning of their ships at Losgar

True enough

Originally Posted by Of the voyage of Earendil and the war of wrath

But the host of the Valar prepared for battle; and beneath their white banners marched the Vanyar, the people of Ingwe, and those also of the Noldor who never departed from Valinor, whose leader was Finarfin the son of Finwe. Few of the Teleri were willing to go forth to war, for they remembered the slaying at the Swan-haven, and the rape of their ships; but they hearkened to Elwing, who was the daughter of Dior Eluchil and come of their own kindred, and they sent mariners enough to sail the ships that bore the host of Valinor east over the sea. Yet they stayed aboard their vessels, and none of them set foot upon the Hither Lands.

The Three Houses of the Edain, what was left of them anyway, led by Elrond and Elros.

IIRC, the twins were born in 528 FA, while Earendil reached Aman in 536; I suppose the war starter few years after, which is no time for Elros and Elrond to grow to be leaders of armies.

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Manwe will not descend from the Mountain until the Dagor Dagorath, and the coming of the End, when Melkor returns. To the overthrow of Morgoth he sent his herald Eonwe.

There is a similar statement in Myths Transformed:

He, like Melkor, practically never is seen or heard of outside or far away from his own halls and permanent residence. Why is this? For no very profound reason. The Government is always in Whitehall. King Arthur is usually in Camelot or Caerleon and news and adventures come there and arise there. The 'Elder King' is obviously not going to be finally defeated or destroyed at least not before some ultimate 'Ragnarok' – which even for us is still in the future, so he can have no real 'adventures'. But if you keep him at home, the issue of any particular event (since it cannot then result in a final 'checkmate') can remain in literary suspense. Even to the final war against Morgoth it is Fionwe son of Manwe who leads out the power of the Valar. When we move out Manwe it will be the last battle, and the end of the World (or of 'Arda Marred') as the Eldar would say.

[I would note that Manwe would have particpated in previous wars, and that Fionwe is mentioned as his son, an idea which he seemed to have discarded later.]

[Aiwendil]

Raynor wrote:

There is a similar statement in Myths Transformed

Yes, this is another good piece of evidence. The UT quote is still important, though, in that there the change Fionwe > Eonwe has already taken place, indicating that even after the character ceased to be Manwe's son and became his herald instead, it was still deemed sensible for him to be put in command of the host of the Valar. There was some discussion of this point in the New Silmarillion project forum, I believe, if anyone wants to take a look.