Public Reseach: Race (Slavs and other Vikings, Varangians, and Sarmatians)

[HerenIstarion]

Part of Public Research Project

Since the previous Race poll was more or less general, and since the sheer number of 'white' entry there exceeds 90% of the whole at the moment, and since many of the voters has shown great impatience, I'm coming out with the more detailed survey on the subject sooner than I've planned. But here you are - following public lead, I'm inquiring upon detalisation of constituents of 'white' race as present on the board

Here are guidelines (form wikipedia):

The term Caucasian race is used almost exclusively in the United States to refer to people whose ancestry can be traced back to Europe, North Africa, West Asia, South Asia and parts of Central Asia. It was once considered a useful taxonomical categorization of human racial groups based on a presumed common geographic and/or linguistic origin.

In the United States, it is currently used primarily as a distinction loosely based on skin color alone for a group commonly refered to as Whites, as defined by the American government and census bureau. In the British Isles, "Caucasian" follows the North American definition, but in continental Europe, "Caucasian" currently refers almost exclusively to people who are from the Caucasus.

The term itself derives from measurements in craniology from the 19th century, and its name stems from the region of the Caucasus mountains, itself imagined to be the location from which Noah's son Japheth, traditional Biblical ancestor of the Europeans, established his tribe prior to its supposed migration into Europe.

Caucasoid is a term used in physical anthropology to refer to people falling within a certain range of anthropometric measurements.

And also:

Physical anthropology defines Caucasoid with a pattern of physical traits typical of humans indigenous to an area centered on Europe, the Mediterranean, West Asia and South Asia. Populations near the edge of this area in North Africa show features transitional between Caucasoid and Negroid, while much of Central Asia shows features transitional between Caucasoid and Mongoloid.

So, this we will follow, and the poll again will be more and less general. (West Asia being Middle East and Turkey and Iran, South Asia being India and Sri-Lanca and Pakistan etc, Central Asia being Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan Afghanistan, North Africa being Arabic/Berberic countries). Europe will be more extended than others, to provide for titular Varangians and others . South India is divided by countries rather than enthnicities, for these are too numerous to be listed in the poll.

Before putting up the poll itself, I would like you to review the proposed poll and express your opinion with regards to its accuracy. The poll itself will be put up next Monday (once agreement is reached) or later if need be. Bear in mind that the poll allows for 10 poll questions only, so the groupings (and their mess up) are largely made with regards to that limitation.

*North Europe (Scandinavian-Germanic-Uralic)
*West Europe (Roman-Germanic)
*West Europe (Roman-Celtic)
*East Europe (Slavic-Germanic)
*East Europe (Slavic-Uralic)
*Mediterranean (Greek-Roman-Arabic)
*North Africa (Arabic-Berberic)
*West Asia (Arabic-Jew-Persian-Turki)
*Central Asia (Persian-Turki)
*South Asia (per countries – India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Hymalayan States)

[JennyHallu]

Will it be a poll with one or several options available? As a racially mish-mashed American (and that disease is spreading as the world shrinks ), I could fall anywhere within the first three categories. OK, maybe not the first...but it's confuzzling.

[Lalwendë]

I'd suggest either ask folks to pinpoint the one option which they most closely identify with or allow the option of multiple boxes - and have a link there explaining what each grouping means too. In the UK we are a real mixed bag racially speaking. I for one could go for the first three categories having a mixture of native Briton, Welsh, Irish, Manx and, looking far back, probably Norwegian Viking blood, and like most English people probably a bit of Saxon too, maybe even some Norman (that's only if one of my ancestors got lucky and married someone posh ). I suppose it depends how far back you want to go, if we all went really far back we'd all be the same wouldn't we?

I'm confusing things as ever....

[JennyHallu]

Oh drat, forgot Norman. Sorry Lalwende, we were posh. Some of us, anyway. Castles and knighthood and schtuff. Wish we were posh now.

[HerenIstarion]

I suppose it depends how far back you want to go, if we all went really far back we'd all be the same wouldn't we

M-mm... some Australopithecuses present, you think?

To be serious, though, I will surely allow for multiple choices (even if only for myself, having German grand granny and Ukrainian grandfather on mother's side). I have forgotten about Caucasus (in geographical sense, that is) here, though. I suppose the altered entry for Mediterranean will look like Greek-Roman-Arabic-Caucasus

[Formendacil]

Those options look fairly comprehensive... but I'm looking for Germanic-Celtic, which is probably CLOSEST to the truth (for me). Otherwise, I'd probably pick Roman-Germanic...

[Alcarillo]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Those options look fairly comprehensive... but I'm looking for Germanic-Celtic, which is probably CLOSEST to the truth (for me). Otherwise, I'd probably pick Roman-Germanic...

I too would like a Germanic-Celtic option. Roman-Germanic is a bit of a stretch when it comes to my ancestry.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am back with my usual: You are all decendance of the vikings !

I would like to point out that it will most likely be Irish people who decend from Norwegian Vikings as this was their main recidens on the British Isles (and the Isle of Man). The Vikings in England was mainly frome Denmark, of course there must have been a great deal of Norwegians as well, but mainly danish.

Normaly it is devided like this:

Norwegian: Iceland, Greenland and Vinland
Danish: England and France
Swedish: Russia (east europe) and Byzantium
(very generalised)

With that said I will move on to the real reason I am posting

I just find it odd to make a big deal out of Normans as they are direct decendance of the Vikings. There is not a lot of generations between those vikings who was given Normandy and the Normans who invated England. They settled in 911 under the leadership of Hrolf Ganger and in 1066 they invaded England under the leadership of Willam II. Of course they have been mixed with the french, but come on.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I am back with my usual: You are all decendance of the vikings !

I would like to point out that it will most likely be Irish people who decend from Norwegian Vikings as this was their main recidens on the British Isles (and the Isle of Man). The Vikings in England was mainly frome Denmark, of course there must have been a great deal of Norwegians as well, but mainly danish.

The Norwegian Vikings of Dublin were expelled and they then went on to settle on the Lancashire coast, which at that time must have been an incredibly desolate place (it still is, if you mistakenly take a holiday at Pontins... ), marshy and low-lying. It was also close to the main route through to York, the Ribble, where some of the Vikings stashed their treasure, The Cuerdale Hoard. Irish Norwegians.

[Lalaith]

The poor Celts got dragged all over the place by the Vikings during the time of the Irish-Scottish settlement.
For example he genetic descent of Icelanders has recently been shown to be 30-40% Celt. Why? Because the Norwegian women, being wise, wouldn't go with their crazy men to this godforsaken island. So they had to sail to Scotland and Ireland and borrow some slavegirls from their cousins who had settled there....

[HerenIstarion]

As I see no serious objections to poll questions as suggested, and have no means of giving more detailed poll, I'm putting it up as listed in the initial post. Only entry #3 is altered to include Germanic alongside Roman and Celtic (for those voting for Germanic-Celtic )

Vote on

[Lush]

Rock on!

[Holbytlass]

The main ingredients to my mush pot is Italian, German, Welsh. I have no idea which to click. Help, please.

[littlemanpoet]

I'm 75% Frisian and 25% Dutch, to which some of you might say, "Just admit it, LMP, you're 100% Dutch!" Which would be true, except that Frisians have a rather exalted opinion about their own identity as compared to the rest of their Netherlandish compatriots. Now, I classed myself with the first group rather than the second, which may be considered to be debatable. But when you say Roman/Germanic, that leads me to think of French and Spanish, not Dutch. So I think I have to class myself with Germanic/Scandinavian.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Holbytlass

The main ingredients to my mush pot is Italian, German, Welsh. I have no idea which to click. Help, please.

You're Roman-Celtic-Germanic. .... Roman (Italian) - Celtic (Welsh) - Germanic (German). There ya go!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Mostly Germanic/Celtic equally from both sides of the channel, though my most immediate tie to the old country is my Grandfather (a German speaking Prussian), and I know of one forebearer who was from St Petersburg.

Oh yes, and of course one Canadian and a passel of Americans - whever they may be - to balance things out this side of the horizon…..

[Thinlómien]

If I'm Finnish, I'm North Europe, right?

EDIT: I think I am so I'll vote so.

[Aiwendil]

I'm Germanic, Celtic, Slavic, and Hebraic - so I voted West Europe, East Europe, and West Asian.

[Orominuialwen]

Ack, I have no idea what to select! I'm 3/8 Belarussian, 1/8 Hungarian, a tiny bit Russian (these last three are all Ashkenazi Jewish), ~1/3 Irish, 1/8 French, and very small percentages of English, German, Scottish, and Peoria Native American.

I'm so confused!

[Eönwë]

And what about other parts in Africa? Where do I put one of my many ticks

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Two years have past since I first posted in this thread and not until now have I cast my vote. . .weird!

[Brinniel]

I checked Western Europe (Roman-Germanic-Celtic) as that is where a large chunk of my heritage comes from. I've got a lot of English, Irish, and Scottish blood, as well as some German. If you wanted to go way back, maybe I could check off North Europe too, but I can only trace my ancestors to the 16th century, so that's as far as I will go.

Secondly, I checked off Mediterranean (only the second one to do so). I may only be 1/8 Greek, but that's where my great-grandfather came from and I'm quite proud of my Greek heritage.

[Laurinquë]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I'm 75% Frisian and 25% Dutch, to which some of you might say, "Just admit it, LMP, you're 100% Dutch!" Which would be true, except that Frisians have a rather exalted opinion about their own identity as compared to the rest of their Netherlandish compatriots. Now, I classed myself with the first group rather than the second, which may be considered to be debatable. But when you say Roman/Germanic, that leads me to think of French and Spanish, not Dutch. So I think I have to class myself with Germanic/Scandinavian.

Go Frisians!

I'm not Frisian, just Dutch, but I am also French, Albanian, Sicilian (Not Italian!) Irish, and who knows what else, probably some German and Arab.

As you can see I don't fit into any of the categories!

[Gwathagor]

I should probably vote Native American, but West Europe will have to do. I'm technically Sioux, but a French fur trapper and a couple Irish immigrants managed to get involved during the 1800's, so it's close enough, I suppose.