Dons and Dragons - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalwendë · 05-17-2006, 04:11 AM

Here's an interesting programme on Radio 4 tomorrow morning - Thursday 18th at 11.30am. Also repeated on Monday at 0.15 (technically Sunday night).

Quote:

Some of the best known children's books of the last 150 years were dreamt up in Oxford - Alice in Wonderland, Lord of the Rings, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, and His Dark Materials.

Michael Rosen is joined by Phillip Pullman, Jonathan Miller and AN Wilson as he explores the nooks and crannies of medieval buildings, rifles through dusty papers and climbs into hidden hide-aways to try to explain a conundrum: why has the city of Oxford produced some of the world's most famous fantasy writers for children?

We have Radio 4 streamed through our PCs at work, so I might see if I can have a listen tomorrow morning.

Anguirel · 05-17-2006, 06:48 AM

For a chap who professes to detest Tolkien and Lewis, Pullman spends an awful lot of time talking about them.

AN Wilson is also an interesting inclusion. I've never quite been able to tell whether he's just a ubiquitous hack or a closet Tolkien expert. Either way, I expect some wit and quality from him...

Sadly I'm doing my Italian Oral at the exact time of the programme...

Mithalwen · 05-17-2006, 11:20 AM

May I remind everyone of the excellent "listen again" aspect of Radio 4? It will be available for a week after broadcast to everyone with internet access - here or hereabouts....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml

Lalwendë · 05-18-2006, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

May I remind everyone of the excellent "listen again" aspect of Radio 4? It will be available for a week after broadcast to everyone with internet access - here or hereabouts....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml

I hope it will be! The connection was dodgy on my PC so a lot of it sounded like Daleks and I'd like to hear it again. But it was well worth hearing! No snootiness thankfully (didn't think there would be with Michael Rosen, the old hippy

), and plenty of food for thought.

The programme pondered whether Oxford with its old buildings presented an invitation to wonder with mysterious doorways and the unchanging atmosphere (though I wondered about this, as Oxford has its fair share of modern intrusions!). Other possibilities as to Why Oxford included the sense of ritual entrenched in collegiate life and the sense of seclusion brought on by it (particularly for bachelors, which Tolkien was most definitely not). It was also mentioned that it could simply be that at Oxford arcane topics such as Anglo-saxon might be studied and it is easier to find like-minded people.

It seems Oxford halls have had an influence too, with the architecture and a 'monastic' sense. Though at Balliol where the students trample across the tables in order to rise from their meal I didn't get a sense of the monastic, more of bravado.

Bêthberry · 05-18-2006, 07:25 AM

But doesn't Cambridge have a similar architecture? I know it has a different academic tradition--chairs of Mathematics and all--but it too has famously medieval architecture. I would wonder if this idea wouldn't put fantasy squarely in the realm of nostalgic escapism (not that I'm saying it is, mind you, just wondering at some of the implications).

And, while Tolkien was married, he certainly pursued a rigorous round of hearty male gatherings. Oxford is a bastion of singlehood still. I have a friend who won a research scholarship there for a year. She brought her two children--she's a single mum--and was told that it was a pity she brought them as otherwise she would have been given room in a residence. So she had to find accommodation she could afford--the other side of the town. Made for a lot of extra commuting and really dipped into her small finances.

Mithalwen · 05-18-2006, 01:28 PM

Well apart from a lingering affection for Rupert Brooke, Cambridge doesn't figure much on my Radar (though I suppose I should go there someday - my family is somewhat Oxford-centric for various reasons though more Town than Gown).

However I would suggest that Oxford is more connected to the real world in that at Cambridge town is far more dependent on the Gown than at Oxford where the University is effectively the historic quarter of Cowley

And it is listen again but this computer doesn't have the right software ...

Lalwendë · 05-18-2006, 01:44 PM

Yep, it is on listen again because I just did. Listen again, that is. And it did not sound like daleks this time. Must have been, erm, the white heat of policy making that was affecting the network at work.

Cambridge has produced some very different writers, less inclined to fantasy. I'm thinking here of Ted Hughes and Sylvia Plath! I've read more than a few articles which argue that the cold, damp and foggy atmosphere of Cambridge was an influence on them, though I think other landscapes were much more influential, the moors above Hebden Bridge and Cape Cod for example. Likewise, I think Tolkien was more influenced by the loss of his boyhood landscape and by places like Bowland and the Downs, if we are thinking in terms of landscape.

I would not underestimate the rigorous intellectual atmosphere of life as an Oxbridge don though. All academia is very competitive, but the nature of the short terms at Oxbridge compresses that atmosphere even more.

I think there is definitely something in the idea that it is the history of Oxfrod which has stimulated imaginations. In terms of the sense of history evoked by a place, I wonder if places such as York or Lincoln have stimulated fantastic (not necessarily fantasy) writing/art? The atmosphere of Whitby certainly prompted Bram Stoker to conjour up Dracula and it has stirred other writers since then - and while standing on Tate Hill pier with a storm brewing you do start looking for black dogs!

Mithalwen · 05-18-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Cambridge has produced some very different writers, less inclined to fantasy. I'm thinking here of Ted Hughes and Sylvia Plath! !

Oh surely Cambridge just does Actors and spies....

05-17-2006, 06:48 AM	#2
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	For a chap who professes to detest Tolkien and Lewis, Pullman spends an awful lot of time talking about them. AN Wilson is also an interesting inclusion. I've never quite been able to tell whether he's just a ubiquitous hack or a closet Tolkien expert. Either way, I expect some wit and quality from him... Sadly I'm doing my Italian Oral at the exact time of the programme... __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

05-17-2006, 11:20 AM	#3
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	May I remind everyone of the excellent "listen again" aspect of Radio 4? It will be available for a week after broadcast to everyone with internet access - here or hereabouts.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

05-18-2006, 07:25 AM	#5
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	But doesn't Cambridge have a similar architecture? I know it has a different academic tradition--chairs of Mathematics and all--but it too has famously medieval architecture. I would wonder if this idea wouldn't put fantasy squarely in the realm of nostalgic escapism (not that I'm saying it is, mind you, just wondering at some of the implications). And, while Tolkien was married, he certainly pursued a rigorous round of hearty male gatherings. Oxford is a bastion of singlehood still. I have a friend who won a research scholarship there for a year. She brought her two children--she's a single mum--and was told that it was a pity she brought them as otherwise she would have been given room in a residence. So she had to find accommodation she could afford--the other side of the town. Made for a lot of extra commuting and really dipped into her small finances. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

05-18-2006, 01:28 PM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Well apart from a lingering affection for Rupert Brooke, Cambridge doesn't figure much on my Radar (though I suppose I should go there someday - my family is somewhat Oxford-centric for various reasons though more Town than Gown). However I would suggest that Oxford is more connected to the real world in that at Cambridge town is far more dependent on the Gown than at Oxford where the University is effectively the historic quarter of Cowley And it is listen again but this computer doesn't have the right software ... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

05-18-2006, 01:44 PM	#7
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Yep, it is on listen again because I just did. Listen again, that is. And it did not sound like daleks this time. Must have been, erm, the white heat of policy making that was affecting the network at work. Cambridge has produced some very different writers, less inclined to fantasy. I'm thinking here of Ted Hughes and Sylvia Plath! I've read more than a few articles which argue that the cold, damp and foggy atmosphere of Cambridge was an influence on them, though I think other landscapes were much more influential, the moors above Hebden Bridge and Cape Cod for example. Likewise, I think Tolkien was more influenced by the loss of his boyhood landscape and by places like Bowland and the Downs, if we are thinking in terms of landscape. I would not underestimate the rigorous intellectual atmosphere of life as an Oxbridge don though. All academia is very competitive, but the nature of the short terms at Oxbridge compresses that atmosphere even more. I think there is definitely something in the idea that it is the history of Oxfrod which has stimulated imaginations. In terms of the sense of history evoked by a place, I wonder if places such as York or Lincoln have stimulated fantastic (not necessarily fantasy) writing/art? The atmosphere of Whitby certainly prompted Bram Stoker to conjour up Dracula and it has stirred other writers since then - and while standing on Tate Hill pier with a storm brewing you do start looking for black dogs! __________________ Gordon's alive!