"My friends, you bow to no one"

Hi folks I'm new here.

For my first post, let me start off by saying (not sure if it's been mentioned at all on this forum previously, but I have been browsing it for a week or so), that one of the best bits that Peter Jackson did for the movie which 'trumped' the book was the bit where the hobbits are about to bow down to Aragorn and Arwen and the King stops them and says, "My friends, you bow to no one," and bows down himself - the others at the ceremony follow suit.

Very touching I felt.

[Anguirel]

I imagine I'll be in a small minority when I comment that I didn't really like this at all.

I could have just put up with it if it had been in the book, but it felt like an added, gratuitous feelgood moment. Like the excruciating bedroom scene with everyone laughing and crying and kissing and cuddling.

(Merry comes in.)

Frodo: Merryyyy!!!

(Gandalf comes in.)

Frodo: Gandalfff!!!

(Legolas comes in.)

Frodo: Legolas!!!!!

(Eomer comes in.)

Frodo: Er...who are you?

(Beregond, Imrahil, Glorfindel and Halbarad saunter in.)

Frodo: And who in Arda are you?

Chorus of cut characters: We will have our vengeance...hack, slash, hack...

Anyway, yup, I didn't like the bowing; it seemed superfluous, anachronistic, pseudo-democratic. Bad fanfic.

EDIT: Oh and welcome to the Downs deathscar.

[Folwren]

Gosh, Anguirel, that wasn't a very kind welcome.

That part in the movie was fair enough. Although it didn't move me to tears, it did some of my friends (much to my astonishment). I thought it was sweet, but never to the point of tears. It was a good touch, seeing what the hobbits did. In reality, Merry and Pippin didn't necessarily deserve it, but Frodo and Sam did. It would have been better still if Pippin and Merry and bowed, I think. But then Frodo and Sam would have felt really awkward. . .

Yes, welcome to the 'Downs. Hope you have fun.

-- Folwren

[Glirdan]

I must agree that it was a rather toughing moment, but I must also agree with Folwren that in reality, Merry and Pippin should be bowing as well because then it would have shown everyone who really saved Middle-Earth. But I believe, Folwren, that PJ had all four Hobbits to show that their race isn't as weak as was first thought, and for that matter, a legend. It shows us as the viewers that even the small can be powerful.

And welcome to the Down's Deathscar.

[alatar]

Have to agree with the those 'agreers' here. Would have been nice if Merry and Pippin were included in the act of respect, but I can see why PJ allows them to stand:

I guess that Pip feels worthy as he was able to trick an Ent into attacking Isengard, plus he lit the beacons which brought the Rohirrim to the Pelennor Fields. Truly heroic feats, to be sure. Merry helped kill the Witch-King, and that rates him over Gandalf, who was 'proned' by the King of the Nazgul. Plus he was able to ride from Dunharrow to Mundburg completely unnoticed, and this cone of invisibility was extended to Eowyn as well.

Welcome, deathscar. Just so you know, my keyboard habitually gets stuck in 'sarcasm' mode .

Thanks for the warm welcome folks.

The way I saw it, the rest were bowing down to Pippin and Merry, because they had as much to owe to them (for reasons you mentioned) and for the fact that this tiny race of hobbits ("they would only be children to your eyes") were so courageous and brave and "had stout hearts" and changed the world for a better course.

Whereas the race of men needed encouraging from the Return of the King.

I thought it was a nice touch personally, and definitely though it was something the book would've been better with.

I also personally didn't like the Scourging of the Shire in the book, and was glad PJ left it out.

The voice over by Frodo at the end (upon his return to the Shire) is also spine-tingling, the bit where he starts off "How do you pick up the threads of an old life...".


I will agree with you however, when you say the bed-happy scene was completely overdone.

[ninja91]

I cant stand when Eowyn screams during the charge of the Rohirrim during the battle of Pelennor Fields. The scene is one of the most powerful in the movie, but then it is ruined by Eowyn's dorky battle cry.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by ninja91

I cant stand when Eowyn screams during the charge of the Rohirrim during the battle of Pelennor Fields. The scene is one of the most powerful in the movie, but then it is ruined by Eowyn's dorky battle cry.

WHAT?! I must vehemently 100% disagree with you. That is one of my favorite parts! Eowyn and Merry's cry add to the emotion! Everyone has thier own opinion, but I never thought I'd see somebody say that.

Back to the topic though, I think Merry and Pippin deserve just as much bowing as Frodo and Sam! As a previous poster noted, Merry helped kill one of Mordor's most opposing forces in The Witch-King, Pippin saved Faramir, and both aided in the rousing of the Ents, as well as outsmarting the band of Orcs that had captured them long enough for the Rohirrim to come in and do their thing. They didn't go to Mt. Doom, but they still deserve to be bowed to.

[Formendacil]

Allow me to courteously disagree with all the agreers here... and to agree with Anguirel. I hate that scene... almost as much as the "bedroom" (to put an inappropiate innuendo on it) scene. It feels, as Anguirel said, rather "superfluous, anakronistic, and pseudo-democratic". None of which is complimentary, by the way.

On the other hand, I have to agree with MatthewM that Eowyn and Merry's battle-cry agrees with me... Generally, when going into battle, a battle-cry is to be expected.

Though precisely what it has to do with the bowing topic... I'm not sure.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I don't like the scene, but it is because I find it very unconvinsing. It seems fake! It is one of those scenes that are supposed to be realy touching, but all it does for me is make me want to vomit.

[MatthewM]

Just to add, I actually liked the scene. I thought it was moving and showed full development of friendship between the hobbits and Aragorn.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I just want to add, that I like the intend of the scene, but I just don't think that they make it work.

[MatthewM]

I think it works, but everyone is going to have their own opinion. I love the whole coronation scene.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

It's a beautiful moment, capped perfectly by Howard Shore's score stringing the Shire theme. I don't cry at movies, but that's the first time ever where I wanted to.

I agree that Merry and Pippin shouldn't be placed on the same level as Frodo and Sam, but you have to admit that, in both the book and the movie, the Quest likely would have failed without them. Or at the least, Minas Tirith would have fallen. But that's another thread for another time.

[Gurthang]

Well, I rather liked the scene. Actually, I liked it quite a bit. Except for Pippin's face. I always laugh at that, because it's the funniest possible face for that serious moment. Which means it's rather out of place in the scene.

But I really liked the scene, mainly because it shows that Aragorn, who had just been crowned King, was still the noble, humble person they had come to know. I think it fits better with his character to give credit to others when it is due. He himself did deserve a lot of credit, which he received (he was just crowned King after all!), but he makes sure that the other key players are not left out.

The fact that Merry and Pippin are left in the shot was good, too. It says to me that, even though they were forced apart and went down different paths, they (the four) are still the closest friends through it all. Very touching indeed.

Also, I think it's very fitting that the hobbits get their moment to "stand above" everyone else before "shrinking" back into memory and legend.

[Sir Kohran]

Originally Posted by Gurthang

Well, I rather liked the scene. Actually, I liked it quite a bit. Except for Pippin's face. I always laugh at that, because it's the funniest possible face for that serious moment. Which means it's rather out of place in the scene.

But I really liked the scene, mainly because it shows that Aragorn, who had just been crowned King, was still the noble, humble person they had come to know. I think it fits better with his character to give credit to others when it is due. He himself did deserve a lot of credit, which he received (he was just crowned King after all!), but he makes sure that the other key players are not left out.

The fact that Merry and Pippin are left in the shot was good, too. It says to me that, even though they were forced apart and went down different paths, they (the four) are still the closest friends through it all. Very touching indeed.

Also, I think it's very fitting that the hobbits get their moment to "stand above" everyone else before "shrinking" back into memory and legend.

Excellent thoughts there, Gurthang.

I like your words on how Aragorn makes sure everyone gets credit - it ties in with his speech: 'This day does not belong to one Man, but to all...' Good to see that Jackson got a message like that across.

And yes, this is a fantastic moment in the film - alongside Gandalf's speech on death to Pippin during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and Frodo and Sam's nostalgic remembrance of the Shire after the Ring is destroyed, it's the most emotional part of ROTK for me. We spend so much of the time in awe at Aragorn's heroics, Legolas's stunts, Gimli's bufoonery, Arwen's looks, etc. that to see them all bow before the real heroes - the modest Hobbits we began with - is really an excellent reminder of who has accomplished most in this story.

[Beanamir of Gondor]

A reason I liked this scene was because I also felt a little bit of Sam's "great stories", sort of like in Book!RotK, with "Nine-Fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom". At the end of Movie!TTT, Sam and Frodo were talking about the legends, the "great stories", of the hobbits, and the possibility of them being in those stories someday. Then, in the RotK "You bow to no man" scene, I saw awe in Sam's face, because he knew that he would be a legend to Men and Hobbits.

P.S. Yes, Anguirel, that bedroom scene felt squirmingly like... um... fanfic.

[MatthewM]

Just to let you all know, not like it would shift any opinions, but Sean Astin himself said today that this part makes him cry most.

[Anguirel]

Excellent. All the more reason to lambast it!

[Diamond18]

That bit seemed overly corny to me. I don't necessarily dislike it, but it did seem like a rather "Hallmark" thing for Aragorn to say. Maybe it was just Viggo Mortenson's delivery.

Originally Posted by Gurthang

Well, I rather liked the scene. Actually, I liked it quite a bit. Except for Pippin's face. I always laugh at that, because it's the funniest possible face for that serious moment. Which means it's rather out of place in the scene.

Actually, I thought the hobbit's expressions were the best part about the scene. They were all so in character.

(This can be roughly translated into -- "Darest thou to speak ill of my lord Peregrin? Avast, ye scurvy fool of a knave! Take it back, take it back, I say!")

PS -- Welcome, Deathscar. And just so you know, Ang is fanatically opposed to Sam and even wrote this about him. That should clear some things up.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think that the thing I realy dislike about the scene, is that it seems like one of those honny-sweet endings that I despise Hollywood for! Way to many endings has to be oh so touching, a disney moment if you like. . . I have seen many a film wich I find very good until the last 10-30 min. Then they just turn into this: The good always prevail and our heroe must have a happy ending theme and it annoys me alot. I don't dislike happy endings, but they are not a must.

I know that this scene is not the real ending, but it is when the major plot is over and you just need to finnish and pick up the last loose ends. The scene seems like a vulgar attempt to rise emotions within the audience, emotions that should be easy to get with more subtle methods.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Excellent. All the more reason to lambast it!

Someone is sour and afraid to admit they like the scene...

[Essex]

Back after a break.....

Just to remind those who may have forgotten, but this scene (one of my favoruites in the whole trilogy and made me burst into tears) is loosely based on Aragorn kneeling to the Hobbits at Cormallen.

And so the red blood blushing in their faces and their eyes shining with wonder, Frodo and Sam went forward and saw that amidst the clamorous host were set three high-seats built of green turves. Behind the seat upon the right floated, white on green, a great horse running free; upon the left was a banner, silver upon blue, a ship swan-prowed faring on the sea; but behind the highest throne in the midst of all a great standard was spread in the breeze, and there a white tree flowered upon a sable field beneath a shining crown and seven glittering stars. On the throne sat a mail-clad man, a great sword was laid across his knees, but he wore no helm. As they drew near he rose. And then they knew him, changed as he was, so high and glad of face, kingly, lord of Men, dark-haired with eyes of grey.
Frodo ran to meet him, and Sam followed close behind. 'Well, if that isn't the crown of all!' he said. 'Strider, or I'm still asleep!'
'Yes, Sam, Strider,' said Aragorn. 'It is a long way, is it not, from Bree, where you did not like the look of me? A long way for us all but yours has been the darkest road.'
And then to Sam's surprise and utter confusion he bowed his knee before them; and taking them by the hand, Frodo upon his right and Sam upon his left, he led them to the throne, and setting them upon it, he turned to the men and captains who stood by and spoke, so that his voice rang over all the host, crying:
'Praise them with great praise!'

So Jackson's take on it is not much different - I admit Merry and Pippin should not be included to make the scene closer to the book, but I can live with that.

So to say it is superfluous or honey sweet then we must include Tolkien's work itself in this criticism.....

This scene in the book is one of my favourites - that a king will bow down before two 'lowly' hobbits (and actually seat them on his throne!!!!) shows the mark of the man, and his heartfelt gratitude to his friends. I gush with pride for Frodo and Sam when I read this scene every time. And I was so glad that Jackson paid homage to it in his scene, which was beautifully done.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Essex

So to say it is superfluous or honey sweet then we must include Tolkien's work itself in this criticism.....

Not necesarily. You can watch a scene from a movie, who is identical to what is written in a book and still they have a very different influence on you. . .
When reading the passage you highligted, I did not feel it was to honey sweet, but it did not move me either. Still when I see that "bowing scene" I think it is awful. . .

[Essex]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

When reading the passage you highligted, I did not feel it was to honey sweet, but it did not move me either.

Then I must pity you as you sound like not much could "move" you then!

The "common man" has succeeded and saved the World. We have lived and breathed through thick and thin with these characters, esp. Frodo and Sam - we've gone to the brink of Death and Disaster with them - We stood by Frodo at the Cracks of Doom as he nearly threw the Quest away - but his compassion for Gollum redeemed him and they saved Middle-earth in the end.....

Now we move onto the field of Cormallen. Our protagonists have completed their quest - they find their kindred and friends alive, and are greeted by a friend who is now King of all the Western lands and he bows to them and orders all his kindred to Praise them.

This seems very moving to me...............


PS let's compare the two scenes in a nutshell

Movie - "My friends, you bow to no-one" and Aragorn and all Kneel down

Book - "Praise them with great praise" as Aragorn Kneels and sits them on his throne.

They seem very simillar to me - one works well on paper and the other on celluloid. Neither seems crass or honey sweet to me. What I'm saying is that if one criticises the movie, one must criticise the novel too.......

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Essex

What I'm saying is that if one criticises the movie, one must criticise the novel too.......

and i disagree. . . It is not everything that works well in writing that automaticaly works well in a movie. So when I criticise a movie, that does not mean that I criticies the book.

[calandil]

it was a nice touch t the whole things,imagine these blokes who have never been out of the shire before being respected by all the lords and ladies of middle-earth

[Lalaith]

Praising the Ringbearers with great praise is fine. Bowing to all four hobbits is not. Pippin and Merry were vital members of the Fellowship, yes, but so was Aragorn himself, and the rest of them. Carrying the One Ring was a particular, specific and unique burden, and it was for that Frodo and Sam were being singled out and honoured.

But the bed-scene was far worse, makes any sensible adult viewer want to stare at their feet with embarrassment. Mostly because of the expression on Elijah Wood's face: he is not a good enough actor to carry off such a potentially ludicrous situation with any sense of innocence or dignity.

[Essex]

I think Elijah's acting was excellent.

And yes the bed scene was a bit 'schmultsy' - but I think its a fair eonough scene for Frodo - he thought most of his friends were dead, so why can't he be happy? And the look between Frodo and Sam was beautiful.

Across the whole trilogy, jackson has got his actors giving so much, just by a look and an expression - he really got as much as possible out of the characters in this way, and all (in my opinion) did a really good job.

[Rikae]

Essex, I'm glad you mentioned the scene from the book. I knew there was something similar, but I couldn't remember what.
I'll have to forego the elevated status that cynicism gives & admit that I loved the bowing scene, and yes, I even got teary-eyed the first time I watched it. I hate superfluous "feel good" scenes as much as anyone, but I can't count this scene among them. I suppose much of the credit for that goes not to Jackson, but to Tolkien for crafting the story which led up to it. The scene is not (in my opinion) over-the-top because the pain and darkness that precede it are so intense, and after following Sam & Frodo on such a harrowing journey the honor seems, if anything, less than what they deserve. At the same time, knowing how humble the hobbits have always been it's obvious that they don't see it that way. Still, I can't really understand the inclusion of Merry and Pippin either, but it somehow felt right to see them standing with Frodo & Sam.

As for the bedroom scene...
I saw a video clip of it before actually watching the movie, and I thought it was a spoof. Slow motion? Gandalf cackling like a maniac? The unavoidable "orgy" analogy? I can't imagine what possessed PJ...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Rikae

As for the bedroom scene...
I saw a video clip of it before actually watching the movie, and I thought it was a spoof. Slow motion? Gandalf cackling like a maniac? The unavoidable "orgy" analogy? I can't imagine what possessed PJ...

Have you seen some of PJ's previous movies?

I think we should count our self lucky, with this being one of the worst scenes in the movie. . .

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Have you seen some of PJ's previous movies?

I think we should count our self lucky, with this being one of the worst scenes in the movie. . .

Good point ...
The fellowship could have entered the room by emerging from the worst possible part of a cave-troll, brandishing chainsaws.

[ArathorofBarahir]

I loved this addition to the movie! I feel that the hobbits would and could have been overlooked since not very many people knew what their mission was. I felt that that having Aragorn and all of Minas Tirith bowing to them was a way of saying that the little people of the world have sacrificed just as much if not more as the big people in the world.

[Celegost]

I think this is a really good scene, unlike the one where Frodo is in bed. That's just too wierd (what the heck are Merry and Pippin doing in the background? They start jumping up and down and pulling faces like idiots; I thought at the end they were supposed to have grown up?)

[Sauron the White]

Thought the bowing scene at the coronation was fine and worked well. It is not one of my absolute fave scenes - but I certainly have no objections to it. Thanks to Essex for giving us the text to show that Jackson was not far off with his depiction of it.

That jumping into the bed scene at the end always struck me as just plain goofy. Perhaps Jackson and the writers wanted to introduce some goofiness into the mix after all that heavy drama with putting the main characters near death for so long. But its still goofy.

[Precioussss]

I agree with ninja91 in that Eowyn and the battle cry thing was dorky. I actually laughed a little.

In the book it's really sweet how Sam and Frodo meet Merry and Pippin at the supper, and I think that should have been included in the movie. The bedroom scene was a little much.

And even though Aragorn's last line may suit (I still think it's a little lame) the hobbits (along with everyone else) should still be bowing to him. He is the king, and without him they would most certainly have been dead and Sauron would have won.

That's just my opinion. I was disappointed in this movie, so I guess I'm a litttle biased already.

[Sir Kohran]

And even though Aragorn's last line may suit (I still think it's a little lame) the hobbits (along with everyone else) should still be bowing to him. He is the king, and without him they would most certainly have been dead and Sauron would have won.

Um...they did bow to him when he first approached them. That's when he says "My friends, you bow to no-one." And bows himself.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Sir Kohran

Um...they did bow to him when he first approached them. That's when he says "My friends, you bow to no-one." And bows himself.

hahaha

[Elfchick7]

I liked that scene. I felt that the hobbits expressions were great b/c it was clear that they were very unused to that sort of attention. Also it demonstrated Aragorn's humility. Could there have been a better way to achieve the same end? Probably but I did not find this scene horribly out of place at all.

I did however notice that Merry and Pippin's height change was not noticeable AT ALL. Apparently, Hollywood entwash wear off.

As for the bedroom scene...*sigh* It was really out of place. A good bit of the end of ROTK felt choppy and out of place. Not to mention that the bedroom scene felt remarkably like deja vu. (FOTR, Rivendell, similar scene)

[Isabellkya]

I liked that scene.. however it was extremely typical, and almost borderline cheesy. If I had seen the movies with no prior knowledge of the books, I still would've seen it coming.