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09-03-2004, 04:55 PM | #1 | ||
Bittersweet Symphony
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The Mewlips
In "The Tolkien Reader" are a bunch of poems, supposed to have been taken from the Red Book (I believe). My favorite of these is called "The Mewlips":
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Any help or discussion is appreciated! |
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09-03-2004, 05:06 PM | #2 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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Mewlips were probaly more Hobbit folklore... the hobbits probaly heard of barrow-wights and tried to expand it more, and of course aganiest travelers...the old hobbit slogan
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09-03-2004, 06:19 PM | #3 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Much like barrow-wights, but living in swamps? I wonder if this might have something to do with the Dead Marshes.
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09-03-2004, 09:17 PM | #4 |
Bittersweet Symphony
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Perhaps, although I doubt it because the Marshes were quite far from the Shire and the hobbits probably wouldn't know about them.
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09-04-2004, 12:29 AM | #5 | |
Brightness of a Blade
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09-04-2004, 04:42 AM | #6 |
Stormdancer of Doom
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You haven't mewed until you've heard the version by The Hobbitons.
Great stuff.
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09-04-2004, 07:38 AM | #7 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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09-04-2004, 07:47 AM | #8 |
Illustrious Ulair
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09-04-2004, 09:20 AM | #9 | |||
Cryptic Aura
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I am not familiar with The Tolkien Reader, so I don't know how "The Mewlips" is discussed there, but I do have the poem in the collection it was published in, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.
What is particularly fun about that collection is Tolkien's introduction. He writes a parody of academic or scholarly work, treating these faux-RedBook poems as true academic discoveries of early oral literature. Tolkien posits possible authorship, sources, derivations, etc. Some, he says, were marginalia--scribbled on the edges of the paper around other poems. He identifies one as written by Bilbo, another by Sam Gamgee and a third by "SG". He claims they represent "older pieces, mainly concerned with legends and jests of the Shire at the end of the Third Age." He mentions several of the poems by their numbers (Mewlips is #9), but he does not discuss "Mewlips". Reading the Introduction is a hoot for anyone who knows the staid, formal, dry tones of academic discussion concerning early texts--Tolkien clearly pokes gentle fun at his own profession but quite possibly at his own creation as well, treating his legendarium to the kind of analysis usually reserved for "real life literature"--the philologist tweaking his own private hobby perhaps. I don't think the man's mind or imagination ever rested. Copyright does not allow me to type out the entire Introduction, but here are a few passages to give you the flavour of Tolkien's fun. Quote:
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To me, ascribing the dark vision of "The Mewlips" to a particular dark moment in Tolkien's life would be to treat the poem far too seriously and to overlook Tolkien's humour as well as his own interest in recreating a folklore. The Mewlips are creatures much like many of the frightening bogey men in the folklore of early Britain. Here is a link which provides a rather cursory description of many of them: Mysterious Britain I would suggest as well that the effort to place the Mewlips themselves within Middle Earth geography is similarly too serious; the work does not appear to have been so seriously related or fixed to the Legendarium. Or perhaps I should rather say that such endeavour likely could be made, but would be most successful if made in the same vein as Tolkien's own Introduction, as a bit of light-hearted sport!
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09-04-2004, 10:51 AM | #10 |
Stormdancer of Doom
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I thihnk, if one *must* place mewlips into Middle-Earth, that they work best as folk-processed, distorted Barrow-Wights. Treasure, underground rooms, clinking coins, devoured victims, dampness (moors can be damp) and 'mountains' (hills-- how often do hobbits of the Shire get to see real mountains?) seem to me to be the stuff of old-wives-tales; based in a little reality, but distorted.
Or it could just be a old fashioned made-up bogey tale, told by Fredegar Bolger's nurse.
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09-04-2004, 03:22 PM | #11 | |
Bittersweet Symphony
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davem -- Thanks for the link! Bethberry-- It's the same in the Reader. I did get a few laughs out of the preface, but I was a little disappointed to find that the "origin" of the Mewlips poem (#9) was not given. mark12_30's seems to make the most sense, although the very name of the Mewlips has gotten me thinking of them as little skulking catlike creatures, that walk upright but sort of crouched over, all black and nasty, rather than the ghostly Barrow-wights. It probably is just more of a distorted tale, though, as mark says. |
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09-11-2004, 04:51 PM | #12 |
Wight
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Another Explanation
I've heard of Mewlips as suggesting a type of swamp-orc that would have inhabited the marshes around Mirkwood. It might hark back to primitive Hobbit fears at the time of when darkness and dread first emanated from Dol Guldor, and the wandering times began.
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09-22-2004, 06:23 AM | #13 |
Deadnight Chanter
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Moofeet are far less spookier. They are of folk contrivance, yet their origin may be traced back to the First Age and to Orome's hunters (and hunted, probably)
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09-22-2004, 08:06 AM | #14 |
Illustrious Ulair
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Wonder if Tolkien was influenced by the story The Hobyahs first published in Joseph Jacobs collection 'More English Fairy Tales' in 1894:http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/meft/meft27.htm
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09-23-2004, 01:03 PM | #15 | ||||||||||
Shade of Carn Dűm
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Re:
I always wondered whether that poem was describing the gangrenous spirits who dwelt in the Dead Marshes.
I think it was the 'single candle lit' part that reminded me of the flickering candles in the marshes. Of course, I always took the weird lights the hobbits and Gollum saw as Will o' the Wisps. Quote:
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It's interesting to note that another name for the Will o' the Wisp is this; Quote:
Clearly quicksand, slime, and dark waters are what the prey of the Mewlips fall into, and they see the grim faces of the Mewlips looking at them. Quote:
One of the first questions Sam asked Gollum was; "who are they?" Quote:
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He sunk a little, and looked at the grim dead face of an evil spirit, which seemed to live under a little glazed, dirty glassy window beneath the water. Sounds like the Mewlips to me. Tolkien mentioned noisome smell, and the Mewlip poem mentioned noisome waters, and; The cellars where the Mewlips sit Are deep and dank and cold With single sickly candle lit; And there they count their gold. Their walls are wet, their ceilings drip; Their feet upon the floor Go softly with a squish-flap-flip, As they sidle to the door. Naturally gives the idea of a creature living UNDER very wet ground, possibly even under the marshes. It's entirely possible, that the bodies of many of the elves and men inhabiting the Dead Marshes were in their own Barrows. So in that way, these would be very 'wight-like' creatures. Swamp Wights. But a Barrow which has been overtaken by the cursed swamp would be a lot like a cellar which was literally under the swamp. As for droopy willow and gorcrows, it mentions them being nearby, but I'd guess that since it talks about a rotting river strand, it could mean the basin beneath Rauros, where Anduin becomes a criss-cross of marsh delta, because those wetlands spread all the way to the Dead Marshes, with nothing separating them other than the desolate Noman Lands. As for the Merlock Mountains, I have no idea. But willow trees are grey, and since we know a lot of willows were found hedging Entwash, and on rivers in Rohan, it seems likely that there would be the occasional rotting willow tree within a short distance of the Dead Marshes, in Nindalf. Again, the last stanza mentions the Merlock Mountains, which could be the Misty Mountains, but in all seriousness could be any other mountains. But that 'long and lonely road' could refer to Sauron's causeway, which heads due north just east of the Dead Marshes, across Dagorlad, north through the Brown Lands and around up to Dol Goldur, but also likely splits off and heads north into Wilderland. Through 'spider-shadows' could definitely be referencing Mirkwood. The Marsh of Tode could be ... the hard to travel marshes just east of Mirkwood on the River Running and the Forest River, they could be the Nindalf, or even the Dead Marshes themselves. Through the wood of hanging trees, could definitely be referencing Fangorn. I'm not sure about 'gallows-weed'. It seems like it could be an old fashioned term for some variety of grass growing in a swamp or scrubland, or it could be something Tolkien invented just because. Probably the old fashioned term is the more likely description. That is where you'll find the Mewlips. But could this very spot be the Mere of Dead Faces? That inky black pool of water in the very center of wight activity in the haunted marsh? If you cross-reference that with Bilbo's journey, you can see the idea; Just over the mountains, a long road takes you under the eaves of Mirkwood, down over lonely lands, to a distant marsh, where these fell creatures await in the deepest, darkest sections of the swamps. Of course, Smeagol mentions that he has tried to reach them, tried to touch them, but they seem to be "only shapes to see, perhaps, not to touch." Having attempted it, he may have more knowledge about their abilities than Hobbit poems, and discovered in his curiosity that they aren't out to collect bones, they are just trying to trick travellers into coming to a bad end. Of course, once the traveller is dead, they may take his bones. Quote:
So were the Mewlips the wights inhabiting the Dead Marsh? I think it's pretty likely.
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09-23-2004, 03:07 PM | #16 | ||
Bittersweet Symphony
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The part about the Will o' the Wisps was particularly interesting; the book "Faeries" (Brian Froud and Alan Lee!) offers a blurb about them: Quote:
I think a little fanfiction attempting to explain these curious Mewlips is in order. |
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