Short Elves - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Raefindel · 08-06-2002, 08:16 PM

I have learned a lot from everyone here an the Downs. I've learned, among other things, that Elves DO sleep and that there was a bearded Elf and a Fat Elf and that there were Red-Headed Elves. Now, can anyone tell me if there are any SHORT Elves?

Kuruharan · 08-06-2002, 08:23 PM

It might be easier to say if you would define "short." Would this be short as compared with other Elves or with a Dwarf?

All Elves were taller than Dwarves, and most Men, but there were some men that were taller than some Elves. There were also variations in sizes among the Elves. King Thingol was the tallest of all the Children of Iluvatar, so all Elves were shorter than him.

Raefindel · 08-06-2002, 08:53 PM

Well, I would think it would be a matter of what does TOLKIEN consider short. Did he ever mention short elves in his writings?

Kuruharan · 08-06-2002, 08:55 PM

No.

Or at least very few of them were under 6 feet tall.

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

Raefindel · 08-06-2002, 09:28 PM

Well I learned something about King Thingol, anyway. Thank You, Kuruharan .

Tarthang · 08-06-2002, 09:30 PM

Well, in HoME 19 you can find out about stumpy, the elf whose legs ended getting removed from the knee's down.
But serriously though, I believe most elves were six feet or taller with most men being six feet and shorter (with the exception of the Edain).
To my mind the Noldor and Vanyar were the tallest of elves reaching a height around seven feet, with the Sindar being a few inches shorter and sylvan elves being shorter yet. Where the height of an elf is somewhat reflective of exposure to the light of Aman or amount of contact with those having had exposure to the light of Aman.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 08-07-2002, 01:42 PM

I agree with Tarthang. While Men are described as being varied in apperance (Numenoreans, Easterlings, Southrons), Elves are not. The only differences are the hair color. They were tall, about 6-7 feet.

Raefindel · 08-07-2002, 02:21 PM

Even the women? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Ithaeliel · 08-07-2002, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Very tall they were, and the Lady no less tall than the Lord...

Yep. Even the women [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

***Sharkû*** · 08-08-2002, 02:45 AM

"The Eldar of the Elder Days were also very tall. Galadriel, 'the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell,' was said to be man-high, but it is noted 'according to the measure of the Dúnedain and the men of old,' indicating a height of about six feet four inches." (UT, III, i, App.)
This makes the height of Elven women relative.

burrahobbit · 08-08-2002, 10:46 AM

How many women of the Eldar do tales tell of? Does that mean the tales that Tolkien wrote or the tales that the Eldar wrote?

Morgoth Bauglir · 08-08-2002, 10:51 AM

there are RED headed elves and FAT elves?ahh!

tell me more!

Legolas · 08-08-2002, 12:37 PM

Look at the "Hair Problem" thread for more info on the red-haired elves.

Raefindel · 08-08-2002, 08:36 PM

overweight elves

Dimaldaeon · 08-09-2002, 11:40 AM

What about bearded elves. I did notice one with quite dark stubble at the Last Allience.
I read somewhere that most elves were six and a half foot. In the movie they were six foot two inches. But the movie got all the heights wrong.

burrahobbit · 08-09-2002, 12:42 PM

Cirdan was bearded. Elves can grow beards once they get to their third stage of life. I don't know what that means.

piosenniel · 08-09-2002, 12:42 PM

I realize that some do not consider the Book of Lost Tales as authoritative canon, but in BoLt II in The Fall of Gondolin Tolkien writes:

Quote:

'Tis written in those days the fathers of the fathers of Men were of less stature than Men now are, and the children of Elfinesse of greater growth, yet was Tuor taller than any that stood there. Indeed the Gondothlim were not bent of back as some of their unhappy kin became,labouring without rest at delving and hammering for Melko, but small were they and slender and very lithe.

So, apparently there were short elves.

Raefindel · 08-09-2002, 12:49 PM

Interesting information Piosenniel, and Everyone. Thank You all for taking my silly curiosity seriouslly.

The Silver-shod Muse · 08-09-2002, 12:58 PM

Tolkien had something for tall beings, didn't he?

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] (At five nine, I almost feel like an elf now) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Raefindel · 08-09-2002, 01:14 PM

Yes, he seemed to, indeed.

I've always hoped I would out-grow this but I'm 36 and 5'even.

Halbereth Diagona · 08-10-2002, 09:36 AM

Oh...you do get redheaded elves.
Good, because my elf character Amanalkarion has red hair and I was wondering...they must be rare though. Even rarer than darkhaired elves..
In fotr, there was a sort of ginger haired guy in the last alliance who I think was an elf.
But short elves, yes definatley! I'm short and I'm an elf.
Hemhem...I am honestly....I think so anyway. But I'm a titch...I haven't had my growth spurt yet and all my mates are taller than me except 3. Not fair.

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: Halbereth Diagona ]

08-06-2002, 08:16 PM	#1
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Short Elves I have learned a lot from everyone here an the Downs. I've learned, among other things, that Elves DO sleep and that there was a bearded Elf and a Fat Elf and that there were Red-Headed Elves. Now, can anyone tell me if there are any SHORT Elves? __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

08-06-2002, 08:23 PM	#2
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,591	It might be easier to say if you would define "short." Would this be short as compared with other Elves or with a Dwarf? All Elves were taller than Dwarves, and most Men, but there were some men that were taller than some Elves. There were also variations in sizes among the Elves. King Thingol was the tallest of all the Children of Iluvatar, so all Elves were shorter than him. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

08-06-2002, 08:53 PM	#3
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Well, I would think it would be a matter of what does TOLKIEN consider short. Did he ever mention short elves in his writings? __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

08-06-2002, 08:55 PM	#4
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,591	No. Or at least very few of them were under 6 feet tall. [ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ] __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

08-06-2002, 09:28 PM	#5
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Well I learned something about King Thingol, anyway. Thank You, Kuruharan . __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

08-06-2002, 09:30 PM	#6
Tarthang Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Paths of the Dead Posts: 108	Well, in HoME 19 you can find out about stumpy, the elf whose legs ended getting removed from the knee's down. But serriously though, I believe most elves were six feet or taller with most men being six feet and shorter (with the exception of the Edain). To my mind the Noldor and Vanyar were the tallest of elves reaching a height around seven feet, with the Sindar being a few inches shorter and sylvan elves being shorter yet. Where the height of an elf is somewhat reflective of exposure to the light of Aman or amount of contact with those having had exposure to the light of Aman.

08-07-2002, 01:42 PM	#7
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	I agree with Tarthang. While Men are described as being varied in apperance (Numenoreans, Easterlings, Southrons), Elves are not. The only differences are the hair color. They were tall, about 6-7 feet. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

08-07-2002, 02:21 PM	#8
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Even the women? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

08-08-2002, 02:45 AM	#10
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	"The Eldar of the Elder Days were also very tall. Galadriel, 'the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell,' was said to be man-high, but it is noted 'according to the measure of the Dúnedain and the men of old,' indicating a height of about six feet four inches." (UT, III, i, App.) This makes the height of Elven women relative.

08-08-2002, 10:46 AM	#11
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	How many women of the Eldar do tales tell of? Does that mean the tales that Tolkien wrote or the tales that the Eldar wrote? __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

08-08-2002, 10:51 AM	#12
Morgoth Bauglir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 252	there are RED headed elves and FAT elves?ahh! tell me more!

08-08-2002, 12:37 PM	#13
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Look at the "Hair Problem" thread for more info on the red-haired elves. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

08-08-2002, 08:36 PM	#14
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	overweight elves __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

08-09-2002, 11:40 AM	#15
Dimaldaeon Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ireland & damn proud of it. Posts: 125	What about bearded elves. I did notice one with quite dark stubble at the Last Allience. I read somewhere that most elves were six and a half foot. In the movie they were six foot two inches. But the movie got all the heights wrong. __________________ Dear Saddam, Do not disunderestimate me.Yours G.W.Bush You're not drunk if you can still hold onto a blade of grass to stop yourself from falling off the face of the Earth

08-09-2002, 12:42 PM	#16
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	Cirdan was bearded. Elves can grow beards once they get to their third stage of life. I don't know what that means. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

08-09-2002, 12:49 PM	#18
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Interesting information Piosenniel, and Everyone. Thank You all for taking my silly curiosity seriouslly. __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

08-09-2002, 12:58 PM	#19
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Tolkien had something for tall beings, didn't he? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] (At five nine, I almost feel like an elf now) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

08-09-2002, 01:14 PM	#20
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Yes, he seemed to, indeed. I've always hoped I would out-grow this but I'm 36 and 5'even. __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

08-10-2002, 09:36 AM	#21
Halbereth Diagona Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mirkwood, duh. Why would I be anywhere else? Posts: 143	Oh...you do get redheaded elves. Good, because my elf character Amanalkarion has red hair and I was wondering...they must be rare though. Even rarer than darkhaired elves.. In fotr, there was a sort of ginger haired guy in the last alliance who I think was an elf. But short elves, yes definatley! I'm short and I'm an elf. Hemhem...I am honestly....I think so anyway. But I'm a titch...I haven't had my growth spurt yet and all my mates are taller than me except 3. Not fair. [ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: Halbereth Diagona ] __________________ HALBERETH DIAGONA I'm back! Kicks computer stupid thing for breaking down. Miss me? Didn't think so...