Queen Beruthiel's fate? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tuor in Gondolin · 02-18-2006, 10:26 AM

I believe in "Letters" (although it could be elsewhere)
JRRT says that Queen Beruthiel was finally cast adrift
with her cats. While it's just speculation, one ending
of them could be that they perished at sea (I think I assumed
that was their fate, but there are other possibilities,
such as she sailed the craft) (being a smart- if evil- Numenorean
woman) to south Gondor or Harad and met up with
the Black Numenoreans, and she and/or her
descendants were responsible for attacks on Gondor.
It would seem, for those skilled in such things, a possible
basis for a rpg at least. Any speculations on her fate?

Anguirel · 02-18-2006, 10:30 AM

A very talented and cat-loving fanfic writer called Werecat (I think) wrote one version I saw where she perished but the cats were permitted to enter Valinor...very sensible of Varda. Life must be boring at Taniquetil without cats...

Tuor in Gondolin · 02-18-2006, 10:37 AM

Anguirel:

Quote:

A very talented and cat-loving fanfic writer called Werecat (I think) wrote one version I saw where she perished but the cats were permitted to enter Valinor...very sensible of Varda. Life must be boring at Taniquetil without cats...

Yes, but did they get along with Huan?

Selmo · 02-20-2006, 05:51 AM

I believe that Queen Beruthiel and her cats statrted out as just a Gondorian childrens' fairy tale.

Perhaps Tolkien made a mistake in elevating her to a "real" person. The story doesn't seem to fit with the attitude of the Gondorian people after they lost contact with the Elves, as shown by Faramir's words when he gave gifts to Frodo and Sam when he set them free.
.

Anguirel · 02-20-2006, 02:29 PM

On the contrary. It shows Gondor's parochialism and pettiness interestingly, though I think probably unintentionally. Faramir was far from a typical Gondorian.

Lalwendë · 02-20-2006, 03:08 PM

I don't know if Tolkien realised it, in fact I don't know if he even read it, but Beruthiel and her cats are very reminiscent of a character in Gormenghast, the fabulous Countess Groan, or Gertrude. She is renowned for her distaste for other people, and in contrast, for the love which she bestows on her white cats (and her birds, too). I think Flay or Steerpike at one point is suspicious that the cats are spies; Steerpike in fact exploits Gertrude's love for her cats in seeking to have Flay punished.

I often wonder if the tale was left as a footnote as Tolkien had read Gormenghast and decided to shelve the idea?

I can well imagine that Gondor and Minas Tirith in particular at the time of Beruthiel was awash with ritual and politics, just as Gormenghast is. Perhaps Beruthiel was not the only one who had spies. I like to think she got to land again and found some allies as she seems, from what little we know, to have been a cunning woman. Married to one of the Ship-Kings, I can imagine she was left alone for a great amount of time while he went sailing.

02-18-2006, 10:26 AM	#1
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Queen Beruthiel's fate? I believe in "Letters" (although it could be elsewhere) JRRT says that Queen Beruthiel was finally cast adrift with her cats. While it's just speculation, one ending of them could be that they perished at sea (I think I assumed that was their fate, but there are other possibilities, such as she sailed the craft) (being a smart- if evil- Numenorean woman) to south Gondor or Harad and met up with the Black Numenoreans, and she and/or her descendants were responsible for attacks on Gondor. It would seem, for those skilled in such things, a possible basis for a rpg at least. Any speculations on her fate? __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' Last edited by Tuor in Gondolin; 02-18-2006 at 10:34 AM. Reason: add an icon to title

02-18-2006, 10:30 AM	#2
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	A very talented and cat-loving fanfic writer called Werecat (I think) wrote one version I saw where she perished but the cats were permitted to enter Valinor...very sensible of Varda. Life must be boring at Taniquetil without cats... __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

02-20-2006, 02:29 PM	#5
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	On the contrary. It shows Gondor's parochialism and pettiness interestingly, though I think probably unintentionally. Faramir was far from a typical Gondorian. __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

02-20-2006, 03:08 PM	#6
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	I don't know if Tolkien realised it, in fact I don't know if he even read it, but Beruthiel and her cats are very reminiscent of a character in Gormenghast, the fabulous Countess Groan, or Gertrude. She is renowned for her distaste for other people, and in contrast, for the love which she bestows on her white cats (and her birds, too). I think Flay or Steerpike at one point is suspicious that the cats are spies; Steerpike in fact exploits Gertrude's love for her cats in seeking to have Flay punished. I often wonder if the tale was left as a footnote as Tolkien had read Gormenghast and decided to shelve the idea? I can well imagine that Gondor and Minas Tirith in particular at the time of Beruthiel was awash with ritual and politics, just as Gormenghast is. Perhaps Beruthiel was not the only one who had spies. I like to think she got to land again and found some allies as she seems, from what little we know, to have been a cunning woman. Married to one of the Ship-Kings, I can imagine she was left alone for a great amount of time while he went sailing. __________________ Gordon's alive!

02-20-2006, 05:51 AM	#4
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	I believe that Queen Beruthiel and her cats statrted out as just a Gondorian childrens' fairy tale. Perhaps Tolkien made a mistake in elevating her to a "real" person. The story doesn't seem to fit with the attitude of the Gondorian people after they lost contact with the Elves, as shown by Faramir's words when he gave gifts to Frodo and Sam when he set them free. .