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11-27-2005, 11:57 AM | #1 | |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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LotR --- Appendix A: I, (i) - (iii) -- Númenor - Heirs of Isildur
Were you one of the readers who, like me, was disappointed that the story of LotR was over halfway through the RotK volume? Or did you jump into the Appendices and enjoy getting additional information there? It will be interesting to see how many people take enough interest to participate in the discussions of the Appendices.
Appendix A is a mini-Silmarillion, and for the first generation or so of readers, it was the only one they had. It tells the stories of Elves and Men in the First and Second Age, into the Third Age as well, giving vital background information that was not included in the actual story of the LotR. Perhaps Tolkien saw this as his chance to get at least the bare bones of his Legendarium published! However, there's not enough space for more than the basic facts. Are there parts of these passages that are important to you, or has the Silmarillion superceded them? One line about the Númenoreans jumped out at me upon rereading: Quote:
We have many names listed; that may be useful for research, if someone is writing a fan fiction or RPG, but do you skip them when reading? Geography is also an important part of this Appendix, with borders of kingdoms and lands being described. We have brief stories about the Witch-King of Angmar, the Dúnedain, and Celebrian, among others. Any comments? I hope this introduction is enough to spark a good discussion; these are not my favourite parts of the book, so I do beg your pardon if my own comments lack some of the enthusiasm I had during the story proper!
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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11-27-2005, 01:24 PM | #2 | |
Dead Serious
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Quote:
I'm too lazy to learn languages, or more than smatterings of them, but I love hearing them, and Tolkien's Elvish tongues are right up there with Latin and German as favourites to roll off my tongue. "Tar-Elendil, Tar-Meneldur, Tar-Aldarion..." "Elendil, Isildur, Valandil..." "Araphant, Arvedui, Aranarth..." As a great lover of background information, I love Appendix A. I love the history of the Dunedain, laid out over the course of the years, following the progression of their race from Elros to Elessar. There are just enough hints of the stories behind them to spark the imagination, but not so much as to make it a long, boring chronicle. Those unexplained daggers behind the names of the Dunedain Chieftains are perhaps more intriguing that the explained ones. As far as reading the Appendices regularly, I'll admit that I tend not to anymore, but that's mainly because I've come to know them fairly well, and their contents, once known, lack the entertainment element of the main story that is provided in reading and rereading the great tale and revelling in its fine craft.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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11-27-2005, 02:00 PM | #3 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Like Esty I’m not a big fan of the Appendices. There are certainlly some very interesting incidents recounted, but all in all, they are primarily for reference & background. Tolkien himself noted that the only really necessary sections for understandding the story are The Tale of Aragorn & Arwen & the Shire Calendar.
The story of Numenor was a relatively recent invention of Tolkien’s - the original mythology consisted only of the First Age. Yet the image of the great wave overwhelming the land was a recurring one for Tolkien (he gives it to Faramir in the book). The Downfall of Numenor is yet another story of pride leading to a fall. What begins as a reward for the Edain’s service in the fight against Morgoth ends with the most spectacularly devastating event in Middle-earth history - the very world itself is changed by the direct intervention of Eru. The originally flat world was made round. The strangest thing about this is that there are individuals around at the time of LotR who had lived in (on?) the flat earth. Its difficult not to feel that the whole Numenor thing was a major mistake on the part of the Valar. The longer life gifted to the Edain of Numenor is what, in the end, produced their rebellion. The fact that they had longer in the world made them desire it more & wish to remain. To situate it within sight of the Undying Lands, allow the Eldar to visit it, & yet forbid the Numenoreans to travel there was bound to lead to trouble ( the Undying Lands were like the Edenic Apple - pointed out to the inhabitants who are then left alone with their temptation - asking for trouble, one might say. The Numenorean’s rise seems inexorable, the ultimate challenge to Sauron inevitable. Their fleet & armies terrify Sauron’s armies & humiliate him. There is no mention of Sauron himself being daunted by the Numenorean’s. By the time he is captured & taken to Numenor, the Numenoreans are fallen so far that they are an easy prey. Its difficullt to know what he expected to happen to the Numenorean fleet that assaulted Valinor, but what actually happened probably came as a shock. Of course, as I said, all this is background, & not strictly necessary - the important information has already been conveyed in the story proper (The Shadow of the Past/Council of Elrond chapters) but it does add a sense of depth & of the feeling of a weight of history behind the events of the story. The story of the Kingdom of Arnor is one of fragmentation & infighting leading to weakness. The Witch king takes advantage of the situation to serve his master to devastating effect, & the result is the fall of the realm. I suppose the most interesting event in this section is the encounter of Arvedui with the Lossothclearly a people akin to the Innuit & (more likely, given Tolkien’s love of the Kalevala) the Lapps. The Lossoth themselves seem to be of the same kind as the Wild Men of Druadan forest, ‘primitive’ people living in wild places. They are very much in touch, & in harmony, with the natural world. We seem to have a situation very similar to the Homo Sapiens/Neanderthal one in our world. The oddest thing about this incident is the location. As Alex lewis pointed out in his article ‘The Icing on the Cape’ in Amon Hen 102, the Ice Bay of Forochel is only 250 miles north of Hobbiton. In the Shire the Hobbits grow both grapes & tobacco, both of which require a warm climate, yet less than 300 miles to the north we find arctic conditions - ice only just beginning to break in March (& that ice a long way out to sea). Lewis points out that this means the sea would be frozen solid for over six months of the year. Tolkien points out that the bitter colds of the realm of Morgoth ‘linger still in that region, though they lie hardly more than 100 leagues north of the Shire’. As Lewis points out ‘So from this one can see that even Tolkien considered the climactic conditions at Forochel anomalous.’ Lewis comes up with an interesting theory to account for the ice bound state of Forochel: Quote:
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“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 11-27-2005 at 02:04 PM. |
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11-29-2005, 11:38 AM | #4 |
Deadnight Chanter
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Brings things long forgotten back, this...
Appendices, upon a time, were a blessing for me. I was thirsty, nay, even greedy to lay my hands on them and I've only got a chance of reading appendices some years after I've read actual story itself, since first USSR tranlsation was published without appendices at all. Appendices I've got as a 'samizdat' (USSR term, referred to forbidden or otherwise unavailable literature which was copied on a typewriter and distributed in secret from hand to hand) translation. It came to me in a much beaten leather portfolio through long line of acquaintances, third cousins once removed, friends' neighbours, 'woman who sells me greens' and 'girl I know in my school', part typed and part copied with a copier, with fingerprints of my longreaders before me. Also, I was sworn (almost on my own blood) I would return them in three days and would not try to misappropriate them whatever desire One Appendix To Rule Them All may evoke in my frail soul.
I certainly remember thirsting for more, with more detail, with more plot, with more more. And I've read them several times in a row, four, if my memory is not failing me. But than, the suspense was built up over time and fey mood was upon me. Now, as I have bookshelf full of HoME's, UT's and Silmarillions in multitude of editions, cold morn is come and I'm not likely to go beyond Sam's 'I'm back' in my rereadings.
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Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! |
11-29-2005, 04:21 PM | #5 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: commonplace city
Posts: 518
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Yea Heren, at the time the appendixes were all we had. This is where the Depth dwelt. Lots of referring to maps. It is interesting to see where the author was going. Like much of our own history, a lot of it was lists of Important names, and maps. genious effect
things that stuck on me from A,I, II,III the importance of Umbar, and how Sauron remembered the place where his humility was brought to him. the history of Arnor and the Witchking. Also the involvement of the Shire folk. The "carts without wheels" is funny. It is interesting that, despite the detail, there is little mention of these folk in LOTR, as their southern cousins got a whole chapter in RoTK (well distant cousins to the Wild men). the northern palantiri Quote:
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12-01-2005, 04:10 PM | #6 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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I am one of those strange people who enjoys reading the Appendices. I like factual books - and the more strictly factual the better, as shown by my determination a few years ago to learn the Periodic Table 'because it was there', and I love a good Atlas or encyclopedia. Hey, call me a nerd.
When I read the Appendices (which usually means jumping in at random to see what I can find in a spare five minutes) I often get the impression that Tolkien himself loved this kind of thing. I wonder if he had piles of notebooks with chronologies and family trees and such like stashed away which he would guiltily tinker with when he was supposed to be getting on with writing his story - Tolkien's equivalent of the garden shed, where men go to count nails and potter about. In the new Scull/Hammond book, it says that Tolkien had the idea of putting all the appendices in a separate volume but they were later put into RotK in a much condensed version; he was still tinkering with the appendices in March 1955 and the publishers were getting restive about getting RotK out and in to shops. I can't imagine the books without them; until relatively recently, single volume editions lacked the full appendices and I know of people who have read LotR several times but never the appendices! Do we need to read them though? They include a lot of information that isn't strictly necessary, but what they do give us is a taste for further stories about Tolkien's world. Some (most?) of those stories were never written, and that's where RPGs and fan-fics come in - the appendices must be a huge source of inspiration for writers and gamers. And though I find there is little to argue about in them, as they consist mainly of facts rather than prose, I would be lost without them as they add a sense of richness and depth, of history to Middle-earth.
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12-06-2005, 01:11 PM | #7 | |
Banshee of Camelot
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,830
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I hardly dare show myself here again, I feel so ashamed that I haven't managed to follow the discussions
Time is always running too fast for me! Anyhow, I am one who loves the appendices. I already started browsing in them even before I had finished the book! It is as Davem says Quote:
There are many things in the appendices though that aren't in the Sil, like the story of the hapless Arvedui. And some interesting details about the ring of Barahir, the Palantiri etc. btw, the new German Translation of the LotR is sold as a box with the 3 volumes in it - without the appendices! You have to buy those separately! I know of people who had no idea that there was such a thing as appendices!! Perhaps they aren't necessary for everyone, but the readers should have at least the choice to read them, or part of them.
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Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat! Last edited by Guinevere; 12-06-2005 at 01:18 PM. Reason: forgot something |
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12-11-2005, 09:42 PM | #8 |
Wight
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ephel Duath
Posts: 115
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To me one of the more interesting points of this Appendix, when I first read it many years ago about the same time the Silmarillion was first published, was that (correct me if I'm wrong about this) it makes the only mention of Eru in LOTR "The Valar laid down their Guardianship and called upon the One,..."
That suddenly gave Tolkien's world a whole different complexion, that it was fundamentally a monotheistic one--well, maybe it would have been obvious if I had been older or known more about Tolkien's life at the time. |
05-31-2006, 06:41 AM | #9 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom
Posts: 273
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To me, the Appendices are of extreem importance.
When I first read LoTR in the early 1960s, I ploughed through them with both fascination and frustration. The reasons for my fascination, especially with The Tale of Years, will be obvious to anyone who has read the Appendices. My frustration arose from finding that there was so little detail given for important events; much more than the hints of deep history given in The Hobbit and The Lord of The Rings but still not enough to satisfy me. My greatest frustration was because of the almost zero information from the First Age. At that time, it seemed unlikely that The Silmarillion would ever be published. I lived in fear that I would never get to know more. . |
09-01-2006, 03:01 AM | #10 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16
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I believe Sauron did posses a gift of foresight. He's wise didn't he? i believe he foresaw that someday, an heir of isildur would've rise and dispose him out of his dark throne. this lead to his effort to end the line of isildur. aragorn father and grandfather was slain by sauron's servants. If you read The Fellowship Of The Ring, Aragorn did mentioned to Frodo during their meeting at Bree that the enemy did attempted to laid trap on him. One thing that i think that unbalance Sauron's plan (he has plan for everything) is the involvement of Hobbits in the War Of The Ring. He didn't put them in his calculations just like when Morgoth mistakenly leaving the Edain out of his calculations when he made war upon the Noldor. This cost him his early campaign.
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09-15-2006, 06:56 AM | #11 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I loved the appendices! Loved it to bits! They gave the world of Middle-earth a feel of epic grandeur and made it felt as if that world really existed and it progressed from what could pass of as its late classical era of antiquity to an High Medival medieval age. If the general concensus in LMP's thread on the writer's conceit was that LoTR was intended as a historical accord, then the appendices gave the book its gravitas.
Don't hate me! But must admit rather shamefully that I had a better time reading the appendices than the last parts of LoTR proper after the fall Barad Dur. Must be the history lover (or monster ) in me.
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. " ~Voltaire
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