Tolkien taught in school

[Morsul the Dark]

Firstly I was unsre where this thread would belong, whether it should go here, or in "The Barrow-Downs" forum. Secondly througout this year, in English class me and a classmate, Phil, discusssed why Tolkien should be taught in schools.(Actually I argued that, he argued why Star Wars should be taught.) At any rate as we were reading Beowulf I convinced my English teacher to let us watch LOTR. She brought in ttt, which I found rude seeing as only three or four of us understood what was going on.

The point I'm trying to make is this, we learn nothing in school of true drama. LOTR is shoved aside by Romeo and Juliet, a tale of two lusting teenagers that kill themselves, and thrown to the wall by A Tale of Two Cities, A uncomprehensible text of discription.(We watched the movie and it was a very good story, but as a book I got confused, and I'm good at comprehension.) LOTR is clear and decisive and teaches values such as friendship, love, loyalty, devosion.

Why do we suffer throuh Macbeth, when all it teaches is greed is bad through five of the longest acts in history.(that is merely how it felt.) LOTR is much more exciting and heartwarming and has much more teachable values. I say drop that heavy literature book carry a lighter 3 in one volume of LOTR. I understand you can say it takes too long to read. I believe however you could teach only this and learn most if not all the lessons you have learned from all the other lessons put together.

Don't get me wrong I, myself, love Shakespear, Charles Dickens, and Homer. Bbbut I do think there is a better way, a perfect way...a Tolkien way!

[Imladris]

Well, we learn the other works because they are the masters of language. Shakespeare is the wordsmith of this world. Tolkien built his work on them, just like Shakespeare probably built his work on Homer. These authors are, after all, still widely read for a reason, and they are also called classics for a reason.

Shakespeare has coined many of the words...I disagree about many of your descriptions of Romeo and Juliet and the others, but they do not belong here.

[Morsul the Dark]

do they not belong as they are inappropriate? or do they not belong in this forum?

[InklingElf]

Well all we can do is sigh through required reading Morsul. I won't complain about the mentioned writers myself -- though I have suffered through Macbeth at least 6 times in different grades -- repeatedly!

I will affirm however that LOTR does take long to read. I talked to my past teachers about why it is not required (save for Summer Reading perhaps) and their reasons appear plausible.

1)Not everyone has the same reading speed (WPM) -- believe me it's so frustrating to have to wait for people to finish
2)It is easier to get a student engaged in reading and analyzing a certain piece if it is interactive -- like a play for example
3)If LOTR were to be a reading requirement it would take even more than a school year (4 semesters) to read,analyse,quiz, and test

Though it may seem unfair to many people I appreciated the fact that I was able to read Tolkien on my own time. And having the Downs (well that's years later) under my finger-tips makes it convenient for me to discuss these pieces of amazing prose with seasoned pros of Tolkienology (heh).

I'm glad for the people who have had the opportunity to have Tolkien in their curriculum (truly it is not devoid of observance by other teachers). And besides it's not like he is not introduced. The Hobbit was required reading in elementary and that is the reason I went and bought LOTR and so on and so forth.

Originally Posted by Morsul

The point I'm trying to make is this, we learn nothing in school of true drama. LOTR is shoved aside by Romeo and Juliet, a tale of two lusting teenagers that kill themselves, and thrown to the wall by A Tale of Two Cities, A uncomprehensible text of discription.(We watched the movie and it was a very good story, but as a book I got confused, and I'm good at comprehension.) LOTR is clear and decisive and teaches values such as friendship, love, loyalty, devosion.

Drama is for Theatrics is it not? Moral values are not exactly the point behind teaching Shakespeare or any other piece of literature that is taught in school.
The point of its presentation is to hone the ability to comprehend plot structures, themes -- the whole nine yards if you will.

Thanks for this topic Morsul I've been thinking about it myself.

[Morsul the Dark]

Well Inkling, You're Welcome. Secondly I will not debate that it takes a long time to read, because it does. I do however think that most of Shakespeare's works boil down to a moral:

Macbeth: Died because of greed(greed is bad)
Romeo and Juliet: Died for love(loyalty)
Merchant of Venuse: Tolerance

I will agree that in a play it is easier to get students to read.

I myself have never been blessed with LOTR or any of Tolkien's works as required reading. I do forget why I originally picked up the Hobbit that one day in the book store, so many years ago but it wasn't for school. But I think if it were taught in schools perhaps thered be more jolly honnit lovers in the world.

[InklingElf]

Hobbit lovers? You probably mean the younger generation. From what I know Tolkien was a bit of a cult master esp. during the 60s. And still IS. I'm talking before Jackson my dear.

[Morsul the Dark]

As am I, Oh sure Jackson helped rekindle a fire inside me(seeing how I had forgotten about the hobbit until the trilogy came out)

But I ask you why must we read "Classics" they're written in old English that unless you take the time as I did. You won't understand.

Tolkien only used two words I did not know the meaning of erfe which I found out means before. and league, which I still don't know how long a league is.

But what I'm saying is many teenagers are turned off by literatre because it is hard to understand. Tolkien is easy(unless you're a BDer we tend to complicate things ) I think Tolkien would be wonderful. Also in most literature books they only take passages of the tales, well why not just take passages from LOTR on Mount Doom when Sam carries Frodo up the mountain, the bridge of Khazadum...all those wonderous moments that mean something, those that show true courage, friendship, loyalty, and devotion.

[InklingElf]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

As am I, Oh sure Jackson helped rekindle a fire inside me(seeing how I had forgotten about the hobbit until the trilogy came out)

But I ask you why must we read "Classics" they're written in old English that unless you take the time as I did. You won't understand.

Tolkien only used two words I did not know the meaning of erfe which I found out means before. and league, which I still don't know how long a league is.

But what I'm saying is many teenagers are turned off by literatre because it is hard to understand. Tolkien is easy(unless you're a BDer we tend to complicate things ) I think Tolkien would be wonderful. Also in most literature books they only take passages of the tales, well why not just take passages from LOTR on Mount Doom when Sam carries Frodo up the mountain, the bridge of Khazadum...all those wonderous moments that mean something, those that show true courage, friendship, loyalty, and devotion.

Firstly, I agree that Peter Jackson DID indeed help re-kindle old flames and simultaneously kick-start new ones. I wouldn't replace him for another director.

Second,
What's wrong with Old English Morsul? Trust me there is a whole glossary of archaic words that are constantly used in Tolkien's writing.

I think the challenge in reading classic lit. IS trying to gain understanding. If we didn't have to read it we might as well kill the whole purpose of reading Tolkien. Maybe the reason why Tolkien's themes are easier and more conventional to pick up is because he chooses to use sterotypical characters and themes.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm on your side, but your sounding like you want to eliminate classic lit. and replacing it with ONLY Tolkien.

[Morsul the Dark]

That is not my intention, I love old tales they are great. I believe they are good an should be taught but I believe that we should also learn Tolkien alongside them.

EDIT:

May I also add, classics are not bad and should be taught but there is a certain overexposure in my opinion you have suffered this as well

though I have suffered through Macbeth at least 6 times in different grades -- repeatedly!

More modern tales are less stale. Perhaps I'm just bored with the old classics and crave somethingmore, I do not say throw away alll the literature just give it a break now and then. We always learn the same ones. This year for example we read Beowulf and the Cantebury Tales, I loved it because it was such a turn from the normal Shakespeare drilling.

[Imladris]

Of course we should. Tolkien is also a key cornerstone is the writing legacy. He wrote, along with Lewis, modern mythology. Alas I cannot elaborate because I don't know how as of yet it is modern mythology... but I'm taking a course on it this year....

[Encaitare]

Several years back, we had a summer reading assignment (I think it was when I was going into seventh grade), and we had the option of choosing any of the three books of the trilogy. Too bad I wasn't into LotR at the time... plus, I think -- just my opinion -- that they're a little heavy-duty for a twelve-year-old's summer assignment.

At my boyfriend's school, they actually have a fantasy lit class... I am so jealous. What I wouldn't give.

Personally, I love Shakespeare; I think he was an incredibly brilliant writer. But he didn't use Old English, as my teachers have banged into my head for the past two years. He used Modern English with some crazy words thrown in. All I can say is... hooray for iambic pentameter!

Dickens is pretty tedious, although I did enjoy A Tale of Two Cities. His stories are good, but his publisher really should have learned that paying a writer by the word is asking to be robbed. Jane Austen... argh.

It would take too long, though, to read the whole trilogy and really understand it. I think it's the kind of thing you need to read at least twice. Surely it could be completed in one school year, but teachers are into multitasking and all that crepe, and they just love jamming an impossible number of assignments into a tiny frame of time. Unless the teacher was really a Tolkien fan, the book would probably lose some of its magic.

And there would, of course, be the idiot kids who snickered at Frodo and Sam...

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

It would take too long, though, to read the whole trilogy and really understand it. I think it's the kind of thing you need to read at least twice. Surely it could be completed in one school year, but teachers are into multitasking and all that crepe, and they just love jamming an impossible number of assignments into a tiny frame of time. Unless the teacher was really a Tolkien fan, the book would probably lose some of its magic.

And there would, of course, be the idiot kids who snickered at Frodo and Sam...

Good points certainly didn't think of them true many students would snicker at Sam and Frodo. It's a shame really. But you must hear what excuse one of my teachers had used.(It was my math teacher.)We were talking about this and she said, "LOTR shouldn't be taught because it isn't even literature I don't know why anyone likes it, it's so stupid." I do say insulting a work of art like that might as well say the earth is flat.

[Lalwendë]

I've had to answer this because I'm an English graduate and a trained English teacher (11-18 age range).

I think there is nothing wrong with having Tolkien in the curriculum/syllabus for English, although LOTR is perhaps far too long and daunting a book for many students, and The Hobbit may be better, particularly for those starting at secondary school. My only reservation, and it is quite a big one, is that frequently students grow to hate any literature studied at school, and as a Tolkien fan, I would hate this to happen. Now, having extracts from Tolkien may be a particularly good idea in an English class. As an example, a class studying horror may benefit from reading Fog on the Barrow-Downs. Why do I think it's a good idea? Because Tolkien has a great appeal for boys, and it is very difficult to find literature which appeals to boys! Also, there is another bonus in that as the films are so well-liked, then reading at least a little Tolkien may generate interest and excitement in a somewhat cynical class.

I think, however, that there may not be that many English teachers, certainly in the UK, who would choose to include Tolkien in the syllabus, as his writing is not studied in universities, and it still does not attract the critical/academic interest as much as other writing does.

About Shakespeare, if you are finding it boring at school, then perhaps it is being taught the wrong way? I had one diabolically bad English teacher who made me hate Macbeth. Luckily our normal teacher returned from her maternity leave and she made sure to turn our opinions around - she was an excellent teacher.

It's my opinion that a good high school English literature syllabus should contain as broad a range of works as possible and I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't get to study more contemporary work. My own 'O' level syllabus included a volume of classic sci-fi stories (Asimov and Clarke etc), alongside Shakespeare and narrative poetry. But my 'A' Level syllabus was a real revelation. Taught by the excellent teacher I mentioned earlier, we studied Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, Richard II, Thomas Hardy, Brian Friel's contemporary play Translations (about Irish politics and language), Iris Murdoch, EM Forster, Alice Walker and John Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman. She also demanded that we read wider and some of us who sat Oxford entrance exams had to actually develop specialisms.

Now, sorry for the long post - it's a bit of a favourite topic of mine!

[Morsul the Dark]

I don't find Shakespeare boring just 95%of students do, I myself had an excellent teacher Mr. C..... and he made English fun he related it to real life and really explained it well.(I'm hoping to get him in my senior year) He is one of the driving forces that made me want to teach English.

[InklingElf]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I've had to answer this because I'm an English graduate and a trained English teacher (11-18 age range).

I think there is nothing wrong with having Tolkien in the curriculum/syllabus for English, although LOTR is perhaps far too long and daunting a book for many students, and The Hobbit may be better, particularly for those starting at secondary school. My only reservation, and it is quite a big one, is that frequently students grow to hate any literature studied at school, and as a Tolkien fan, I would hate this to happen. Now, having extracts from Tolkien may be a particularly good idea in an English class. As an example, a class studying horror may benefit from reading Fog on the Barrow-Downs. Why do I think it's a good idea? Because Tolkien has a great appeal for boys, and it is very difficult to find literature which appeals to boys! Also, there is another bonus in that as the films are so well-liked, then reading at least a little Tolkien may generate interest and excitement in a somewhat cynical class.

I think, however, that there may not be that many English teachers, certainly in the UK, who would choose to include Tolkien in the syllabus, as his writing is not studied in universities, and it still does not attract the critical/academic interest as much as other writing does.

About Shakespeare, if you are finding it boring at school, then perhaps it is being taught the wrong way? I had one diabolically bad English teacher who made me hate Macbeth. Luckily our normal teacher returned from her maternity leave and she made sure to turn our opinions around - she was an excellent teacher.

It's my opinion that a good high school English literature syllabus should contain as broad a range of works as possible and I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't get to study more contemporary work. My own 'O' level syllabus included a volume of classic sci-fi stories (Asimov and Clarke etc), alongside Shakespeare and narrative poetry. But my 'A' Level syllabus was a real revelation. Taught by the excellent teacher I mentioned earlier, we studied Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, Richard II, Thomas Hardy, Brian Friel's contemporary play Translations (about Irish politics and language), Iris Murdoch, EM Forster, Alice Walker and John Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman. She also demanded that we read wider and some of us who sat Oxford entrance exams had to actually develop specialisms.

Now, sorry for the long post - it's a bit of a favourite topic of mine!

Did I ever tell you that you sound EXACTLY like my 6th grade teacher? It's good to know someone of the teaching profession finally posted! Kudos

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by InklingElf

Did I ever tell you that you sound EXACTLY like my 6th grade teacher? It's good to know someone of the teaching profession finally posted! Kudos

Indeed, Lalwendë, if any hold sway in this debate it would be you as a teacher. Welcome to our thread.

[InklingElf]

This teacher must live a measlely existence. Enca I've never seen such a narrow-minded teacher in my life -- after all the ones I have and had would never interject such a misguided statement. Are you sure she's credentialed?

[Morsul the Dark]

I honostly don't think so. She spends more time correcting her own math than teaching us math I got a C and thats because I argued with her when she was wrong but I stray from topic

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

On the subject of teaching Tolkien, my school does. We have a biannual Trilogy class, that gets switched up with Creative Writing on the off-years. In respect to the time-frame needed to get a good grasp of what you're reading... we begin in September, finish in June, and usually don't manage to read the Appendices, although we do finish the book proper. Requirements for the class are to be serious about examining literature, and you've got to be a fantasy fan (what's the point, otherwise?). It's also happily looked upon if you've already read the books (or I suppose seen the films), thus leaving you with the gist if the stories, before you go detail scouting. Newbies are in no way, shape, or form turned away, and intentional spoilers by the class 'wizards' are received by an immediate and astounding drop in your G.P.A.. The class is fun, the discussions enlightening, and it tends to be an all-around good time, what with the hard-core fans correcting the teacher on small points of little interest (not that I'D happen to be one of those fans... ). Tril. is an elective. On the subject of incorporating the Lord of the Rings into the syllabus of a required English class? I don't like the idea.

As was said before, required reading tends to be looked at negatively by the masses. Just look at the number of you with Macbeth horror stories. My own required reading nightmares included East of Eden, Flowers for Algernon, Of Mice and Men, The Red Pony, and one that I can't remember the title of, that dealt with a slightly mental kid being extremely jealous of his best friend, the plot culminating in said best friend dying because of actions of said mental kid. Those are just a few examples of what I hated, simply because I had no choice in reading them. If I'd read it on my own, I probably would have enjoyed East of Eden at least, if not the others, but if I'd been forced to read LotR? Out of sheer spite and perversity of nature, I'd have no doubt forced myself to find all the flaws available to the scrutinous eyes of an above-average highschool student.

In short... I agree that everybody should read LotR, probably because I'm prejudiced in its favor... but I don't think they should be forced to, regardless of the sixty bijillion awesome qualities that the books possess.

Fea

[Lalwendë]

Alas I don't teach now, I work in an office instead. But, without giving away exactly what I do, it is an office which deals exclusively with education! Teaching scared me at the time. It was the realisation that I was responsible for the futures of all those who I taught. I think I could enjoy it now I'm older, without that thought lurking in the back of my mind too much, but I wouldn't like all the directives and targets that get heaped onto the profession. They stifle teachers and turn schools into little more than exam machines.

I'm intrigued though, it sounds as though some schools in other countries are much larger and so some can give their students the chance to specialise more. I only know of choosing subjects, not areas within a subject, although my own teacher did discuss with us what we would like to study at 'A' Level - which was highly unusual.

I studied Of Mice and Men with the terrible teacher I had. We spent the class time reading aloud in turns, and our homework consisted of twenty comprehension questions to answer on what we had just read. This continued for every lesson. Obviously the whole class soon stopped doing homework and also began to mess about in lessons. That's just one example of a bad teacher making you hate a good book (I like this book now I don't have to do such dull work around it).

What's 6th grade? Is that like Year 6, age 10 to 11?

[Encaitare]

What's 6th grade? Is that like Year 6, age 10 to 11?

Yes indeedy.

I agree with Feanor; we tend to take a cynical or negative view towards almost everything that is required of us, and schoolwork certainly not the least. I know I have begun most books in English class with dread and boredom, and sometimes I've been pleasantly surprised by the material. And it's been the reverse as well: I thought things boded well for "1984" because it had appendices on language (which is always a good thing!) but alas, I didn't like it at all.

I think the Trilogy Class is a great idea though, and it sounds really fun.

In short... I agree that everybody should read LotR, probably because I'm prejudiced in its favor... but I don't think they should be forced to, regardless of the sixty bijillion awesome qualities that the books possess.

Yes, and plus we'd be forced to answer study guide questions on them, and write essays (although the essays I wouldn't mind)... isn't it interesting how the things we gripe about in English class (having to read, reread, and analyze till the sun goes down) are currently going on over at the Chapter-by-chapter section of the books forum, all by our own free will?

[Morsul the Dark]

I enjoy writing essays and anallysing literature, all parts and books. it depends on the type of teacher you get as well... I certainly would hate English it werent for my last three english teachers. (Ms. S., Mr.C,(had 2 years in a row ) and Mrs C.)

Flowers for Algernon- read that with Miss S. it was excellent I liked it
Of Mice and Men -only read an excerpt but seemed good
Beowulf-Loved it
The Odyssey- Awesome

Well no need for me to go on with all the books Ive read over the past 4 years I will say however that Tolkien's works even if it isn't LOTR are very useful in lessons. Fea I envy you, you have the best school, The only Author Friendly class we have is Shakespeare I and ShakespeareII, I joined them but I guess not enough students were interested so they dropped the class Mr. C was going to teach it as well...(If you hadn't noticed Mr. C. is probably my favorite teacher at my school)

[Encaitare]

Flowers for Algernon depressed me. I'm not sure what the curriculum is for this year, but I'm pretty sure we'll be reading Beowulf (yay! I read it already! ) and Canterbury Tales. I didn't really enjoy the Odyssey, although I am sure I would have if I'd read it on my own. Has anyone else noticed that the prose versions of epic poems are never as good?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fea I envy you, you have the best school

Fea hastily hides an outburst of laughter behind a fake-sounding cough.

I assure you, it's not that great. I love my school, if only because familiarity breeds content, and I tend to get preferential treatment (teachers' pet and all that) even if I niether try nor ask for it. However... it is the teachers who make or break a school or class. I do not like my Tril teacher. I know perfectly well that she pushes her "more promising" students harder, but when she hands me back a paper that is far better than anything else people scratched out in an hour, with red marks, cross-outs, side notes, and a big fat C on top... it's hard to remind myself that she is making me a better writer when my G.P.A. suffers for it. Or perhaps she knows that I write what I know will get a certain grade and no further, so I can concentrate my efforts on writing that I care more about... I hope not, otherwise my grades would plummet. Oh wait... I have Mr. D this year instead! I'm looking forward to Hamlet, and I'm told that D gives weekly journal topics to write on. That should be excellent. Anyhow, to stay on topic... I think it is the perversity of most teenagers to want to rebel against most things school-related (admit it, you've been annoyed with assignments as well, simply because they don't let you choose), so by forcing LotR into curriculum... no doubt we would be, in essense, forcing teens to dislike it.

Fea

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

(admit it, you've been annoyed with assignments as well, simply because they don't let you choose), so by forcing LotR into curriculum... no doubt we would be, in essense, forcing teens to dislike it.

Fea

Yes as in business class hated the charles linbergh assignment(we were studying criminal law i know of you went Lindbergh...business ????? )

But I do suppose it is natural for students to rebel against whats forced on them

teachers' pet and all that

ah yes I know this one as well math class...0 homework average(I detest homework! ) my highest quiz grade 75 got a C+ ask me how that works and I'm stumped. Math used to be my best subject but as has been stated the teacher is a big part and my teacher had a very heavgy accent and had a bogus teaching method.


To stay on topic:Perhaps we don't need new literature although it would help but perhaps more fun assignments to go along with the literature we learn.

[Firefoot]

This is something I thought might interest people on this thread. In my English class today we were getting reading lists, along the lines of "A Well-Read Highschool student should have read...", and LotR was in fact on the list. This list is also the list from which we must pick books to read for class. So while it isn't required reading, it is in fact considered to have "literary value".

In some ways, I am glad that LotR is not required reading. As Lalwendë said:

My only reservation, and it is quite a big one, is that frequently students grow to hate any literature studied at school, and as a Tolkien fan, I would hate this to happen.

How many times has this happened to me? While I don't believe I could ever grow to hate LotR ( ) I wouldn't want it to happen to other people too.

[Mad Baggins]

My only reservation, and it is quite a big one, is that frequently students grow to hate any literature studied at school, and as a Tolkien fan, I would hate this to happen.

Well, if you're forced to read a piece of literature five days of the week instead of whenever you wanted to read it, it would become tedious. I know that last year we read A Midsummer Night's Dream and at the start I was rather excited. But when we were done the play and we set it down for the last time, all I could do was heave a sigh of relief. It would probably have been quite a different story if I was allowed to read the play by myself at whatever time I chose to read it, but I was forced to read for about half an hour every school day. It kind of sucks the fun out of reading. I'm actually glad we didn't read any Tolkien books in school, because that could have happened and I may have been turned away from his works. So maybe it's a good thing that many schools don't use Tolkien for compulsory reading.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

We read the hobbit in 7th grade reading class. I'll never get the sound of the teacher shrieking out the words "Thief! Thief Baggins, we hates it forever!" and scaring us out of our wits. Another point I have is that, were LotR required reading, it would lessen individual imaginings because the entire class would no doubt end up discussing their thoughts, visuals, and opinions, and lessening the artistic license that the imagination takes, when left to its own devices. When we discuss things, we don't have the annoyance of peer-pressure, or the teacher saying "this is what happened". We've already read the books and formed our own conclusions and images, and even if they change, they are still ours, and not simply visuals created as a class and generally accepted as the easy way of getting out of imagining your own... I'll just stop now. I think I'm leaping headfirst into run-on sentences. I'm sorry if none of this made any sense.

Fea

[Laitoste]

I, for one, am glad I didn't have to read LotR in school. Whether or not people like it is not my concern here, but that we would not be able to spend enough time on it to truly learn from it. At my school, we usually spend a month to a month and a half reading books a third the size of LotR. To speed through it (1) doesn't give most people enough time to read and understand it and (2) doesn't do it justice.

[Encaitare]

Plus, it's always nicer to discover a great book on your own!

[InklingElf]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

Yes indeedy.

I agree with Feanor; we tend to take a cynical or negative view towards almost everything that is required of us, and schoolwork certainly not the least. I know I have begun most books in English class with dread and boredom, and sometimes I've been pleasantly surprised by the material. And it's been the reverse as well: I thought things boded well for "1984" because it had appendices on language (which is always a good thing!) but alas, I didn't like it at all.

Enca thanks for mentioning 1984 and am sorry you didn't enjoy it (may I ask why not?) but I love being an Orwellian!!! hehehehe.

I just hate having to read at the same pace with a class -- which I think is the main thing alot of us lose interest in alot of these amazing books.

[gorthaur_cruel]

My only reservation, and it is quite a big one, is that frequently students grow to hate any literature studied at school, and as a Tolkien fan, I would hate this to happen.

Too true. Before I knew Tolkien, my sister studied The Hobbit in 7th grade. I even remember her acting out Riddles in the Dark. Well, anyway, she detested it. She came home and told me what a horrible book she's studying in school, so I naturally thought, "what a bad book it must be". Some years later, my mom said I should try reading LotR, as it was when FotR was first released and LotR craze was on. I actually refused, remembering how my sister convinced me that the Hobbit was a bad book. Well, my mom just made me try it, and there's enough said

[Gorwingel]

Well it is interesting that this thread was the first one that I saw when I logged on to the B-D's from a brand new location... college

Because today I have been thinking a lot about the dear professor, and the literature that I am required to read in school.

Today I went to buy my books ($$$$), and in one of my classes I had to purchase nine different books. Including Beowulf, The Canterbury Tales, and an anthology that includes British Literature from the Middle Ages to the present (But alas no LOTR).

I am excited, but kind of scared. I am just hoping that I will enjoy the novels, and that maybe as an added bonus it will help me to understand Tolkien and his works a little more

No Tolkien classes at my school (which is to note a Catholic college), but if we had one I of course would be one of the first to sign up. I do wish that they did include LOTR a little more in school. I doubt it would be detramental to it's popularity, just because it is such a popular book with such die hard fans who already desire to know as much about it as they possibly can (It would have to be a elective class in my opinion).

[Morsul the Dark]

You will enjoy them I am sure rest assured Beowulf and the Cantebury Tales are excellent works, I myself did plenty of extracredit reports and analyseses on both.

Secondly congradulations for getting into college. I hope to be in college next year.

I do agree with inkling the biggest thing holding back good literature is the seperate paces of reading and comprehension. Its like a drive through window in a fast food place(dont worry this has a point) t's a bit high for cars and yet a little low for SUVs

Thats how the reading pace is in schools too low for the more literate and book oriented folk and a bit high for those who already arent fond of reading.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Tolkien seems to be creeping into the university syllabus a bit more of late. Just two examples. I live in Houston and Jane Chance teaches at Rice University. (She has written several books on Tolkien.) She is a specialist in medieval lit and normally teaches LotR every other spring. Enrollment is said to be strong. I assume similar courses exist at other colleges where there are professors who have written about LotR or Tolkien.

This summer, we were searching for a "pre-college" program for a member of our family. This is where a high school student goes to a college campus and spends anywhere from 2-6 weeks in classes taught by university professors. That way, the student gets a better idea what college classes are like and also campus life. Generally, the student takes no more than one or two classes. I noticed several schools with classes focusing on Tolkien. The best one seemed to be at the University of Chicago. The course sounded fascinating. Unfortunately, I don't think I can pass myself off as a pre-college student so I am unlikely to get in!

In both the situations above, the classes are elective: students enroll because they have a particular interest in the subject. I think this is far preferable to making Tolkien "required reading" in required classes. That's where you are apt to turn folk off.

There are ways to incorporate Tolkien in classes like this. Quite often, there may be a paper or presentation where students select books from a particular list. If the book is presented as an option, but not a requirement, I think the results will be far more positive. This happened at my daughter's middle school in 5th grade. She was able to read The Hobbit as an AR (Advanced Reading) book, which she did. She now has the option of any of the three volumes of LotR as well. My son's high school is considering a Tolkien course as part of winterim (a two-week period after Christmas break when the regular curriculum is dropped and all students are given the chance to focus on three elective courses.) So, bit by bit, Tolkien is creeping into the curriculum, although often through the back door and generally not part of basic, required classes.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I logged on to the B-D's from a brand new location... college

Congratulations indeed, Gorwingel! College comes next year for me... after my absurdly simple senior year that begins in about 1 1/2 weeks. Four classes. Four! Well... Phys.Ed. and Advanced Studio Art as well, but really... four classes. Not that I mean to ramble on, but its absurd how easy my schedule is this year (especially in comparison to the last two years...). Physics, Government/Economics, English, and Calculus, which I may in fact be dropping (most certainly NOT with one of my favorite teachers... I learn next to nothing in her classes. Not to imply she's a bad teacher, because everybody else gets what she teaches... but I personally don't learn a thing.) Sorry to ramble... Back on topic:

My suggestion, to anyone interested in getting a Tril. class started at their school, is to talk to the 'higher-ups' there. What I mean is, you'd have to get one of the teachers willing to actually teach the class, which means finding a teacher who loves (or is willing to learn along with you) Tolkien. After finding a teacher, you'd have to go through all sorts of fun stuff (just picture me smirking right there) like talking to the principal, having nice long chats with whoever at your school is in charge of class scheduling; the Board of Education at your school would almost certainly get involved, as well as a number of parents (because, annoyingly enough, that's just how these things work). But if you are interested enough (and think the class would generate enough interest amongst other students), than I highly suggest looking into it. Start out by asking a favorite teacher or someone like that how you would go about starting a new class. Teachers would know far better than me how things would work in their own schools.

Fea

[Encaitare]

Enca thanks for mentioning 1984 and am sorry you didn't enjoy it (may I ask why not?) but I love being an Orwellian!!! hehehehe.

I just hate having to read at the same pace with a class -- which I think is the main thing alot of us lose interest in alot of these amazing books. -- InklingElf

I know! I usually read the whole book while everyone is discussing it in class and then space out for the rest of the several weeks we spend on it.

I didn't like 1984 because it had a very unhappy ending. I liked it when Winston and Julia were getting away with their happy secret lives, but then the fact that they were caught and broken just ruined it for me. I love stories about a couple of people beating the system -- or a certain ring-forging Dark Lord (and don't we all? ) and when the system turns around and delivers the smackdown on these poor hapless people, I think it's a major bummer. Same with Animal Farm, and the Chocolate War. I did like "Anthem," though, much of the same concept as 1984 only with a happier ending.

Today I went to buy my books ($$$$), and in one of my classes I had to purchase nine different books. Including Beowulf, The Canterbury Tales, and an anthology that includes British Literature from the Middle Ages to the present (But alas no LOTR). -- Gorwingel

Is this book by any chance called "From Beowulf to Modern British Writers" and compiled by John Ball? If so, I have it and it's awesome.

[Gorwingel]

Is this book by any chance called "From Beowulf to Modern British Writers" and compiled by John Ball? If so, I have it and it's awesome.

No, the book is actually The Longman Anthology: British Literature Volume A The Middle Ages, The Early Modern Period, and The Restoration and the Eighteenth Century

The copy of Beowulf is seperate. I have the translation by Seamus Heaney, which I am guessing is quite new. It was also a NY Times bestseller, but I have never heard of it (Well I have heard of Beowulf, but not of this translation)

[Lalwendë]

It's great to see that universities in the US appear to have taken onboard Tolkien - is this a sign that they are more progressive? I'd be interested to know if any universities in the UK offer the opportunity to study Tolkien as an option. The nearest you could come to it here is by doing a final year dissertation, but then this would only be acceptable if you could find a tutor able or wiling to mentor you through it and mark it at the end. Certainly when I did my degree this would have been a big problem; I had enough trouble finding a tutor who could mark a piece of work I did on Kurt Vonnegut (for my final dissertation I elected to write a volume of poetry).

I think one of the problems in this country would be the stick the university concerned would get from the media. Universities suffer enough simply by offering courses such as history of art or media - the tabloids shout "waste of tax-payers' money". Recently one university offered surfing as an option and this has caused controversy - despite the course being heavily centred on science and business, and surfing being a huge part of the Cornish economy. I can imagine the headlines if Tolkien became a subject in our universities. Sigh.

But, Beowulf translated by Seamus Heaney - this is bound to be excellent, he's a fantastic poet.

[tar-ancalime]

Yes, Seamus Heaney is a wonderful poet! I'm sure his Beowulf is amazing. If you've got a chance, read some of his other poems as well.

And Fea,

one that I can't remember the title of, that dealt with a slightly mental kid being extremely jealous of his best friend, the plot culminating in said best friend dying because of actions of said mental kid.

Could that have been A Separate Peace?