Grieg for Gimli, Schumann for Saruman - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

mark12_30 · 08-20-2004, 10:40 AM

Name a character and the classical music piece that would be most appropriate, either generally, or for a particular event.

Keep it classical. Kudos if you Include a sample-link.

~~~

Gimli and all his stocky relatives: In The Hall of the Mountain King, by Grieg. track four

Hobbits tiptoeing from tree to tree through the forest: Tschaikovsky's Danse des cygnes. track three

Elrond perusing dwarf-maps: Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata. also track four (...And I do think Elrond would be pleased with Vladimir Horowitz.)

Mithalwen · 08-20-2004, 11:29 AM

second movement of Beethoven's Piano Concerto No 5 "Emperor" for the fellowship leaving Lorien ...... sorry I have not the skill to link ....

http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/beeth...iano_con5.html

unless this works ... oh it stops just as it gets going boo hiss

Morsul the Dark · 08-20-2004, 11:57 AM

Balrog "Obsession in D-" dont have a link sorry

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 08-20-2004, 12:26 PM

How nice to get a thread about classical music for once!
Bach: Brandenburg Concerto No.1 Allegro is young Faramir in Minas Tirith trying to embrace the idea of little "prince's" duties (and yes, I know that he wasn't a prince but I'm speaking allegorically here).
ps. As for the link, you have to scroll down to "Listen to Samples" and pick the first one. I tried, but couldn't make the link work properly

Imladris · 08-20-2004, 12:59 PM

The elves awaking the trees to become ents (that may be a crude statement of what actually happened but I'm sure you all know what I mean): Vivaldi's Spring Allegro Track one...

Lalwendë · 08-20-2004, 02:14 PM

I hope these work, as me and music and technology is not a good mix. Music is for vinyl (or CDs...)!

Ralph Vaughan Williams The Lark Ascending not for any one character, but for The Shire.

More Vaughan Williams Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis which I think fits with Bilbo's leaving of The Shire.

Link to page with Vaughan Williams samples

Holst's Mars would go with any battle, but especially with the armies of Sauron marching for Helm's Deep. And Holst's Jupiter suits Tom Bombadil as Jupiter is the "bringer of jollity".

Link to page with Holst samples

Mozart's Dies Irae from Requiem is diabolical so I think might suit Saruman.

Link to page with Mozart samples

And Elgar's Nimrod would go with a solemn moment such as the fall of Theoden in battle - probably influenced by hearing it at so many Remembrance Sunday ceremonies.

Link to page with Elgar samples

mark12_30 · 08-20-2004, 02:41 PM

Some of these are really lovely!

Immy, thanks for the 4 Seasons-- always a delight.

Lalwendë, your selctions sound intriguing. I don't know any of them and the links won't work (forme anyway. ) Maybe rather than linking the music itself, try linking the page the links to the music are on.

DSOU-- Brandenburg! Classy.

And Mithalwen: that Beethoven concerto intro got my interest going. Maybe after I buy Swan Lake (complete) and Sleeping Beauty (complete) I'll start looking at Beethoven concertos. I like his passion.

mark12_30 · 08-20-2004, 02:59 PM

By the way, Aiwendil wrote a magnificent essay-- scroll to post 48 for essay link -- with lots of lovely samples. Highly interesting.

Fordim Hedgethistle · 08-20-2004, 03:13 PM

The "Lacrimosa" from Mozart's Requiem mass for the journey of Boromir's body to and then over the falls of Rauros.

Kransha · 08-21-2004, 08:15 AM

You people have good taste. As I've always been a bit of a classical afficionado, I'll just input my two sense, quite centsibly....or is that, my two cents, quite sensibly. Pity I can't provide any links. Just look 'em up, you'll find 'em. All of these are relatively well-known and widespread.

Molto Vivace, Symphony #9, Ludwig Von Beethoven
Very much Merry and Pippin for me. It's a bit minor, a bit major, and always switching if you notice. It's never sad, or too grand. Just right. Very jumpy, very spritely, somewhat comic at times, but with resonating seriousness and conscious undertones (does that make any sense whatsoever, hmm?).

Slavic March (March Slav), Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky
This is, of course semi-patriotic, but only in a very dreary way. For most of the piece, it is simply dreary, but two sections are quite the opposite. Contrary to being uplifting, though, the two sections are more happy in a way associated with conquest, resonating the Russian's penchant for remaining in the minor key. This seems ideal for many baddies. I would vote for the theme of Mordor, or at least it's orcs. It has the grand scale of Sauron's wroth with the steady, resilient, and forceful beat of an orcish march.

Egmont Overture, Ludwig Von Beethoven
Gondor, or just Denethor. Hard to say. It's not really creepy or evil enough to be Denethor, so I vote for Minas Tirith. It has all the triumphant, resounding chords of a grand city, set in with the eerie minor of Mordor's shadow. Some parts of it are either too eerie or too tranquil, but Beethoven was writing before Tolkien, so I'll cut him the adequate amount of slack. He was quite a composer, and this is one of my favorites of his (overtures at least). If the 5th Symphony weren't already a stereotype on it's own, I'd nominate that too.

Dies Irae, Requiem, Wolfganf Amadeus Mozart
Though this was cast as having the diabolicability of Saruman, I think it is far more apt for the Nazgul. If you listen to Howard Shore's composition for the Nazgul ('The Revelation of the Ringwraiths') the undertones of this are more than a little apparent. As one of the three most famous requiem/durges in history, this has a 'special' place in my heart as a long time favorite. Even though Mozart has better works (operatic and symphonic), this has all the passion of his last months of life, a kind of passion that most are unable to understand. Also, at this time, Mozart, according to conspiracy theories, was on death's door and pouring the last ounce of his being into this (I dunno, but it's a theory). Just the thing for corrupted kings, fallen from grace.

Overture, Water Music Suite, George Friedrich Handel
Maybe too grandiose, but this really feels like Rivendell to me. Maybe Elrond. It's very epic, very sweeping, very big, but not pockmarked by too much staccato. It's just long and soothing enough to be Elven, just the right mix. Also, the semi-baroque style seems fitting for the House of Elrond. Also, when I hear this, I think of Gondolin, but that's more from the Silmarillion.

Morning Mood, Peer Gynt Suite, Edvard Grieg
This is, almost certainly, a Shire piece. It's more than a little catered to it. It seems like a generic hobbit theme, but might be particular. If anything, it might be Sam's or Bilbo's music, at least at the beginning of The Fellowship. It is calm, homely, and reeks of gardening and happy birdsongs, so it seems rather apt for Samwise Gamgee. It's not boisterous enough for Merry, Pippin, or the Gaffer.

tar-ancalime · 08-21-2004, 08:31 AM

My husband and I both noticed that Howard Shore's Shire music sounds more than a little like the second movement of Dvorak's 9th symphony. Kransha, the Grieg you mention is in much the same vein. Sounds like you and Howard Shore are of the same mind.

But for my own suggestions:

Gorecki's Third Symphony for the Paths of the Dead.

Bach's Cello Suites in Rivendell.

"Dido's Lament" ("when I am laid in earth") from Purcell's Dido and Aeneas for Eowyn riding into battle.

This may seem like an odd choice, but the opening of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring for the Old Forest.

Thumbs up to this thread! I'm glad there are other classical music lovers here.

Mithalwen · 08-21-2004, 12:15 PM

I suppose being English, I have to fight the mental urge to mentally play the Elgar Cello Sonata with regard to the Shire and specifically Frodo's relationship to it .... it has a very Autumnal feel ..... it is a cliche but it is also still one of my desert island choices and the piece that tuned me in to classical music .....DuPre & Barbarolli .... od course...

I got this recording for my birthday and I love it ... how about " Winter " winter in Rivendell as the fellowship start out?

http://www.sonymusicstore.com/store/...6904-90916-chp

I fell in love with that bit of Beethoven when I saw the Peter Weir film "Picnic at Hanging Rock" one of those pieces I find so moving I find my self crying when I listen to it.........

Oh what good taste we have

...love Dido's Lament

Only trouble is I think I am doing this the wrong way round and trying to fing scenes for my favourite music rather than vice versa ..... How about Faure's In Paradisum for the grey havens.....

And for some reason I keep hearing Gandalf singing the bass arias from "Messiah" and the Commendatore fom Don Giovanni......

To side track .... no I'll start a new topic...

Encaitare · 08-21-2004, 09:40 PM

Pachelbel's Canon in D somehow reminds me of Nienna, the Valar's mourner. It's somewhat melancholy but very beautiful. Perhaps in relation to the Two Trees as well, as Nienna mourns them and then eventually they lead to the Sun and Moon's creation, explaining the uplifting final chord.

I'm also in love with Doppler's "Fantaisie Pastorale Hongroise" (sp?) and I think its pretty elfy. It's got sad parts, flighty glissando parts, and seems to capture their various aspects.

Sorry no links, my computer doesn't take well to media downloads. I am sure if you want to hear them badly enough you can find 'em!

Mithalwen · 08-22-2004, 11:56 AM

Oh I think the Canon is lovely but Nienna is such an isolated figure that I tend to think of solo pieces for her .... but then in the context you give it is one of her rare visits to valinor and she is "working" in cooperation with Yavanna.... so it works...

How about "ombre mai fu " from Serse, for the party tree replacing mallorn? ..... the tune is better known as "Handel's Largo" but very roughly translated from italian, the words are " Never was the shade of any tree so dear, beloved, and sweet"

Lalwendë · 08-23-2004, 01:23 PM

How about Saint-Saens and Danse Macabre for Gollum?

I hope these links are working by the way, it's getting me all irate...I'm so rubbish at things like that.

mark12_30 · 08-23-2004, 07:29 PM

Lalwendë, I didn't get a clip from the british Amazon site but going to the American one there were clips. (www.amazon.com)

Anyone here familiar with Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty? In the prelude, during the Christening scene, the fairy dances of blessing , almost the whole prelude... all remind me of elves & hobbits in the woods.

Sleeping Beauty exerpts

Child of the 7th Age · 08-31-2004, 11:43 AM

Encaitare

Quote:

Pachelbel's Canon in D somehow reminds me of Nienna, the Valar's mourner. It's somewhat melancholy but very beautiful.

Actually, for similar reasons I always hear the Canon playing in my head during the final Grey Havens scenes in the book as Frodo and the Elves depart.

Mithalwen · 08-31-2004, 12:37 PM

I find it hard to get beyond the Stephen Oliver setting of Bilbo's last song for the Havens .... After so long it is embedded in my brain and I would like it at my funeral eventually ... the treble soars away on the last note along the straight road..... but for something not written for the occasion the Faure Requiem maybe .... In Paridisum but I can't fing a link...

mark12_30 · 08-31-2004, 12:48 PM

I love Faure's Requiem!

If I had to choose something for The Grey Havens... something *really* sad from Tchaikovsky. Perhaps Odette's opening scene from Swan Lake.... Track one.

Mithalwen · 08-31-2004, 12:54 PM

Yes ... but for the havens ..... it isn't unmitigated grief and sadness ....which is why the Canon works nicely because there is that sense of positive resolution .... parting is devastating ... but they are going to the blessed realm ... something sad and cathartic but not despairing ..... tchaikovsky ballet music was teh first cassetes I got but I haven't listened for years ... must check that out.....

mark12_30 · 08-31-2004, 01:08 PM

Quote:

it isn't unmitigated grief and sadness

Why do you think I can't look at the last chapter of the book anymore? Of course it is....

Mithalwen · 08-31-2004, 01:12 PM

But they are going to Eressea ...They have finished their task.. Elrond and Celebrian will be reunited.... Frodo will be out of pain ...... - but obviously you see it in a different way ....... I like the last chapter and Gandalf being vaguely nice for once ....

Gil-Galad · 08-31-2004, 01:28 PM

Ode to Joy for Destruction of the Black gate...

Some song from Warcraft 3 "A call to Arms" for when the Rohirrim come to the battle, or anything Battle-related really

http://www.blizzard.com/war3/mp3s/ right at the bottom to download it...its rather interesting, it builds up to a point then it feels like reinforcments have arrived

Encaitare · 08-31-2004, 03:42 PM

Oh, now that I think of it I agree, Canon could definitely be used for the Havens. The sorrow of parting, followed up by the eventually peace and happiness Frodo and his companions find. Mithalwen is right, the positive resolution is very important -- it's what keeps the piece from being too dark.

Mithalwen · 09-01-2004, 01:07 PM

Well you inspired the thought really when you were talking about it before .... it is funny how one chord can change the mood.... although the canon is usually played without it's gigue ... that chord does give the sense of it being the end of a movement not the final end of the work ..... again quite appropriate for the havens ...as is the interplay of the instruments ..... the harmony ...there is tension but no discord no argument .... I might almost say that 3 violins could be the hobbits and Gandalf the cello holding it all together ... btu perhaps that is a step too far..

Encaitare · 09-01-2004, 01:18 PM

I don't think it's a step too far, I like that idea. Which three hobbits would you say? Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo?

Quote:

there is tension but no discord no argument

Very true. Each instrument is equally important and plays in accordance with the theme, without competition, as though they have this deeper understanding of one another as the characters truly do by the time they reach the Havens.

Mithalwen · 09-02-2004, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Encaitare

I don't think it's a step too far, I like that idea. Which three hobbits would you say? Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo?

I couldn't quite decide ... Maybe Frodo, Sam and Merry&Pippin ... who more or less speak with one voice here...

Encaitare · 09-02-2004, 06:29 PM

That could work, too. In my mind, though, I think it's still Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo, because they are the ones who sailed (although not then for Sam.)

Mithalwen · 09-03-2004, 10:46 AM

Well my other theory excluded not only Bilbo ( who is obviously so near death anyway) but also Gandalf .... in this scenario the cello continuo is Frodo, quiet, calm and decided on his course of action and the three violins Sam, Merry and Pippin who are stunned,attempt to persuade, grieve and then fall into acceptance and harmony in the last bars... I guess that may work better....

Encaitare · 09-03-2004, 11:56 AM

Ooh, I like that one better! I will never listen to the Canon the same way again! ... In fact I'll listen to it right now.

Yes, this seems to be working. At the beginning, the cello (Frodo) begins the theme and the violins (Sam, Merry, Pippin) play the same thing. Then the theme splits and they play in harmony, which is perhaps the friendship they all share, showing how they have become closer and now understand one another better. Then one or two violins break off and play the slightly faster accompaniment, which could be the surprise and shock felt when Frodo reveals that he's leaving. When it gets quiet after this, it is Frodo explaining why he must leave. It then loudens once more, perhaps protest against these reasons, but then it becomes a little quieter and the notes are longer, showing that Frodo knows what he must do and cannot be swayed. Then it adopts a sadder sound, which is acceptance. From this point, you can certainly envision Frodo going to each of his friends, exhanging embraces and farewells, last of all Sam, which is when the one violin goes up higher than the rest, very emotionally. As the violin goes down to join the rest, it seems that Sam feels great grief but knows that what his master is doing is for the best and he must "remain whole" for the time and fall back into the mays of the Shire. The final chord is Frodo stepping onto the boat, knowing that he will find peace, and his friends know it too and do not wish to hinder him.

I know there are many variations done on this piece, so I am just going with the one I have. This one's got a harpsichord in it, beginning the piece and then just playing the chords in the background for the rest of it. Perhaps the reassuring sound of the harpsichord could be Gandalf, who provided an aid to them all in their adventures.

A friend of mine from band has this piece as a flute quartet... now with my new perspective on it I have to find her and demand the sheet music!

Arothir · 09-04-2004, 11:18 AM

For some reason, I think a Saruman scene should have "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" being played. And maybe 1812 Overture for the pyre of Denthor.

Mithalwen · 09-08-2004, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arothir

For some reason, I think a Saruman scene should have "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" being played.

LOL I am now imagining a strange combination of Christopher Lee and Mickey Mouse!!!!!!

mark12_30 · 09-08-2004, 12:03 PM

I have ordered new copies of Swan Lake and Sleeping Beauty (both complete.) As they were my main source of elvish and hobbitish imagery (the music, not the ballets) I expect to be re-inspired when they arrive. I shall post accordingly.

Arothir: 1812 for the Pyre of Denethor... His pyre inspires you to celebration?

Sorcerer's Apprentice...

Arothir · 09-08-2004, 03:04 PM

1812 overture reminds me of explosions and fire, so that's why I think it'd be cool to have that for the Pyre.

03-31-2005, 01:45 PM

If the LOTR soundtrack had to have been filched from existing classical music, my top suggestions would be:

The Shire:
Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony (1st, 2nd or 5th movements), with Bilbo's party characterised by the 3rd movement 'Peasants' Merrymaking'

Another theme for the four hobbits early in the Fellowship :
The fourth movement of Prokofiev's Classical symphony, fast and carefree.

The Black Riders:
'Dies Irae' from Verdi's Requiem

Isengard:
'Mars' from The Planets, in the same 5/4 time as Howard Shore's theme

Fellowship's trek south (where Gandalf leads the way)
'Jupiter' from the Planets (Holst), the slow middle section

Gollum's theme:
The twisted and sly 'The Gnome' from Mussorgsky's Pictures From an Exhibition.

Frodo and Sam's journey in Mordor and the destruction of the One Ring:
The March to the Scaffold, from Symphonie Fantastique by Berlioz. The music becomes violent towards the end (Frodo and Gollum ?), there is a piercing oboe theme (Gollum's last 'Precious!') and the whole ends in a drum roll (the Ring's destruction).

The battle of Helm's Deep, given its 'Nordic' character:
'Finlandia' by Sibelius would be perfect, with its triumphant finale.

The Battle of the Black Gate:
The third and fourth movements of Beethoven's 5th symphony would be good there, as Sauron's doubt could be marked by the switch from minor to major key, and the collapse of the Barad-Dur the magnificent finale.

The Hobbits' return to the Shire:
The second movement of Dvorak's New World symphony (the oboe solo), appropriately based on the folksong "Goin' Home"

Gil-Galad · 03-31-2005, 03:54 PM

I can just imagine 'The Flight of the Valkiryres' to the NAzgul's attack on Minas Tirith...

Ainaserkewen · 03-31-2005, 07:47 PM

Chorale from Jupiter - Holst
Jupiter has already been mentioned above, but the Chorale is quite different. I you're in a concert band and you've played it then you understand what a special song it is and how it just seems to throb. I'm matching this song as Frodo's theme song. Not because of any references to Jupiter, only that the chords reflect Hope and movement. Here's a link and if you can imagine this song played live in a huge theater, then you can almost feel the 3/4 heartbeat of it.
St. Amant High band concert 2004

EDIT: Actually, I kind of like this year better:
2001

AbercrombieOfRohan · 03-31-2005, 07:53 PM

I'm not sure if you would count Jeremy Cohen as classical, but he's usually labeled as classical/jazz so... his piece Felicia always reminds me of Merry and Pippin getting into trouble, especially stealing fireworks.

Orominuialwen · 04-01-2005, 07:07 PM

Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis, by Vaughan Williams, always reminds me of Boromir's death. I probably associate this piece with death and sadness because I first heard it in the movie Master and Commander, where it is only played when characters die. It's the first of the samples.

Quote:

The battle of Helm's Deep, given its 'Nordic' character: 'Finlandia' by Sibelius would be perfect, with its triumphant finale.

I've always loved that piece. It's great!

04-02-2005, 03:48 AM

I was listening tp the radio last night and found another classical piece to match a scene from 'ROTK'

The appearance of the Rohirrim at dawn and the subsequent cavalry charge could again have been orchestratd by Sibelius, this time by the powerful Intermezzo from the 'Karelia Suite'.

At a risk of sounding hackneyed, the coronation of Aragorn could have 'Zadok the Priest' (Handel) as background music.

And finally, if another film theme had to be used, the Ents' breaching of the Isengard dams and the flooding of Saruman's workshops would have just had to have used Eric Coates' Dambusters March.

08-20-2004, 10:40 AM	#1
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Grieg for Gimli, Schumann for Saruman Name a character and the classical music piece that would be most appropriate, either generally, or for a particular event. Keep it classical. Kudos if you Include a sample-link. ~~~ Gimli and all his stocky relatives: In The Hall of the Mountain King, by Grieg. track four Hobbits tiptoeing from tree to tree through the forest: Tschaikovsky's Danse des cygnes. track three Elrond perusing dwarf-maps: Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata. also track four (...And I do think Elrond would be pleased with Vladimir Horowitz.) __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

08-20-2004, 11:29 AM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	second movement of Beethoven's Piano Concerto No 5 "Emperor" for the fellowship leaving Lorien ...... sorry I have not the skill to link .... http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/beeth...iano_con5.html unless this works ... oh it stops just as it gets going boo hiss __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 08-20-2004 at 11:34 AM.

08-20-2004, 11:57 AM	#3
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	Balrog "Obsession in D-" dont have a link sorry __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

08-20-2004, 12:26 PM	#4
dancing spawn of ungoliant Mischievous Candle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: So near to Russia, so far from Japan, quite a long way from Cairo, lots of miles from Vietnam. Posts: 1,234	How nice to get a thread about classical music for once! Bach: Brandenburg Concerto No.1 Allegro is young Faramir in Minas Tirith trying to embrace the idea of little "prince's" duties (and yes, I know that he wasn't a prince but I'm speaking allegorically here). ps. As for the link, you have to scroll down to "Listen to Samples" and pick the first one. I tried, but couldn't make the link work properly __________________ Fenris Wolf Last edited by dancing spawn of ungoliant; 08-20-2004 at 12:30 PM.

08-20-2004, 12:59 PM	#5
Imladris Tears of the Phoenix Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby. Posts: 1,453	The elves awaking the trees to become ents (that may be a crude statement of what actually happened but I'm sure you all know what I mean): Vivaldi's Spring Allegro Track one... __________________ I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. I'm your huckleberry.

08-20-2004, 02:14 PM	#6
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	I hope these work, as me and music and technology is not a good mix. Music is for vinyl (or CDs...)! Ralph Vaughan Williams The Lark Ascending not for any one character, but for The Shire. More Vaughan Williams Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis which I think fits with Bilbo's leaving of The Shire. Link to page with Vaughan Williams samples Holst's Mars would go with any battle, but especially with the armies of Sauron marching for Helm's Deep. And Holst's Jupiter suits Tom Bombadil as Jupiter is the "bringer of jollity". Link to page with Holst samples Mozart's Dies Irae from Requiem is diabolical so I think might suit Saruman. Link to page with Mozart samples And Elgar's Nimrod would go with a solemn moment such as the fall of Theoden in battle - probably influenced by hearing it at so many Remembrance Sunday ceremonies. Link to page with Elgar samples Last edited by Lalwendë; 08-21-2004 at 10:15 AM. Reason: Dodgy links

08-20-2004, 02:41 PM	#7
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Some of these are really lovely! Immy, thanks for the 4 Seasons-- always a delight. Lalwendë, your selctions sound intriguing. I don't know any of them and the links won't work (forme anyway. ) Maybe rather than linking the music itself, try linking the page the links to the music are on. DSOU-- Brandenburg! Classy. And Mithalwen: that Beethoven concerto intro got my interest going. Maybe after I buy Swan Lake (complete) and Sleeping Beauty (complete) I'll start looking at Beethoven concertos. I like his passion. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

08-20-2004, 02:59 PM	#8
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	By the way, Aiwendil wrote a magnificent essay-- scroll to post 48 for essay link -- with lots of lovely samples. Highly interesting. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

08-20-2004, 03:13 PM	#9
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	The "Lacrimosa" from Mozart's Requiem mass for the journey of Boromir's body to and then over the falls of Rauros. __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.

08-21-2004, 08:15 AM	#10
Kransha Ubiquitous Urulóki Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The port of Mars, where Famine, Sword, and Fire, leash'd in like hounds, crouch for employment Posts: 747	You people have good taste. As I've always been a bit of a classical afficionado, I'll just input my two sense, quite centsibly....or is that, my two cents, quite sensibly. Pity I can't provide any links. Just look 'em up, you'll find 'em. All of these are relatively well-known and widespread. Molto Vivace, Symphony #9, Ludwig Von Beethoven Very much Merry and Pippin for me. It's a bit minor, a bit major, and always switching if you notice. It's never sad, or too grand. Just right. Very jumpy, very spritely, somewhat comic at times, but with resonating seriousness and conscious undertones (does that make any sense whatsoever, hmm?). Slavic March (March Slav), Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky This is, of course semi-patriotic, but only in a very dreary way. For most of the piece, it is simply dreary, but two sections are quite the opposite. Contrary to being uplifting, though, the two sections are more happy in a way associated with conquest, resonating the Russian's penchant for remaining in the minor key. This seems ideal for many baddies. I would vote for the theme of Mordor, or at least it's orcs. It has the grand scale of Sauron's wroth with the steady, resilient, and forceful beat of an orcish march. Egmont Overture, Ludwig Von Beethoven Gondor, or just Denethor. Hard to say. It's not really creepy or evil enough to be Denethor, so I vote for Minas Tirith. It has all the triumphant, resounding chords of a grand city, set in with the eerie minor of Mordor's shadow. Some parts of it are either too eerie or too tranquil, but Beethoven was writing before Tolkien, so I'll cut him the adequate amount of slack. He was quite a composer, and this is one of my favorites of his (overtures at least). If the 5th Symphony weren't already a stereotype on it's own, I'd nominate that too. Dies Irae, Requiem, Wolfganf Amadeus Mozart Though this was cast as having the diabolicability of Saruman, I think it is far more apt for the Nazgul. If you listen to Howard Shore's composition for the Nazgul ('The Revelation of the Ringwraiths') the undertones of this are more than a little apparent. As one of the three most famous requiem/durges in history, this has a 'special' place in my heart as a long time favorite. Even though Mozart has better works (operatic and symphonic), this has all the passion of his last months of life, a kind of passion that most are unable to understand. Also, at this time, Mozart, according to conspiracy theories, was on death's door and pouring the last ounce of his being into this (I dunno, but it's a theory). Just the thing for corrupted kings, fallen from grace. Overture, Water Music Suite, George Friedrich Handel Maybe too grandiose, but this really feels like Rivendell to me. Maybe Elrond. It's very epic, very sweeping, very big, but not pockmarked by too much staccato. It's just long and soothing enough to be Elven, just the right mix. Also, the semi-baroque style seems fitting for the House of Elrond. Also, when I hear this, I think of Gondolin, but that's more from the Silmarillion. Morning Mood, Peer Gynt Suite, Edvard Grieg This is, almost certainly, a Shire piece. It's more than a little catered to it. It seems like a generic hobbit theme, but might be particular. If anything, it might be Sam's or Bilbo's music, at least at the beginning of The Fellowship. It is calm, homely, and reeks of gardening and happy birdsongs, so it seems rather apt for Samwise Gamgee. It's not boisterous enough for Merry, Pippin, or the Gaffer. __________________ "What mortal feels not awe/Nor trembles at our name, Hearing our fate-appointed power sublime/Fixed by the eternal law. For old our office, and our fame," -Aeschylus, Song of the Furies

08-21-2004, 08:31 AM	#11
tar-ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: abaft the beam Posts: 303	My husband and I both noticed that Howard Shore's Shire music sounds more than a little like the second movement of Dvorak's 9th symphony. Kransha, the Grieg you mention is in much the same vein. Sounds like you and Howard Shore are of the same mind. But for my own suggestions: Gorecki's Third Symphony for the Paths of the Dead. Bach's Cello Suites in Rivendell. "Dido's Lament" ("when I am laid in earth") from Purcell's Dido and Aeneas for Eowyn riding into battle. This may seem like an odd choice, but the opening of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring for the Old Forest. Thumbs up to this thread! I'm glad there are other classical music lovers here. __________________ Having fun wolfing it to the bitter end, I see, gaur-ancalime (lmp, ww13)

08-21-2004, 12:15 PM	#12
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	I suppose being English, I have to fight the mental urge to mentally play the Elgar Cello Sonata with regard to the Shire and specifically Frodo's relationship to it .... it has a very Autumnal feel ..... it is a cliche but it is also still one of my desert island choices and the piece that tuned me in to classical music .....DuPre & Barbarolli .... od course... I got this recording for my birthday and I love it ... how about " Winter " winter in Rivendell as the fellowship start out? http://www.sonymusicstore.com/store/...6904-90916-chp I fell in love with that bit of Beethoven when I saw the Peter Weir film "Picnic at Hanging Rock" one of those pieces I find so moving I find my self crying when I listen to it......... Oh what good taste we have ...love Dido's Lament Only trouble is I think I am doing this the wrong way round and trying to fing scenes for my favourite music rather than vice versa ..... How about Faure's In Paradisum for the grey havens..... And for some reason I keep hearing Gandalf singing the bass arias from "Messiah" and the Commendatore fom Don Giovanni...... To side track .... no I'll start a new topic... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-21-2004, 09:40 PM	#13
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Pachelbel's Canon in D somehow reminds me of Nienna, the Valar's mourner. It's somewhat melancholy but very beautiful. Perhaps in relation to the Two Trees as well, as Nienna mourns them and then eventually they lead to the Sun and Moon's creation, explaining the uplifting final chord. I'm also in love with Doppler's "Fantaisie Pastorale Hongroise" (sp?) and I think its pretty elfy. It's got sad parts, flighty glissando parts, and seems to capture their various aspects. Sorry no links, my computer doesn't take well to media downloads. I am sure if you want to hear them badly enough you can find 'em!

08-22-2004, 11:56 AM	#14
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Oh I think the Canon is lovely but Nienna is such an isolated figure that I tend to think of solo pieces for her .... but then in the context you give it is one of her rare visits to valinor and she is "working" in cooperation with Yavanna.... so it works... How about "ombre mai fu " from Serse, for the party tree replacing mallorn? ..... the tune is better known as "Handel's Largo" but very roughly translated from italian, the words are " Never was the shade of any tree so dear, beloved, and sweet" __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-23-2004, 01:23 PM	#15
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	How about Saint-Saens and Danse Macabre for Gollum? I hope these links are working by the way, it's getting me all irate...I'm so rubbish at things like that.

08-23-2004, 07:29 PM	#16
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Lalwendë, I didn't get a clip from the british Amazon site but going to the American one there were clips. (www.amazon.com) Anyone here familiar with Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty? In the prelude, during the Christening scene, the fairy dances of blessing , almost the whole prelude... all remind me of elves & hobbits in the woods. Sleeping Beauty exerpts __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

08-31-2004, 12:37 PM	#18
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	I find it hard to get beyond the Stephen Oliver setting of Bilbo's last song for the Havens .... After so long it is embedded in my brain and I would like it at my funeral eventually ... the treble soars away on the last note along the straight road..... but for something not written for the occasion the Faure Requiem maybe .... In Paridisum but I can't fing a link... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-31-2004, 12:48 PM	#19
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	I love Faure's Requiem! If I had to choose something for The Grey Havens... something really sad from Tchaikovsky. Perhaps Odette's opening scene from Swan Lake.... Track one. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

08-31-2004, 12:54 PM	#20
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Yes ... but for the havens ..... it isn't unmitigated grief and sadness ....which is why the Canon works nicely because there is that sense of positive resolution .... parting is devastating ... but they are going to the blessed realm ... something sad and cathartic but not despairing ..... tchaikovsky ballet music was teh first cassetes I got but I haven't listened for years ... must check that out..... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-31-2004, 01:12 PM	#22
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	But they are going to Eressea ...They have finished their task.. Elrond and Celebrian will be reunited.... Frodo will be out of pain ...... - but obviously you see it in a different way ....... I like the last chapter and Gandalf being vaguely nice for once .... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-31-2004, 01:28 PM	#23
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	Ode to Joy for Destruction of the Black gate... Some song from Warcraft 3 "A call to Arms" for when the Rohirrim come to the battle, or anything Battle-related really http://www.blizzard.com/war3/mp3s/ right at the bottom to download it...its rather interesting, it builds up to a point then it feels like reinforcments have arrived __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

08-31-2004, 03:42 PM	#24
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Oh, now that I think of it I agree, Canon could definitely be used for the Havens. The sorrow of parting, followed up by the eventually peace and happiness Frodo and his companions find. Mithalwen is right, the positive resolution is very important -- it's what keeps the piece from being too dark.

09-01-2004, 01:07 PM	#25
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Well you inspired the thought really when you were talking about it before .... it is funny how one chord can change the mood.... although the canon is usually played without it's gigue ... that chord does give the sense of it being the end of a movement not the final end of the work ..... again quite appropriate for the havens ...as is the interplay of the instruments ..... the harmony ...there is tension but no discord no argument .... I might almost say that 3 violins could be the hobbits and Gandalf the cello holding it all together ... btu perhaps that is a step too far.. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

09-02-2004, 06:29 PM	#28
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	That could work, too. In my mind, though, I think it's still Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo, because they are the ones who sailed (although not then for Sam.)

09-03-2004, 10:46 AM	#29
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,458	Well my other theory excluded not only Bilbo ( who is obviously so near death anyway) but also Gandalf .... in this scenario the cello continuo is Frodo, quiet, calm and decided on his course of action and the three violins Sam, Merry and Pippin who are stunned,attempt to persuade, grieve and then fall into acceptance and harmony in the last bars... I guess that may work better.... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

09-03-2004, 11:56 AM	#30
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Ooh, I like that one better! I will never listen to the Canon the same way again! ... In fact I'll listen to it right now. Yes, this seems to be working. At the beginning, the cello (Frodo) begins the theme and the violins (Sam, Merry, Pippin) play the same thing. Then the theme splits and they play in harmony, which is perhaps the friendship they all share, showing how they have become closer and now understand one another better. Then one or two violins break off and play the slightly faster accompaniment, which could be the surprise and shock felt when Frodo reveals that he's leaving. When it gets quiet after this, it is Frodo explaining why he must leave. It then loudens once more, perhaps protest against these reasons, but then it becomes a little quieter and the notes are longer, showing that Frodo knows what he must do and cannot be swayed. Then it adopts a sadder sound, which is acceptance. From this point, you can certainly envision Frodo going to each of his friends, exhanging embraces and farewells, last of all Sam, which is when the one violin goes up higher than the rest, very emotionally. As the violin goes down to join the rest, it seems that Sam feels great grief but knows that what his master is doing is for the best and he must "remain whole" for the time and fall back into the mays of the Shire. The final chord is Frodo stepping onto the boat, knowing that he will find peace, and his friends know it too and do not wish to hinder him. I know there are many variations done on this piece, so I am just going with the one I have. This one's got a harpsichord in it, beginning the piece and then just playing the chords in the background for the rest of it. Perhaps the reassuring sound of the harpsichord could be Gandalf, who provided an aid to them all in their adventures. A friend of mine from band has this piece as a flute quartet... now with my new perspective on it I have to find her and demand the sheet music!

09-04-2004, 11:18 AM	#31
Arothir Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: the Realm of Nargothrond beyond Narog Posts: 163	For some reason, I think a Saruman scene should have "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" being played. And maybe 1812 Overture for the pyre of Denthor. __________________ Then Felagund upon the head of Arothir set it: "Nephew mine, till I return this crown is thine."

09-08-2004, 12:03 PM	#33
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	I have ordered new copies of Swan Lake and Sleeping Beauty (both complete.) As they were my main source of elvish and hobbitish imagery (the music, not the ballets) I expect to be re-inspired when they arrive. I shall post accordingly. Arothir: 1812 for the Pyre of Denethor... His pyre inspires you to celebration? Sorcerer's Apprentice... __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

09-08-2004, 03:04 PM	#34
Arothir Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: the Realm of Nargothrond beyond Narog Posts: 163	1812 overture reminds me of explosions and fire, so that's why I think it'd be cool to have that for the Pyre. __________________ Then Felagund upon the head of Arothir set it: "Nephew mine, till I return this crown is thine."

03-31-2005, 01:45 PM	#35
Mark K Guest Posts: n/a	More musical cues If the LOTR soundtrack had to have been filched from existing classical music, my top suggestions would be: The Shire: Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony (1st, 2nd or 5th movements), with Bilbo's party characterised by the 3rd movement 'Peasants' Merrymaking' Another theme for the four hobbits early in the Fellowship : The fourth movement of Prokofiev's Classical symphony, fast and carefree. The Black Riders: 'Dies Irae' from Verdi's Requiem Isengard: 'Mars' from The Planets, in the same 5/4 time as Howard Shore's theme Fellowship's trek south (where Gandalf leads the way) 'Jupiter' from the Planets (Holst), the slow middle section Gollum's theme: The twisted and sly 'The Gnome' from Mussorgsky's Pictures From an Exhibition. Frodo and Sam's journey in Mordor and the destruction of the One Ring: The March to the Scaffold, from Symphonie Fantastique by Berlioz. The music becomes violent towards the end (Frodo and Gollum ?), there is a piercing oboe theme (Gollum's last 'Precious!') and the whole ends in a drum roll (the Ring's destruction). The battle of Helm's Deep, given its 'Nordic' character: 'Finlandia' by Sibelius would be perfect, with its triumphant finale. The Battle of the Black Gate: The third and fourth movements of Beethoven's 5th symphony would be good there, as Sauron's doubt could be marked by the switch from minor to major key, and the collapse of the Barad-Dur the magnificent finale. The Hobbits' return to the Shire: The second movement of Dvorak's New World symphony (the oboe solo), appropriately based on the folksong "Goin' Home"

03-31-2005, 03:54 PM	#36
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	I can just imagine 'The Flight of the Valkiryres' to the NAzgul's attack on Minas Tirith... __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

03-31-2005, 07:47 PM	#37
Ainaserkewen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A cosmic waiting room Posts: 651	Chorale from Jupiter - Holst Jupiter has already been mentioned above, but the Chorale is quite different. I you're in a concert band and you've played it then you understand what a special song it is and how it just seems to throb. I'm matching this song as Frodo's theme song. Not because of any references to Jupiter, only that the chords reflect Hope and movement. Here's a link and if you can imagine this song played live in a huge theater, then you can almost feel the 3/4 heartbeat of it. St. Amant High band concert 2004 EDIT: Actually, I kind of like this year better: 2001 __________________ Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken? Last edited by Ainaserkewen; 03-31-2005 at 07:51 PM.

03-31-2005, 07:53 PM	#38
AbercrombieOfRohan Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 311	I'm not sure if you would count Jeremy Cohen as classical, but he's usually labeled as classical/jazz so... his piece Felicia always reminds me of Merry and Pippin getting into trouble, especially stealing fireworks.

04-02-2005, 03:48 AM	#40
Mark K Guest Posts: n/a	Sibelius at the Pelennor I was listening tp the radio last night and found another classical piece to match a scene from 'ROTK' The appearance of the Rohirrim at dawn and the subsequent cavalry charge could again have been orchestratd by Sibelius, this time by the powerful Intermezzo from the 'Karelia Suite'. At a risk of sounding hackneyed, the coronation of Aragorn could have 'Zadok the Priest' (Handel) as background music. And finally, if another film theme had to be used, the Ents' breaching of the Isengard dams and the flooding of Saruman's workshops would have just had to have used Eric Coates' Dambusters March.