greatest of the maiar

[samwise8504]

we all know eonwe,sauron and ilmare are the greatest of the maiar but who does everyone think comes after them. im going to have to say olorin and osse.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

You may just be right. Add Melian to the list.

[Fingolfin II]

I'd say Sauron was the most powerful, but Olorin was the most wise. In the end, Gandalf's wisdom prevailed over Sauron's brute power, so he's definitely up there amongst the greatest of the Maiar. I think you are spot on, samwise, with putting Eonwe and Ilmare at the top, with Olorin and Osse following. Also I think that Eomer is right, by putting Melian up there also. I mean, her girdle kept out a lot of nasty enemies, including Ungoliant herself.

[The Perky Ent]

Well this is a big controversy, but for those people who think so, I'll say Tom Bombadil. But, since we really don't know what he is, I'll say Gothmog. He was a maiar, and a pretty powerful one. He commanded about as much power as Sauron, and was almost as powerful. Also, Arien, who guided the sun, as it wouldn't burn her. If the white hot intensity of the sun doesn't burn you, what does?

[Lachwen]

Let's not forget Tilion, the Maia of the Moon. Being an astronomy buff and (like Tilion himself) a lover of silver, he's definitely high on my list. And Uinen, the only one who can calm and restrain Ossë.

[samwise8504]

we missed out saruman as well he's pretty powerful

[The Perky Ent]

You mean, he was pretty powerful. After Gandalf breaks his staff and all of the stuff in that chapter, Curumo had little to no power. And I hate doing this, because the guy is cool, but probably at the end of the list would be Aiwendil, Radagast. I don't know about the Ithryn Luin, but I personally believe they're more powerful.

[Bombadil]

Hey dol! If old Tom was a Maia then no doubt he would be the greatest! But since that is not conclusive, I would have to say Osse. Any servant of Ulmo's who can help control a major portion of Arda deserves great credit!

By the way, I think Melian does join the list of the undisputed greats as Eomer said!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I suppose Melian goes unnoticed as she didn't show her power in such obvious ways as Gothmog, Osse or Olorin.

And as for Tom.....never a maia!

[Legolas]

Those Maiar mentioned in the story must be the greatest...at least they are some of the greatest, else they would not take such a role in the tales for the identities to become known.

[Groin Redbeard]

Eönwë was the banner-bearer and the herald of Manwë, and Chief of the Maiar along with Ilmarë. Eönwë was referred to as the "greatest of arms in Arda," meaning that he was the best with weapons and the most skilled in warfare.

When Manwë decided to heed the appeal, Eönwë was sent to Middle-earth to fight the War of Wrath, leading the Vanyar.

Most of the Maiar serve that Valar and stay in Valinor. Does that make Curumo (Saruman), Olórin (Gandalf), and Aiwendil (Radagast) sort of like the overseers of Middle Earth for Eönwë? I can't find any other Maiar who permanently stayed in Arda.

[Eönwë]

Yes I would agree with Eönwë (not being biast at all, by the way). He was the one that led the armies against Morgoth who is much more powerful thatn Sauron. Morgoth Bauglir (or Melkor, which was his name before hwe became evil) was a Valar, so it takes some power to get 'im!

[Ghazi]

Olorin

While he probably was not the most powerful he was certainly the most important to the history of Middle-Earth. That alone qualifies him to be considered the greatest Maia.

[Groin Redbeard]

I agree with Ghazi's post, with Olorin being the most significant, but Eönwë is definatly the champoin in arms for the Maiar.

Do you know why Olorin stayed in Arda with Curumo and Aiwendil?

[Nerwen]

Perhaps we need to define "greatest"?

[Galin]

Well 'greatest threads' seem to hinge on what one means by great of course, but regarding the text, Christopher Tolkien revealed the detail:

'The words in the published text concerning Eonwe, 'whose might in arms is surpassed by none in Arda', were an editorial addition, made in order to prepare for his leadership of the hosts of the West at the Great Battle'.' CJRT, Later Quenta Silmarillion

The text of LQS notes Eonwe as herald of Manwe, and Ilmare handmaid of Varda as chief of the Maiar as we know, and that there are many others without names among Elves and Men, but (thus noted among many others it would seem) 'great and fair was Melian', and wise was Olorin.

As an interesting aside perhaps, in Annals of Aman Este is said to be 'chief of the Maiar'. And in the typescript 'distinct from the amanuensis typescript of the whole work' -- thus distinguished as AAm* -- Nessa and Este are the 'highest among the Maiar' with contemporary emendations to this including the wife of Tulkas being 'Lea the Young' (so that the highest among the Maiar become Lea and Este). For the details of this text AAm* see Morgoth's Ring.

[Lalaith]

Interesting stuff Galin, thank you.

I would still nominate Melian as her girdle kept Morgoth at bay. If her power was enough to keep out the mightiest of the Ainur, I'd say that was pretty good going.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Perhaps we need to define "greatest"?

Good point Nerwen, but I'd feel more at ease if the each person told us his own opinion of what "greatest" means. After all, our own personal opinions is what makes the thread special.