Melkor's depiction by artists: Flawed?

[Lord Melkor]

With Melkor being my favourite Vala (I know, who would've guessed it? ) I am frequently dismayed by the way mortal artists depict his looks. In fact, the majority of art in which Melkor's face can be seen have him look like some disgusting ghoul or mutant thing (I remember one artwork in particular in which Melkor was portrayed as something that would fit in quite nicely in an undead army, having no nose and all that (that would be David Days' Bestiary, for those interested)). But when one takes into account Melkor's personailty one must ask oneself this: Why would Melkor, who by all accounts could be considered vain, make himself a form that was ghastly to behold?

" Ah," you say, " But the text clearly says his form as the Dark Lord was 'terrible'! Clearly this means his form must have looked gruesome!" But lets take a closer look at the meaning of the word terrible. Though today it's usually used as a negative desciption, the word terrible used to have another meaning, more akin to 'awe-inspiring'. Take for example Galadriel's quote '....Beautiful and terrible as the dawn....' Clearly the dawn is not gruesome, ugly or disgusting to behold, but it's certainly awe-inspiring!

I believe that this is exactly how Tolkien meant his desciption of Melkor's guise as the Dark Lord, a shape of unrivalled dark glory and power, not some disgusting thing that looked partially decomposed. Granted, the scars of battle would make him unpleasant to behold (if the sneer of contempt for every creature apart from himself and his gaze which could break all but the most strongwilled person in an instant didn't do that already), I see nothing in the text to support the silly notion many artists seem to have that Melkor's facial characteristics would resemble that of a gorilla (Melkor vs Fingolfin, Ted Nasmith)

[Hookbill the Goomba]

An interesting question. Terrible is not describing the physical look of Melko, but rather referees to the feeling one would get to come into the presence of the most feared being in all of Middle Earth.
Firstly, Meko wanted to look threatening, not ugly, that would probably lose him his respect, fearful. If you have ever seen Morgoth's Ring, or The Lays of Beleriand, these are some of my favourite illustrations of Melko. A Dark Lord, not necessarily ugly, but someone you wouldn't like to meet all the same.

It is not unlikely that Melko (in his early days) would have appeared as a fair creature, as Sauron did in later days. But I think it says somewhere that he keeps his form of a Dark Lord. Because Tolkien gives no in-depth description of Melkor at any point I am aware of, we cannot really say what Tolkien intended him to look like. I suppose its all up to our own imaginations.

[Kuruharan]

I tend to agree. I don't think Morgoth was "ugly" in the way that we normally use the word. I don't think that artists get it right.

However, in their favor, it is very difficult to adequately convey "terror" in a painting. So instead of terror they attempt revulsion.

(They also usually make him too tall, but that is another story.)

[Elrowen Tinúviel]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

(They also usually make him too tall, but that is another story.)

How tall is Melko/Melkor supposed to be? I myself have always thought of him being unusually tall - mainly because of his battle with Fingolfin. That part always made me think of him as rather huge.

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

It is not unlikely that Melko (in his early days) would have appeared as a fair creature, as Sauron did in later days.

If I'm not mistaken... he did. He caused much trouble for the Elves in the First Age, and it was either he or Sauron (on Melkor's orders), that was instrumental in the Fall of Númenor. At least with the Elves, since they abhor evil and anything ugly, when Melko wanted to decieve them, he would have to appear fair. I forget where it's written (pretty sure it's in the Silmarillion), but it says that the Elves were on occasion lured by evil that appeared fair.

Well, there's my two cents that I always have to throw in.

-Elrowen

[Kuruharan]

How tall is Melko/Melkor supposed to be? I myself have always thought of him being unusually tall - mainly because of his battle with Fingolfin. That part always made me think of him as rather huge.

Like a Balrog, his body was probably not much more than 10 feet tall. Maybe around 15 on the outside, but certainly no more than that.

[Maerbenn]

Tolkien wrote in the essay ‘Notes on motives in the Silmarillion’ (published in HoMe X: Morgoth’s Ring) that Morgoth was “a tyrant of ogre-size” when Thangorodrim was broken.

[Kuruharan]

Well, that would be about 10-15 feet.

[Elrowen Tinúviel]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Like a Balrog, his body was probably not much more than 10 feet tall. Maybe around 15 on the outside, but certainly no more than that.

Oh, okay. I tend to find the answers to questions such as Melkor and Sauron's size elusive.

Balrogs are about ten feet or so tall? That was one that I've often wondered at... (the movie confused me a little on this) because in the Silmarillion, when Glorfindel fights the Balrog, he stabs it in the heart... therefore they can't be all that tall. When I think of Balrogs, I usually picture them as being huge... and yet that cannot be, for the average height of the Elves is around six feet or so...

-Elrowen

[Lord Melkor]

Well, one can deduce the rough height of Melkor and his servants through logic reasoning . It's safe to assume that Melkor would've been the tallest, being the Dark Lord and all that. Knowing Melkor's personality we can conclude that he would not allow one of his servants to be taller than himself. We also know that Glorfindel fought a Balrog and stabbed him in the stomach or chest and we know that the Balrog of Moria was small enough to attempt to enter the Chamber of Mazarbul so it's obvious that the movie Balrog is too large. My personal estimate is that the average Balrog was probably around 3 meters tall, still enough to tower over any of the Children of Iluvatar. Melkor himself would be even bigger, probably approaching 4 meters. Anything taller that 4 meters and the whole duel between him and Fingolfin will start to take on comedic qualities, with Fingolfin hacking away at Melkor's toes. At 4 meters Melkor would've been twice as tall as Fingolfin, more than enough to stand 'before the King like a tower, iron-crowned, and his vast shield, sable enblazoned, cast a shadow over him like a stormcloud.' Fingolfin would've been able to hit most of Melkors body with his sword, taking the reach of his blade into account. It also means that Melkor's foot is small enough to 'set his left foot upon his neck, and the weight of it was like a fallen hill.' If Morgoth was as tall as some artists depict him than 'And Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck, face and entire upper body and the weight of it was like a fallen hill.' would've been a more accurate desciption of the event.

[Kuruharan]

...but I've never allowed silly things like that to stop me.

It's safe to assume that Melkor would've been the tallest, being the Dark Lord and all that. Knowing Melkor's personality we can conclude that he would not allow one of his servants to be taller than himself.

There is a possible exception to this though. His dragons would have been "larger" than he was. I guess it would be up to the reader's imagination whether a dragon standing on its legs would have been taller. If it was a winged dragon the wings would probably add to the height (even when they are folded).

Now this may just be an exception that proves a rule...

Also, I'm probably not well equipped to discuss dragon sizes and heights because my mental picture of them has evolved considerably. I had originally pictured them as being huge beasts that would tower well above humans and elves when standing on their legs. However, my picture has changed considerably. Due partially to the realization that this type of dragon would be ill-suited to the underground life that dragons preferred and partially to seeing Tolkien's own picture of Smaug they have become decidedly more snake-like and lower to the ground.

(It is kind of hard to disagree with how Tolkien drew Smaug in my own view).

However, I guess it could also depend on where the legs are and the structure of the neck whether a dragon would have been taller than Morgoth.

[Elrowen Tinúviel]

I must admit... sometimes logical reasoning isn't my strongest suit.

Originally Posted by Lord Melkor

Fingolfin would've been able to hit most of Melkors body with his sword, taking the reach of his blade into account.

I completely understand that one.... I'm training in SCA heavy weapons combat, and I've sparred with people two (sometimes three) times my size... reach is insane... with a sword an inch longer (and using your body properly....... haven't quite gotten that down yet) it makes a huge difference!

Originally Posted by Lord Melkor

If Morgoth was as tall as some artists depict him than 'And Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck, face and entire upper body and the weight of it was like a fallen hill.' would've been a more accurate desciption of the event.

That makes for an interesting picture.

-Elrowen

[The Perky Ent]

Behold! My Morgoth Gallery!


Morgoth 1
Morgoth 2
Morgoth 3
Morgoth 4
Morgoth 5

Because of the size of the pics, They're in link format. Anyway, here's my two cents...

Being a big fan of Ulmo, I've always considered Valar around this size:

If that's too big for you, I can put it back in link form! Anyway, I consider Valar being at least over five times the size of a man. Morgoth, in my opinion, is a mixture of many evil and powerful beings. One of them being Ares, the Greek God of war. Ares

I consider Morgoth not far from the appearance of a man, but in an 'evil incarnate' look. The terrible feeling you get from seeing him is probably part of his 'All shall fear me and despair' aura he seems to carry about him. Fingolfin must be the king of neck strength. Clearly we have much to learn from him...

[Ainaserkewen]

While I agree with those examples of yours Perky as being more or less what Morgoth the Terrible looked like in those days of the Elven Wars, I can't help but wonder what his shape was when he was still just a nuissance. Or was he bad from the moment the Vala chose their forms?

And if that was his only form, the evil one, then how did he know what looked evil? How did he know what would frighten men and elves before he had even met them?

[drigel]

Its interesting that none of the portraits shows a face. I'd like to see a face! Or, as an alternative, what actor's face would come the closest to representing Morgoth?

Something "fair and terrible" I'm sure would be the general description, at least for M in the beginning.....

[The Perky Ent]

The second picture of Morgoth has a face, inaccurate though it may be

[drigel]

The second picture of Morgoth has a face, inaccurate though it may be

yea kinda.....
Looking at actual references to the physical description of M..... all I can find is
taller than a human (but not super large)
black hands (after taking the silms)
some references to the eyes...
not much else.
In my mind, I dont picture him as having an ugly evil face....

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Ainaserkewen

While I agree with those examples of yours Perky as being more or less what Morgoth the Terrible looked like in those days of the Elven Wars, I can't help but wonder what his shape was when he was still just a nuissance. Or was he bad from the moment the Vala chose their forms?

But they were able to change their forms, and Morgoth retained that power until he switched to his "Dark King of Utumno" form in Ungoliant's lair.

I imagine that before that he appeared rather like Sauron did to the Elves of Eregion and the people of Numenor: wise and fair.

"Not all that is gold glitters"

or, inversely:

"Not all that glitters is gold"

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Like a Balrog, his body was probably not much more than 10 feet tall. Maybe around 15 on the outside, but certainly no more than that.

Perhaps. I'm not good with foot estimates, but this is how I picture his size. Fingolfin "hewed" his foot, and I imagine the sword went in quite deeply. If you can stick about half a sword in a foot, it must be a rather large foot.

[Zigûr]

I know this is quite an old thread, but this has always been my favourite depiction of Morgoth, Ted Nasmith's "Morgoth punishes Húrin":
http://corecanvas.s3.amazonaws.com/t...al/silm_12.jpg

One of the best things about it in my opinion is that it leaves Morgoth's face to our imagination. I'm not such a fan of the face in Nasmith's front-on depiction which was posted above:
http://img-fan.theonering.net/~roloz...th/morgoth.jpg

My issues with certain fan depictions of the Enemy are as follows:

1) Too much plate armour. I know Morgoth was in his origin a great "maker" but nonetheless such armour to the best of our knowledge probably didn't exist at any point in Arda's history. Nasmith depicts Morgoth in mail and with a more "kingly" cloak and crown, which I think reflects Morgoth's character. I feel like he saw himself as a ruler more than a combatant.

2) Either covered faces or overly demonic or goblinoid faces - I think he should have a "terrible countenance" - hideous perhaps - but in the sense of a sneering, contemptuous, evil human being, full of arrogance and loathing for all other things.

I have the same problem with the depictions of balrogs that typically display them as horned and hoofed satyr-devils even though there's nothing in the text to substantiate this claim (and in my opinion they're more inspired by the fire-jötnar of the Norse).

Some of you may have seen before my own (rather crude) attempt to visualise Morgoth:
http://robanes.deviantart.com/art/Mo...ured-292036738

He's not haughty enough, however, in my opinion, and I wish I'd made him look less brooding and more angry. And given him eyes.

Here's Gothmog:
http://robanes.deviantart.com/art/Th...rogs-441388773

Apologies for shilling my own stuff but this is the closest I can come to conveying how I personally see these characters to some extent.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I know this is quite an old thread, but this has always been my favourite depiction of Morgoth, Ted Nasmith's "Morgoth punishes Húrin":
http://corecanvas.s3.amazonaws.com/t...al/silm_12.jpg

But Hurin is a nightmare!

Originally Posted by Zigur

Here's Gothmog:
http://robanes.deviantart.com/art/Th...rogs-441388773

Link is brokey.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

One of the best things about it in my opinion is that it leaves Morgoth's face to our imagination.

As it should be. To me a visualization of the face of Morgoth (and for that matter, Sauron) is entirely counterproductive. Fear of the unknown is much more effective generally than a hard point of reference. When you're talking about the ultimate Tolkien personification of Evil, what outside the mind of the reader could possibly do it justice?

[Arathorn111]

I always pictured Morgoth as someone "beautiful" when he walked among elves as the... god damn it I can't remember the phrase, but something like the giver of gifts. But then, when he lost the ability to appear as he wished (after the fall of Numenor?) I picture him as someone quite ugly, repulsive even, to the normal free folk.

But that is just the picture I painted in my mind, nothing else.

[Belegorn]

Melkor was grandiose. His helmet, as the Morgoth, was so heavy Beren could not lift it [Lays of Belereiand, 8.4136-4137], and he had a scar and limp [12.3604-09, 3615-3617, 3632-3634]. I agree that terrible does not necessarily mean he had an ugly countenance. Melkor's physical form in the beginning is described as:

Originally Posted by Silmarillion, p. 12

because of his mood and the malice that burned in him that form was dark and terrible. And he descended upon Arda in power and majesty greater than any other of the Valar, as a mountain that wades in the sea and has it head above the clouds and is clad in ice and crowned with smoke and fire; and the light of the eyes of Melkor was like a flame that withers with heat and pierces with deadly cold.

He is also said to have walked around in various "shapes of power and fear" [p. 34] I'd say he was more of an intimidating figure than an ugly one.

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Arathorn111

I always pictured Morgoth as someone "beautiful" when he walked among elves as the... god damn it I can't remember the phrase, but something like the giver of gifts. But then, when he lost the ability to appear as he wished (after the fall of Numenor?) I picture him as someone quite ugly, repulsive even, to the normal free folk.

But that is just the picture I painted in my mind, nothing else.

You're confusing Melkor with Sauron here. Melkor was done at the end of the First Age. Númenor perished near the end of the 2nd Age and Sauron became disfigured then, or rather could no longer take on pleasing forms. Sauron was the one who came to the Elves as Annatar, Lord of Gifts.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But Hurin is a nightmare!

Yes he's really rather bizarre looking in my opinion. I'm always in two minds about Nasmith's artwork. Some of it I find utterly inspired and some of it I find rather lacking.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Link is brokey.

How silly of me, I seem to have included a duplicate of the link on the end of the link. Here's the correct one (and I shall edit my original post):
http://robanes.deviantart.com/art/Th...rogs-441388773

Originally Posted by Belegorn

Melkor was grandiose.
...
He is also said to have walked around in various "shapes of power and fear" [p. 34] I'd say he was more of an intimidating figure than an ugly one.

I think this gets to the heart of the matter in my view at least.

Also regarding the description you quoted Belegorn, I find this artwork I once discovered approaches to a limited extent how I imagine it:
http://sarumanka.deviantart.com/art/...ival-351142288

[Arathorn111]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

You're confusing Melkor with Sauron here. Melkor was done at the end of the First Age. Númenor perished near the end of the 2nd Age and Sauron became disfigured then, or rather could no longer take on pleasing forms. Sauron was the one who came to the Elves as Annatar, Lord of Gifts.

Yeah sorry about that, have to admit I was a bit drunk at the time.

[Ivriniel]

I imagine he would have been incredibly handsome (given the vanity) while he was still able to take fair form, before going off to Angband. The archetypal 'bad boi' appeal, or equivalent 'elfy' variation. Seducer, conman, appeals to narcissism to groom. He would have been very creepy at gatherings--flirting or implying such across boundaries of propriety.

Perverse, sexually, as is implied by citations indicationg cross-species couplings. Orcs multiplied quickly. And according to the mode of the children of illuvatar.

After his transition, not sure what was left of objectively handsome.

[Belegorn]

I don't know that his permanent form was not good looking.

"he put on again the form that he had worn as the tyrant of Utumno: a dark Lord, tall and terrible. In that form he remained ever after." [Simarillion, ch. 8]

It seems his other servants tended to have a terrible air about them as well.

[Kuruharan]

I think Morgoth's other servants had a terrible air about them because he was deliberately trying to make them degraded and vulgar.

Of course, maybe that means that he made himself look that way too.

I'm always in two minds about Nasmith's artwork. Some of it I find utterly inspired and some of it I find rather lacking.

In my opinion it is his landscapes that are amazing and his figures that are underwhelming. However, his figure work has improved in recent years.

[Ivriniel]

Three Great Images


Melkor FACE: http://kimberly80.deviantart.com/art/Melkor-388446612

Melkor Before Throne of Manwe

Mahanaxar http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/M%C3%A1hanaxar

[Yregwyn]

Originally Posted by Elrowen Tinúviel

Oh, okay. I tend to find the answers to questions such as Melkor and Sauron's size elusive.

Balrogs are about ten feet or so tall? That was one that I've often wondered at... (the movie confused me a little on this) because in the Silmarillion, when Glorfindel fights the Balrog, he stabs it in the heart... therefore they can't be all that tall. When I think of Balrogs, I usually picture them as being huge... and yet that cannot be, for the average height of the Elves is around six feet or so...

-Elrowen

It says he stabbed it in the middle with his dirk as it was half again as tall as he was in "The fall of Gondolin". So it was 12' to 14' because elfs are like 6'4" or so, i dont remember where i read the elfs height at the Sil maybe?

[Belegorn]

Originally Posted by Ivriniel

Three Great Images

<snip>

Melkor Before Throne of Manwe http://www.theonering.com/galleries/...jacek-kopalski

This one is cool.

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by Belegorn

This one is cool.

I thought so too

He's fully the 'bad boi' archetype (from a modern language/culture perspective), and it's completely so wrong on so many levels, but that's also seriously a sexy rendition of Melkor.

[edit]if u have a look at the website, you'll see posted notes beneath the pic. One reads "Melkor Booty"[/edit]

[Ivriniel]

[Melkor Before Throne of Manwe