Movie remakes?

[Knight of Gondor]

I was discussing this idea with my brother and sister over some pizza this evening. My brother commented that the youngsters (teens, probably, mostly) that are being wowed by Lord of the Rings on the big screen are invididually jotting down ideas for how they would improve on Jackson's adaptation. More accurate book-to-movie translations, more accurate-looking characters, whatever. We all agreed that even with the advent of newer special effects, none could match up our beloved trilogy.

Do you think they would try to remake Lord of the Rings twenty, thirty years down the road? Do you think they could improve it at all? In my opinion, even if they did, they would concentrate solely on special effects to make it look better -- losing all of the emotional feeling that worked so well for New Line's version.

What would you want to "one-up" on, if you were involved?

[Morsul the Dark]

they could make it more accurate to the book
however PJ was right to think it hard to keep an audience that is new to the trilogy interested
then again I read the trilogy after i saw the first movie so i would never had experienced the book had i not seen the movie so maybe there would be a larger audience

but i did like the casting for the trilogy

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, when I first saw the Bakshi film at the cinema (over 20 years ago), we thought that it was just about as close as film would ever get to visualising Middle-earth. How wrong we were!

Then again, it's difficult to imagine how it could be brought to life better on screen than it has been in Jackson's trilogy.

Erm, perhaps they could get the Wargs better next time ...

[Morsul the Dark]

i thought the wargs were rather well done Edit: I had trouble imaging orcs on wolves when I read the hobbit (I did read that before seeing the trilogy)End edit.

a few problems remain such as sam looking into the mirror of galadriel and expanding the part of the ents (the entds and sam being my favorite charactors.)

[Encaitare]

They definitely could expand upon it, but why redo something that's, for what it is, perfection? Sure, I would love to see the Scouring of the Shire and Tom Bombadil and a million other things, but I think the movies are gold and any attempt to redo them would be brilliant cinematically but somehow... I don't know how exactly to say it... old? Already done? Overused? As great as the movies are, I just don't think there's a need to redo them. Which is not to say that I wouldn't see the "updated" versions.

[The Only Real Estel]

I wouldn't be suprised, Knight, if there was a remake 30, 40 years down the road. A series as successful as LotR will mostly likely have plenty of interest in a remake, but whoever does it needs to make sure not to key on special effects. Obviously, they're going to be a lot better that far down the road, but I hope that acting in general will not have lost its believability (when it has that now) by then. As long as it hasn't, I plan to act in the next remake .

[Morsul the Dark]

As long as you leave one of the ents for me to act out especially treebeard

[radagastly]

As much as I'd like to see Tom, Old Man Willow, Goldberry and the Barrow Wight, it seems inevitable they will be skipped for the sake of momentum in the story.

I would like to see Frodo portrayed more courageously the way he is in the book. The movie made him kind of wimpy by comparison. I would like to see Sauron with a body--nine fingers and all, rather than some toy eyeball night-light (or better yet, not see him at all, like in the book--much more menacing that way.) I would like to see Eru's chosen representative on Middle-earth NOT club the leader of the free world into unconsciousness in front of his own private guards.

I would actually like to see more restraint with the special effects. Some of them were over the top for my taste and took away from the more personal aspects of the story.

Still, it would be hard to improve on the casting, or the art direction, or the music, all of which were exceptional. Of course, that hasn't stopped remakes in the past, and it won't stop this.

I have no doubt this will be re-done twenty or thirty years from now, if someone is so inclined.

[Saraphim]

Within twenty or thirty years, we'll most likely see a remake. That's the usual pattern movies have started taking these days.

Hopefully, by then I'll have gotten to make my dream into a reality; a movie of the Silmarillion.

[Lathriel]

If they made a remake the director would have a really tough job to match with PJ's achievement.

Also because I think that if the designs were too similar to PJ's version the movie wouldn't be interesting. The director would have to be very original since a lot of people see LOTR the way PJ sees it.

I think a remake would be interesting.

[Morsul the Dark]

movie was great well written and everything just more scenes could be added

Sam looking in the mirror scouring of the shire and expand on Frodo's plan to sell Bag End and indicate the 19 year difference these arent ultimately important but i think they are important enough

[Encaitare]

::gets big puppy-dog eyes::

Ooh, Saraphim, you MUST make a Silmarillion movie, just to make us all very very happy! I was actually wondering the other day if anyone ever would do it... but it would be truly awesome.

[InklingElf]

Silmarillion would be difficult -- you'd have to choose specific stories...and if you wanted to do it in chronological order all the way through -- you'd have to be some super-human like PJ. lots of money...etc...

I doubt anyone would even attempt a remake of LOTR for a loooong time. It's already considered a classic. And even if someone tried to make it again it would be critisized and compared to the original movies.

[Arwen Imladris]

I think that there could be a remake. The people who made LOTR also ended up making a lot of money. There are a lot of people who will want to try and get into that market again. It will take some time, but I definatly think that LOTR could be remade. Since the hardcore fans are mostly fans of the books, we will be able to deal with another actor playing the character of Frodo, for example. Now that they have had one run through, the next people who make it will know what they can get away with and what will make people mad.

A lot of the "mistakes" PJ made (like putting the elves at helms deep) he realized to late that it was not required. He originally put the elves there to get Arwen closer to Aragorn. He took Arwen out, but he had already filmed a lot of elves at helms deep and it was too late to change. A new LOTR could improve on the story in many ways. There will also likely be a bigger budget because of PJ's sucess.

I also know that a lot of people who have been inspired by LOTR. My sister, for example, is doing Film Studies, partly because she wants to be able to make things as good as LOTR. I'm sure that there are many who would give up everything to make LOTR again.

[Saraphim]

Well, Encaitare, I am quite serious about making the Silmarillion into a movie. Yesterday I was going through the book and looking for imperative scenes and I ended up with a two page list.

And I've got tiny writing.

So this is going to be difficult. I've decided to finish High School before I really get started, or I'll fail miserably. (at both school and the movie )

[Meela]

I'm currently writing a screenplay for a remake of Lord of the Rings. And Glorfindel's going right in.

The Silmarillion isn't the right material for a movie. It's more suited to a three or four part drama, which is how I'm planning it at the moment. I've seen a lot of great adaptations, all made into fantasy/entertainment dramas of two lengthy parts, and I see the Sil. as being successful in the same style.

I'll probably look into making Lotr about 8 or 10 years from now. There's no set time for remakes or two movies of the same storyline, although I think with an epic like Lotr it should be given enough time to be 'stored away'.

I'm not planning to use a lot of special effects. I'll try and shoot on a location as often as possible, ie. build my own sets like Edoras was built, or find a suitable spot for areas such as the Dead Marshes and just glam it up. I suppose in 8 or 10 years there'll be nothing but special effects, which is why I'm even more determined to 'go against the trend'. I like to do things differently.

I will bring in Glorfindel and various other left out characters, and use as much of the book 'directly' as I can get away with. I don't disagree with the over-use of Arwen, and I will include her and the romance in my movie, although only in the right places.
It's not really a case of improving, PJ did a great job in his own right. Not everything in the book can be successfully transferred to the screen, and I also expect to make changes where I feel the book isn't working towards movie material.
Tom Bombadil and the gang don't really work with the rest of the story as a whole. I'll either shoot the material and make a bonus disc for the book fans, or write him into a separate drama piece, like I'm doing with the Sil.

And I'm hoping to bring back Sean Bean.

[Morsul the Dark]

well when and if you do make a big announcement I'll audition for the part of Treebeard or one of the ents I bet the Black Froest would be a good on location spot for Fangorn

[Saraphim]

The Silmarillion isn't the right material for a movie. It's more suited to a three or four part drama, which is how I'm planning it at the moment. I've seen a lot of great adaptations, all made into fantasy/entertainment dramas of two lengthy parts, and I see the Sil. as being successful in the same style.

Yes, I saw this as well. I doubt it will interest companies enough to pick up on it. The biggest problem is the fact that it has no main character or characters in it during the whole story. And, many of the sub-plots are as long as most movies in the first place.

So, I'm looking at a low-budget business here, but I refuse to do a bad job of it.

[Morsul the Dark]

and that is why youre lucky to have the downs most members would gladly act in a tolkien movie just because of their fandom

[gorthaur_cruel]

I think that the best story from the Silmarillion for a movie is 'Narn i hin Hurin'. It seems to have the best storyline for a movie. The other stories each have these faults:

-Appearance of the Valar
The Valar are the equivelants of gods. They're mysterious, powerful beings. Unless done wonderfully well, I think that they wouldn't be good on film. This rules all much of the beginning of the Silmarillion, the War of Wrath, and Beren/Luthien. If Beren/Luthien does not have the part about Mandos, its whole theme is destroyed. Still, Beren/Luthien tale is the next best after Narn i hin Hurin, IMO.

-No Beginning or Ending
The tales that concern Elves have no clear beginning. Almost all the stories have no ending, as the main bad guy, Morgoth, never dies. However, in Turin's story, the main antagonist can be Glaurung instead of Morgoth. And he dies, along with Turin, so I don't think anybody can dispute about where that story ends.

Turin's story, however, has great potential to be made into a film. Not only does it have a good storyline, it is also the most detailed, having appeared in full in UT.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by gorthaur_cruel

-Appearance of the Valar
The Valar are the equivelants of gods. They're mysterious, powerful beings. Unless done wonderfully well, I think that they wouldn't be good on film.

You ever
Play Zelda:Majora's masks well the giants that hold the moon in the end...yeah thats how I picture the valar except Eru look kinda of like Aku and Melkor is like a big ape thing....

[Laitoste]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

and that is why youre lucky to have the downs most members would gladly act in a tolkien movie just because of their fandom

That doesn't mean they'll be good...Take me, for example. I love acting, I love movies, and plays, and musicals. But I suck at acting. Really badly. So badly that during a play in which my drama teacher just gave parts, I got the smallest. I had to run across the stage and scream.

Anyway, I'd like to see a remake (or a few). Despite the fact that some parts in the current movie version make me angry, for the most part, it's Peter Jackson's ideas about The Lord of the Rings. I'd like to see other people's ideas.

As for the Sil, I'm quite happy with that NOT being a movie...for now. I can keep all of my own ideas. Though I'm sure you'll do a great job, Saraphim, and of course I'll see it! (That's what's great about the cruel ignoring of Tom Bombadil. No traces of PJ&Co. on him at all!)

[Morsul the Dark]

well that would make it cheaper then some movie producer can be like hey theres a market for this and this guy knows what hes doing lets give him a crew and good actors...and i to fall under like acting but cant, i do voices really well though thats why if i do movies i want to do cartoons

[Encaitare]

I do hope that a Silm movie will be made (best of luck to you, Saraphim, I'm sure it'll be great!) but I'm glad at least I've read the book already and have been able to create my own images of everything (which I unfortunately did not do with FotR and TTT).

True, Narn i Hin Hurin has got everything... even romance! Incestuous, perhaps, but awww... didn't Turin and Nienor make such a lovely couple?

I would love to see the Lay of Leithian made into a movie even more, though, just because it's my favorite.

[Knight of Gondor]

Yeah, if you make a movie, you've got to hold auditions from your fellow BDers!

[Saraphim]

Of course! The BD'ers are all my first pick, both for acting and behind-the-scenes work. I need all the help I can get, especially from fans like you guys.
The Children of Hurin tale is a must, and of course I can't leave out Beren and Luthien, because in addition to being really amazing, it is directly linked to the plot.

Yes, I have been worrying about the Valar, gorthaur_cruel. I simply cannot imagine how to show them, or the Creation of Arda, even though I have a clear picture in my mind about it. Also, you're right about the fact that none of the stories of the Elves have clear beginnings or endings. In fact, the whole book has no clear ending, at least one that can easily be shown in movie form anyway.

Difficulties. Ah well. If I do not find a way, someone will.

[Morsul the Dark]

We believe in you. I am sure the vakar though deficult can be portrayed. perhaps elf-like they create elves in their image Yavanna kind of entish Ale(created Dwarfs?) kindof dwarflike make them look like their creations you know kind of like I created these people after my own image thing....Thats confusing but do you know what I mean?

[Saraphim]

That's a splendid idea Morsul! See, I knew what I was doing when I mentioned it on the Downs!

[Neferchoirwen]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

I do hope that a Silm movie will be made (best of luck to you, Saraphim, I'm sure it'll be great!) but I'm glad at least I've read the book already and have been able to create my own images of everything (which I unfortunately did not do with FotR and TTT).

True, Narn i Hin Hurin has got everything... even romance! Incestuous, perhaps, but awww... didn't Turin and Nienor make such a lovely couple?

I would love to see the Lay of Leithian made into a movie even more, though, just because it's my favorite.

How about a Silmariliom mini series? For Hallmark? Hallmark gets as close to the books as they can get.

[Encaitare]

ARGH! I had a great list of links to Valar art, and just lost it all. So here it is again. As I was saying ere my ridiculous computer lost the whole thing, I see the Valar as mighty and intimidating yet kindly, and the Valier as beautiful yet strong and gentle. Since they apparently enjoy taking Elvish forms, that's how I would portray them. Here's a bunch of pics I found using a Google image search.

Varda (there are so many pretty ones of her out there!):

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo..._and_manwe.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mithra...ages/Varda.jpg

http://www.ginevra2000.it/Fantasy/Fairies/Lites1.jpg

Manwe:

http://www.mikeljanin.net/imagepages/Manwe.html

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo...inen/Manwe.jpg

Ulmo (so many cool ones!):

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo...h/sil-ulmo.jpg (my personal fave of Ulmo, I think this is the best I've seen anywhere)

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo...rland/ulmo.jpg

http://www.tlotr.com/fan_art/ulmo_dgovar.jpg

Yavanna:

http://www.mikeljanin.net/imagepages/Yavanna.html (I think this one's perfect for her)

Aule:

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo...kitin/Aule.jpg

http://img-fan.theonering.net/middle...s/aule_tns.jpg

Orome:

http://www.mikeljanin.net/imagepages/Orome.html

Irmo: --

Nienna:

http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/elgaladna/Nienna.JPG

http://img-fan.theonering.net/middle...enna_govar.jpg

Mandos: -- I didn't really see anything that struck my fancy.

Tulkas:

http://img-fan.theonering.net/middle...lkas_govar.jpg

Este:

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo...apiro/Este.jpg

Vaire: -- none

Vana: -- searching for this only found me, let's say, questionable material

Nessa:

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo...piro/Nessa.jpg

And let us not forget Morgoth, the Dark-Lord-formerly-known-as-Vala:

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo...owe/melkor.jpg

http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo.../challenge.jpg (Morgoth and Fingolfin)

Some good pictures can be found here: http://fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/valar.html

Hope some of these aided!

~Encaitare

[Child of the 7th Age]

You might enjoy reading the following article. It agrees with you that a "remake" will be done and suggests some things that will be involved with that.

Click here.

[Encaitare]

An interesting article, Child.

I can think of several actors who could have done as good a job portraying Gandalf: Sean Connery, Brian Blessed, Derek Jacobi, Anthony Hopkins, Michael Caine, Patrick Stewart

GAH! NO! This I wholeheartedly disagree with, at least the Sean Connery bit. And Patrick Stewart (wow, I just wrote "Steward" by accident... LotR..overload..). They're brilliant actors, but somehow I can't see them being Gandalf. Patrick Stewart just always makes me think Captain Picard, and probably always will.

But yes, a remake probably will be done. No doubt it will be great, and hopefully more true to the books, but I think it's a little early to be worrying a full remake just yet.

[Boromir88]

Nefer wrote:

How about a Silmariliom mini series? For Hallmark? Hallmark gets as close to the books as they can get.

I don't know about a Silmarillion mini series, I've always thought an LOTR mini series would be neat. Maybe one could make a mini series on the Sil, it might not get much ratings since there are definately not as many Tolkien readers as Orli fans, but I think it would be interesting, The Sil has a lot more "action" you might put it, but I think remembering the names, and lineage would just get too confusing, you can get confused by even reading it.

As for the LOTR mini series, this is what I thought would be neat, it would be based solely on the books, so you will have of course the book people watching it, yet now with PJ's movie it has dragged in more "orli fans" to read Tolkien so now they will see a mini series based on the books. I mean one with nothing cut out, no people, no events, no places cut out. So now people wouldn't have to fear the big 1000 page book and could see it in front of them, and would be getting the "knowledge of the books" something one couldn't get from the movies (no matter how good the movies were).

[Encaitare]

Maybe one could make a mini series on the Sil, it might not get much ratings since there are definately not as many Tolkien readers as Orli fans, but I think it would be interesting, The Sil has a lot more "action" you might put it, but I think remembering the names, and lineage would just get too confusing, you can get confused by even reading it.

Yeah, it's the kind of thing you definitely have to read multiple times before really understanding it. The first time through I was bored with a lot of it but just kept pressing on, and then through rereading it I've found it to be a great read and not *that* hard to understand. The names still get me sometimes, though... darnit, why do they all have to have names that sound alike??

As for the Orli fans... maybe we could offer good ol' Orli a minor role... one of Feanor's sons that no one remembers, for example. Maybe Amras. Seriously, though, if he was in it, it would spoil it for the "real" fans because then all the rabid fangirls would come and be all, "Oh mY gOd I liEk Am SuCh A tOlKeEn FaN i hAvE sEen tHe SiLrIoN (tHaT's wHaT iTs CaLlEd, RiTe?) aNd OrLaNdO bLoOm WaS liEk sOoO hOtT! OMG i Am sUcH a GeEk fOr LiEkInG tHiS bUt OrLi iS mAh BaBi..." and so on and so forth. (How do people type like that, nonstop?? It takes forever!)

[Morquesse]

I would like to see Frodo portrayed more courageously the way he is in the book. The movie made him kind of wimpy by comparison.

I agree. In the movie he is portrayed as a weak, hopeless, barely able to defend himself.....Thing. One thing I think would help is him all alone at the Ford, holding his sword, and saying "Go back to Mordor, and follow me no more!" I loved that part.

At the Ford, I wouldn't have Arwen OR Glorfindel. I would have Legolas. *Avoids tomatoes* Seriously. It would do two things: 1. give him more character than just a good-looking comic relief, 2. avoids having too many characters. I liked the way they did it in the cartoon, as wicked as it was. Plus, originally, for a second, Tolkien was going to have the same elf at the ford AND in the Fellowship.

I would also give Saruman a different name. His Elvish name? Something to avoid confusion of the two enemies.

Yeah, I can see a remake in like.....25 years. They'll need a new one for the new generation. the Sil....I don't see that coming soon, sorry. Maybe they would make, like, 20 different movies, but not in one clump.

Good discussion!

~M

[Boromir88]

Encaitare:

As for the Orli fans... maybe we could offer good ol' Orli a minor role... one of Feanor's sons that no one remembers, for example. Maybe Amras. Seriously, though, if he was in it, it would spoil it for the "real" fans because then all the rabid fangirls would come and be all, "Oh mY gOd I liEk Am SuCh A tOlKeEn FaN i hAvE sEen tHe SiLrIoN (tHaT's wHaT iTs CaLlEd, RiTe?) aNd OrLaNdO bLoOm WaS liEk sOoO hOtT! OMG i Am sUcH a GeEk fOr LiEkInG tHiS bUt OrLi iS mAh BaBi..." and so on and so forth. (How do people type like that, nonstop?? It takes forever!)

OMG...LMAO, now this is a true one here, one of the fangurls called in the "Salmonillion." I of course said, "I didn't know Tolkien wrote a book about fish, however he did have a lot of fin's in his story, is the Salmonillion only about all the Fin names?" Which is true, I mean Finrod, Finwe, GlorFINdel, Fingolfin, Finarfin...etc.

Morquesse:

At the Ford, I wouldn't have Arwen OR Glorfindel. I would have Legolas. *Avoids tomatoes* Seriously.

Don't worry I won't throw a tomato at you (crosses fingers lol), but I would have to disagree with you. I think Legolas already got more then enough credit for stuff he didn't do, slaying the troll in Moria, killing a mumak...etc, but that's my opinion on things.

[Saraphim]

Somewhere in America, a kid with a bad complexion and a limited social life is busily filling a secret notebook with plans for "Lord of the Rings -- The Right Way."

I think that writer is channeling me, only the notebook is entitled "The Silmarilion--Please don't let me screw this up"

Thanks Encaitare for the links! Most of my mental pictures are slightly based on pictures like those.

I was thinking of doing a made-for-tv special type thing, but I've settled (for the moment, nothing is set in stone, of course) for making it story by story and releasing them as movies. Like that it won't be done for a while, but that's the best way I can think of doing it.

[Encaitare]

one of the fangurls called in the "Salmonillion." I of course said, "I didn't know Tolkien wrote a book about fish, however he did have a lot of fin's in his story, is the Salmonillion only about all the Fin names?" Which is true, I mean Finrod, Finwe, GlorFINdel, Fingolfin, Finarfin...etc.

All I can say is "Wow" and shake my head in disturbance.

I've come up with a different idea for Orli, though. Let's have him play Luthien. She's supposed to be the most beautiful, and he's pretty enough. Who's with me?

Love the sig, Saraphim 42 indeed.

[The Only Real Estel]

I've come up with a different idea for Orli, though. Let's have him play Luthien. She's supposed to be the most beautiful, and he's pretty enough. Who's with me?

Why not? He has a hard enough time growing facial hair, so we wouldn't have to worry about that .

[rutslegolas]

well they could make a remake ,but i think they should make it more accurate with the books ,the minas tirth part especially.
and I would really like to see Prince Imrahil and his knights.