Old elves still alive

[Baran]

How many of the elves who awoke in the east are still alive (have not died and reincarnated)? Is there more old elf women alive since they didn't fight in all the wars?

[Baran]

"Still alive" means at the end of the third age... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[The Fifth]

Cirdan is a v. v. old elf that is still alive.

[mark12_30]

Most of the ones that awoke at Cuivienen and are still alive dwell in Valinor; but very few, are listed in Middle-Earth. Galadriel is, as they say in my town, "Older than dirt" :-), one of the oldest elves in ME, but she did not awake at Cuivienen. She was the daughter of the son of Finwe, who did awaken at Cuivienen. The Silmarillion talkws about a lot of this.

[Aldagrim Proudfoot]

I think most of them either stayed in Aman or were not mentioned.

[Orofacion of the Vanyar]

...Finwe, who did awaken at Cuivienen.

That's actually an assumption. I thought that Finwe, Elwe, Ingwe, etc... awoke at Cuivenen too, but found out otherwise. Tolkien never actually states these elves were the first, just the representatives of their people. Looking at the time it took the elves to be discovered and then actually make the journey west, it is very conceavable that all the "we's" could have been born on the way. Just a little info-pop.

There's no way of knowing how many were still alive.

[burrahobbit]

I don't know about the other kings, but Elwe and Olwe certainly did not awake at Cuivienen. Brothers have to have parents. Olwe never died, but he left Middle-Earth like right away.

[Anorien]

What do you guys mean awaken? Were they asleep or something? or were they born?? i'm confused!

[*Varda*]

<font color=white> Where exactly is Cuievenen (sp?). I've always been a bit confused about this.

~*Varda Elentari*~

[Orofacion of the Vanyar]

What do you guys mean awaken? Were they asleep or something? or were they born?

Tolkien says the elves awoke beside the sea of Helcar at a place called Cuivenen. These were the very first elves, the ancestors of everyone from Elrond, to Galadriel, to Cirdan and Gil-galad. Though I do not know how to describe their awakening, perhaps someone can find a passage hidden in one of the HoME books that tells more about it.

I always say it like this. The body, or hroa, was already made by Eru, and were placed at Cuivenen awaiting their spirit, or fea. This resembles the dwarf's awakening.

In the Silmarillion, Eru placed Aule's dwarves under the mountains to await the coming of the elves (the elves had to preceed because they were Eru's Firstborn). Think of it as "suspended animation" if you will. I believe the elves were treated in a similar manner.

An analogy for the elves awakening, as I see it, would be the same as the christian belief in the origins of life, more so the Adam than the Eve. God created the body of man out of dust and then breathed life into him, put a spirit into a shell. Of course, female elves were not created from the ribs of the males, they were created in a likewise manner. This is my view, so don't take it to heart.

Where exactly is Cuievenen?

Far away in the east of Middle Earth. It's practically on the other side of the continent, hundreds if not thousands of miles away from the furthest eastern place on the maps of Middle Earth. There used to be a massive inland sea called the Helcar that took up a great deal of space in Midde Earth, infact, it is believed that all of Mordor and the sea of Rhun are what is left of the Helcar. In other words, Mordor possibly used to be underwater.

Men awoke in the same area as Cuivenen in Hildorien, both under the Red Mountains, the last mountain chain of the continent of Middle Earth. This land is extremely far away.

[ July 09, 2002: Message edited by: Orofacion of the Vanyar ]