Hmmmm...Did you know that... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 08-01-2006, 02:42 PM

The Tolkien family have their own charity . Check the List of Trustees

Mithalwen · 08-02-2006, 06:30 AM

Be interesting to know what they have made grants to... Trustees Christopher, his wife, Michael's daughter and Priscilla....

Bêthberry · 08-02-2006, 07:49 AM

So, it appears that the Tolkien Trust is also a charity, assuming the link is the real Trust link and not something hacked!

If you check out the accounts page (click the View Account Documents link), you can see what monies were paid out for the last three years. The 2005 page was signed by Priscialla; you can see her signature. There is also an interesting statement about indirect royalties accruing from the movies, royalties which will not maintain their high levels post-movie.

In 2005, most of the money went to the Bodleian Library to help set up archival work and a position to preserve the Tolkien papers and drawings there. There are unpublished papers, letters, and documents mentioned.

Some money was also given to the Univeristy of Manitoba (which I assume is the Canadian one, as I find it hard to imagine another Manitoba outside Canada). The list for 2005 is long. Among recipients are Medicins Sans Frontiers, Action Contre la Faim, Campaign to Protect Rural England, Simon Wiesenthal Centre, Womankind Worldwide, plus many other charities for support of single parents, refugees, local churches, ex-prisoners, environmental causes. It is quite a wide ranging list of social activism.

There's also a mention of something called The Grammar and Lexicon of the Gnomish Tongue by Tolkien. I've never heard of that before. Has anyone seen it?

I wonder if Peter Jackson has a trust set up and if he makes any dispersals to charities?

davem · 08-02-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

There's also a mention of something called The Grammar and Lexicon of the Gnomish Tongue by Tolkien. I've never heard of that before. Has anyone seen it?

Here

Mithalwen · 08-02-2006, 10:11 AM

How wonderful that the scope of the gifts goes beyond the obvious. A wonderful tribute to Tolkien's humanity as well as his literary skill (whatever the fiscal advantages - cynical bean counter thought...

).

Hilde Bracegirdle · 08-02-2006, 10:47 AM

So wonderful to see how his efforts have helped so many, and in so many corners of the world. I only wish he could have known this would happen as he was chipping away at his epic, seemingly overwhelmed by the constant need to make ends meet.

And a hardy bravo for his family!

davem · 08-02-2006, 11:52 AM

It also apears that the Charity's assets include the copyright of a good many of Tolkien's works. Makes me wonder how much the family are making personally from their father's works - probably not as much as we thought.

Perhaps we will now see an end to the criticism that CT is making a profit out of his father's work. Have to say that reading the lists of donations is a very humbling experience.

Good people.

Lalwendë · 08-02-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

It also apears that the Charity's assets include the copyright of a good many of Tolkien's works. Makes me wonder how much the family are making personally from their father's works - probably not as much as we thought.

Perhaps we will now see an end to the criticism that CT is making a profit out of his father's work. Have to say that reading the lists of donations is a very humbling experience.

Good people.

They're probably still earning a lot more than we think given the massive continuing sales of not just the books but all the merchandise. It's good to see that some of that money is being given out as donations - including some interesting things such as Brecon mountain rescue!

Mithalwen · 08-03-2006, 06:24 AM

I am not sure how much of the merchandising revenue the estate would have claim on - I imagine it rather depends on the deal originally made way back when - I think one of our legal beagles made some comments on copyright a year or so ago but I am not sure if it were Sauce or Mithadan. Interestingly the "book" names are trademarked to New Line/ Saul Zaentz not the Tolkien estate on the plastic figurines. However I have a spin off book that states that quotations from the original book are made with the permission of the Estate.... and the payment for this would surely count as an indirect royalty.

In an interview with Michael's grandson, he said that while they did benefit from the estate it wasn't riches beyond imagination and that they all worked...admittedly they probably have had the scope to chose congenial work without having to worry about keeping the wolf from the door. However it still suggests that as a family they have a fairly healthy attitude to the money.

davem · 08-03-2006, 11:29 AM

I notice that one of the books listed on the site as owned by the trust is The Tolkien Famiy Album - so its odd that they have refused it to be published again (or so I've heard. Certainly its no longer available & many fans would like to get hold of a copy).

Mithalwen · 08-03-2006, 12:49 PM

This is an interesting essay on the rights.

I wonder if the legacy in the A/Cs was from Fr John Tolkien. It would make sense.

As for the Tolkien Family Album, given the intrusion and often negative press Christopher gets in particular, I am not surprised that such a personal work hasn't been republished - it does't quite sit with a desire to maintains privacy, however since a substantial bequest has been made to the Bodley for a Tolkien photgraphic archive, I should think that this will be available in some form at some point. Maybe Christopher does not want it republished in his lifetime or perhaps the allegations regarding Fr John at the time of his death may be a factor ...

Lalwendë · 08-03-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

I notice that one of the books listed on the site as owned by the trust is The Tolkien Famiy Album - so its odd that they have refused it to be published again (or so I've heard. Certainly its no longer available & many fans would like to get hold of a copy).

It's often available on eBay and prices range from anything between £5 and £50+, so it's worth holding out for a cheap copy. I got mine in a remaindered bookshop for a couple of pounds, which begs the question of why it was in a remaindered shop if it was withdrawn from sale?

As for merchandise, even discounting the film merchandise, book-based memorabilia is now widely available, e.g. calendars and diaries in most countries, postcards and posters of Tolkien's art, and we all lap it all up!

Mithalwen · 08-03-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

which begs the question of why it was in a remaindered shop if it was withdrawn from sale?

As for merchandise, even discounting the film merchandise, book-based memorabilia is now widely available, e.g. calendars and diaries in most countries, postcards and posters of Tolkien's art, and we all lap it all up!

As to the first, I think it is more of a question of not republishing rather than withdrawing. I doubt that the estate would have any control on odd remnants lurking around in warehouses. I got my Tolkien Bio in a remainder shop - years ago but still long after publication.

As for the merchandise - well speak for yourself

. Most of it is so hideous. I saw a multiset of figurines in TKMaxx the other day and it was the stuff of nightmares ...and it was the "goodies". I mean even I felt sorry for Liv Tyler when I saw what they had done to her... at least the orcs and so forth are meant to have squints....

Mithalwen · 08-03-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilde Bracegirdle

So wonderful to see how his efforts have helped so many, and in so many corners of the world. I only wish he could have known this would happen as he was chipping away at his epic, seemingly overwhelmed by the constant need to make ends meet.

He was pretty comfortably off at the end of his life - The Bournemouth bungalow is in "millionaires' row" and he probably knew his family would be "cushioned" at least. But given that the gifts are at the choice of the trustees it does show how nasty the freeloading accusations are, as Davem points out. Of course these "freeloaders" that have donated to so many life affirming causes have gone about their giving discreetly so no doubt the image will stick

. I heartily approve of their regular small amounts policy too. The amounts may seem small when the total is looked at but having worked as Finance Officer for a small charity I know such gifts can make a huge difference. If you google the "Tolkien Trust" you will find that it is the major donor for a lot of the benifitting charities.

I can't help thinking it is a pity that the National Lottery charity committee does not comprise a quartet of Tolkiens....

Mithalwen · 03-28-2007, 11:21 AM

HI-ing this - the YE2006 accounts are on now....

08-01-2006, 02:42 PM	#1
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Hmmmm...Did you know that... The Tolkien family have their own charity . Check the List of Trustees __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

08-02-2006, 06:30 AM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Be interesting to know what they have made grants to... Trustees Christopher, his wife, Michael's daughter and Priscilla.... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-02-2006, 07:49 AM	#3
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,997	So, it appears that the Tolkien Trust is also a charity, assuming the link is the real Trust link and not something hacked! If you check out the accounts page (click the View Account Documents link), you can see what monies were paid out for the last three years. The 2005 page was signed by Priscialla; you can see her signature. There is also an interesting statement about indirect royalties accruing from the movies, royalties which will not maintain their high levels post-movie. In 2005, most of the money went to the Bodleian Library to help set up archival work and a position to preserve the Tolkien papers and drawings there. There are unpublished papers, letters, and documents mentioned. Some money was also given to the Univeristy of Manitoba (which I assume is the Canadian one, as I find it hard to imagine another Manitoba outside Canada). The list for 2005 is long. Among recipients are Medicins Sans Frontiers, Action Contre la Faim, Campaign to Protect Rural England, Simon Wiesenthal Centre, Womankind Worldwide, plus many other charities for support of single parents, refugees, local churches, ex-prisoners, environmental causes. It is quite a wide ranging list of social activism. There's also a mention of something called The Grammar and Lexicon of the Gnomish Tongue by Tolkien. I've never heard of that before. Has anyone seen it? I wonder if Peter Jackson has a trust set up and if he makes any dispersals to charities? __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

08-02-2006, 10:11 AM	#5
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	How wonderful that the scope of the gifts goes beyond the obvious. A wonderful tribute to Tolkien's humanity as well as his literary skill (whatever the fiscal advantages - cynical bean counter thought... ). __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-02-2006, 11:52 AM	#7
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	It also apears that the Charity's assets include the copyright of a good many of Tolkien's works. Makes me wonder how much the family are making personally from their father's works - probably not as much as we thought. Perhaps we will now see an end to the criticism that CT is making a profit out of his father's work. Have to say that reading the lists of donations is a very humbling experience. Good people. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

08-02-2006, 10:47 AM	#6
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	So wonderful to see how his efforts have helped so many, and in so many corners of the world. I only wish he could have known this would happen as he was chipping away at his epic, seemingly overwhelmed by the constant need to make ends meet. And a hardy bravo for his family!

08-03-2006, 06:24 AM	#9
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	I am not sure how much of the merchandising revenue the estate would have claim on - I imagine it rather depends on the deal originally made way back when - I think one of our legal beagles made some comments on copyright a year or so ago but I am not sure if it were Sauce or Mithadan. Interestingly the "book" names are trademarked to New Line/ Saul Zaentz not the Tolkien estate on the plastic figurines. However I have a spin off book that states that quotations from the original book are made with the permission of the Estate.... and the payment for this would surely count as an indirect royalty. In an interview with Michael's grandson, he said that while they did benefit from the estate it wasn't riches beyond imagination and that they all worked...admittedly they probably have had the scope to chose congenial work without having to worry about keeping the wolf from the door. However it still suggests that as a family they have a fairly healthy attitude to the money. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 03-28-2007 at 11:29 AM.

08-03-2006, 11:29 AM	#10
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	I notice that one of the books listed on the site as owned by the trust is The Tolkien Famiy Album - so its odd that they have refused it to be published again (or so I've heard. Certainly its no longer available & many fans would like to get hold of a copy). __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

08-03-2006, 12:49 PM	#11
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	This is an interesting essay on the rights. I wonder if the legacy in the A/Cs was from Fr John Tolkien. It would make sense. As for the Tolkien Family Album, given the intrusion and often negative press Christopher gets in particular, I am not surprised that such a personal work hasn't been republished - it does't quite sit with a desire to maintains privacy, however since a substantial bequest has been made to the Bodley for a Tolkien photgraphic archive, I should think that this will be available in some form at some point. Maybe Christopher does not want it republished in his lifetime or perhaps the allegations regarding Fr John at the time of his death may be a factor ... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-28-2007, 11:21 AM	#15
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	HI-ing this - the YE2006 accounts are on now.... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace