Oath and Oath Fullfillment - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Boromir88 · 07-27-2004, 09:32 PM

You not only have the "breaking" of oaths, but the "fullfillment" of oaths. Gollum's oath is one that stands out the most to me, making an oath that Sauron will never get the ring back. And that oath was fullfilled, whether by accident of Gollum just losing his footing and slipping off the edge, so what, he fullfilled his oath. Aragorn fullfills many smaller oaths throughout the oath, the biggest one his oath to return as king of Gondor. Something the movie did not show well, was the fact that Aragorn had the shards way back in Bree and was willing to become king. One of his smaller oaths, was his oath to Eomer to bring the sword to Rohan and fight. That oath agains was fullfilled. Eomer and Aragorn create a strong bond (which in a couple days you will be seeing a thread about).

Gurthang · 08-11-2004, 06:46 PM

So is there a point?

Encaitare · 08-26-2004, 09:06 PM

Aragorn also made the oath to help Frodo ("If by life or death I can protect you, I will.") which he kept at Weathertop, and by drawing Sauron's armies from the plains of Gorgoroth.

If we can expand this to include characters in the Sil, perhaps it could be added that Maedhros was the only one of the brothers to fulfill his oath (although after regaining the Silmaril he cast himself into a fiery chasm with it still in his hand). Maglor obtained one too but then of course cast it into the sea.

(I just noticed this thread never really went anywhere and decided to try and revive it... hopefully it won't be considered too close to the Oaths and Oathbreaking thread.)

Gothbogg the Ripper · 09-15-2004, 01:45 AM

Gollum sort of made an oath to Frodo but then fell into Mount Doom so I do think that there's something in them.

Zebedee · 09-18-2004, 07:36 PM

The men of Dunharrow made an oath they didn't keep and it burdened them so much that they got no rest even in death. The burden was lifted only after they fullfilled it.

Boromir88 · 09-19-2004, 03:15 PM

Quote:

I just noticed this thread never really went anywhere and decided to try and revive it.

And I Thank you for that Encaitare.

As for another oath I just remembered, the Men of Rohan's oath to Ghan-Buri-Ghan and the Woses. Ghan led Rohan around the orc lines, Rohan pledged to leave Ghan's men in peace.

Tuor of Gondolin · 09-20-2004, 11:15 AM

Hoping this comment isn't off topic:

Of course a key question is what happens if it is impossible or inherently evil to
fulfill an oath. Recall the debate in UT between Maglor and Maedhros, the
conclusion of which seemed odd to me. Why would two elves who had been in
Aman assume it was impossible to appeal to Iluvatar to negate their oath?

Even in a sort of Nordic-type M-E (as related to oaths and oath-taking) you'd
think the pre-Christian Christian philosophy which seems implicit in Middle-earth
would allow some sort of "escape clause" when fullfilling an oath was impossible or evil.

Gurthang · 09-28-2004, 09:49 AM

Back when the horse-lords first came down to help Gondor, Eorl pledged that the Rohirrim would come to Gondor's aid in other times of trouble. As a result, they were given the land which became Rohan. That oath is key in the story because Theoden decided to follow it and went in haste to Minas Tirith. Had he not fulfilled this oath, the story would have had a much different ending.

07-27-2004, 09:32 PM	#1
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,519	Oath and Oath Fullfillment You not only have the "breaking" of oaths, but the "fullfillment" of oaths. Gollum's oath is one that stands out the most to me, making an oath that Sauron will never get the ring back. And that oath was fullfilled, whether by accident of Gollum just losing his footing and slipping off the edge, so what, he fullfilled his oath. Aragorn fullfills many smaller oaths throughout the oath, the biggest one his oath to return as king of Gondor. Something the movie did not show well, was the fact that Aragorn had the shards way back in Bree and was willing to become king. One of his smaller oaths, was his oath to Eomer to bring the sword to Rohan and fight. That oath agains was fullfilled. Eomer and Aragorn create a strong bond (which in a couple days you will be seeing a thread about).

08-11-2004, 06:46 PM	#2
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	So is there a point? __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.

09-18-2004, 07:36 PM	#5
Zebedee Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 61	The men of Dunharrow made an oath they didn't keep and it burdened them so much that they got no rest even in death. The burden was lifted only after they fullfilled it. __________________ If at first you don't succed, then skydiving isn't for you.

09-20-2004, 11:15 AM	#7
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	Hoping this comment isn't off topic: Of course a key question is what happens if it is impossible or inherently evil to fulfill an oath. Recall the debate in UT between Maglor and Maedhros, the conclusion of which seemed odd to me. Why would two elves who had been in Aman assume it was impossible to appeal to Iluvatar to negate their oath? Even in a sort of Nordic-type M-E (as related to oaths and oath-taking) you'd think the pre-Christian Christian philosophy which seems implicit in Middle-earth would allow some sort of "escape clause" when fullfilling an oath was impossible or evil. __________________ Aure Entuluva! Last edited by Tuor of Gondolin; 09-20-2004 at 11:18 AM.

09-28-2004, 09:49 AM	#8
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	Back when the horse-lords first came down to help Gondor, Eorl pledged that the Rohirrim would come to Gondor's aid in other times of trouble. As a result, they were given the land which became Rohan. That oath is key in the story because Theoden decided to follow it and went in haste to Minas Tirith. Had he not fulfilled this oath, the story would have had a much different ending. __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.

08-26-2004, 09:06 PM	#3
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Aragorn also made the oath to help Frodo ("If by life or death I can protect you, I will.") which he kept at Weathertop, and by drawing Sauron's armies from the plains of Gorgoroth. If we can expand this to include characters in the Sil, perhaps it could be added that Maedhros was the only one of the brothers to fulfill his oath (although after regaining the Silmaril he cast himself into a fiery chasm with it still in his hand). Maglor obtained one too but then of course cast it into the sea. (I just noticed this thread never really went anywhere and decided to try and revive it... hopefully it won't be considered too close to the Oaths and Oathbreaking thread.)

09-15-2004, 01:45 AM	#4
Gothbogg the Ripper Wight Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southend,U.K Posts: 113	Gollum sort of made an oath to Frodo but then fell into Mount Doom so I do think that there's something in them.